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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Right of access to public domain
Has been a law for over a hundred years in CA. Now that doesn't mean that it's been followed. Many years ago I filed a lawsuit based on that law. The
owners, who happened to be a famous Kennedy family lost their bid to develop the coastline when other groups followed my suit.
Today there is a golf course there (of course) and they provide public access but you would not see it cause it's back behind the clubhouse.
I hope the Mexican public wins out and continues to use the beaches etc. without interference as they have for decades.
After all, it is the livelyhood of many.
As far as roads go, that would be at the property owners discretion I would guess.
Access is one thing public roads quite another.
[Edited on 12-3-2006 by Sharksbaja]
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3533
Registered: 8-27-2003
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Re: land ownership
OK - I'm gonna ask what I suspect is a really stupid question: "Can't you just go to the 'recorder's office', or what ever it's called, and look at
the deed/title history?" Are these records public? (I think I can hear Bruce laughing).
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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ahhhh, Baja!
will I eventually mourn its demise, as I have so many, many places in the states???
money talks, bullchit walks.....how sad, how wrong!
Capt George
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Santiago
Yes you can in La Paz, its called Catastro.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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bajabeachbabe
Nomad
Posts: 150
Registered: 9-11-2006
Location: Loreto,
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Mood: Loving life
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Does anyone know if this project is the one at Ensenada Blanca or will it be a Puerto Escondido?
http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/2006/july/0714-01t.htm
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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the direction we're taking
This is going to be in Ensenada Blanca. No, nothing has broken ground even though the fall of 2006 has come and gone. All that's been installed has
been an imposing guard gate and a fencing off of the village's beach. The fence was cut by local politicians as it was literally starving the people
to death in the village. The people of Ensenada Blanca have been living off the sea for generations and in short order they were cut off from it.
The dispute is that the fence is located on federal land and the access road has been in existence for over 30 years. The imposing gate has done
nothing more than intimidate the guests and workers of the two hotels who have been in Ensenada Blanca for years. These hotels have from the
beginning provided good jobs in an enviornment that has been beneficial and dignifying for the people of the village. The Villa Group not only wants
the land that the hotels are on, they also want to rid themselves of that eyesore group of shacks that is the village itself, "at all costs".
This is the direction that Loreto has taken and will follow. Its heartbreaking to see it.
I wonder what the future is of the guys at the marina who are literally fishing for food every morning. The folks who live near Puerto Escondido can
no longer fish for their dinner off the pier there so it should only be a matter of time until the downtown group can no longer catch their dinner
then walk home with it. I wonder where the families who are selling out are going. They can't afford to buy another piece of land within walking
distance of town because its all claimed. Everything with water, on the water or with a view is going to be taken and the people will end up watering
lawns and cleaning toilets. Then they'll get on a Villas Group or a Loreto Bay microbus for a 45 minute ride north to the barrios where no hay luz, y
no hay agua.
The personality of Loreto is what brought us here in the first place. Small, laid back, manuoso, rustico, and rough around the edges. The authentic
villages to our south will feature Armani shoestores, Ann Taylor, The Body Shop..hell it will look like a mall. Eventually, and it already is, the
triteness will spill over to town and we'll lose our roosters, our anuncias, the cruisers on the malecon, the dirtbikes during race season, fishtails
sticking up out of pickup trucks, it will lose the personality we've come to love.
Some future huh?
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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interesting to see this thread come back...
Pam....
You and many others who love Loreto will work to seek some sort of balance. I am just glad the LBC schtufffph and "All of the tourists covered with
oil...." and similar obscenities and projects are OUT of town....
Loretanos may be mellow and laid back folks, but I imagine they'll also work to maintain access to their livelihood and their sense of community.
I've made several friends this last year who willing to speak up for their community, the (de)evolving water situation, beach access, and other
concerns.
Who was it that said ~ never doubt that a few determined individuals can change the world, for that, in fact is the only thing that ever has".... ? ?
(I know I screwed that up... but the jist is there...)
Change is as inevitible as death.... (gawd, that sounds bleak, but it is true... or so I'm told).... We can seek (and speak up for) reason
and the things we value and love.
Yes, by all means, cut that damned fence! That politician would get my vote... (if I could vote, that is....)
Better get down ~ before I slip off of ~ my soapbox...!!!
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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Pam, you tell it exactly as I see it. Loreto is not an ideal place for the high end tourist looking for white sand and balmy breezes. There is some
consolation to the endless wind and chilly temperatures, and I hope they cause some seekers of the perfect life to think twice. !Que tengan mucha
arena en las margaritas!
 
edit: the lol was too mean, I wanted only to chide them gently, no matter how deep my feelings on this issue.
[Edited on 1-12-2007 by Paula]
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Phil C
Senior Nomad
Posts: 564
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: N. San Diego County/ Loreto Centro/Lopez Mateos
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I'v noticed that Loreto Bay dosn't bring thier potential clients to thier project during the "warmer" months of late summer. Haven't noticed what
they do to stop the wind in the wintertime.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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In 1972 when Tio Don O;Niel and I bought Property on the Beach , we were requested by the Alverez Sisters to come to Mexico City to be Approved
before they would agree to the Sale.
When I started building, a Party with a Lot in the Rear of Rancho Sonrisa, tried to force a 3 Meter Access across my Property to the Beach. It went to
Court and the Person lost the Case_ Beach Access cannot be forced through Private Property.
A Beach Concession can be obtained for Protection of the Beach in Front of an owned Property- Vehicles can be Prohibited but Not Walking/Fishing
People. The La Pinta Hotel has had such a Concession for many years.
Times are changing, laws are changing but from my visits recently, it appears that many of the old tme Mexicano People are getting tired of the
Americans and Canadians coming into the Communities, using their Wealth to try to force changes in their Lifestyles--Typical Ugly Americans-.
Those people and Developers with Money and Their own Ideals for what "They Think is good for the Mexicano People" sometimes lack "Common Sense" or the
Ability to see the Damage they are Doing.
Skeet/Loreto
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Funny thang is
We can see it years before it becomes reality.
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abreojos
Nomad
Posts: 168
Registered: 2-9-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and jane
Thanks for posting the info, Don. I was avoiding it, I guess, because I didn't want to get myself all wound up again. Since I'm the nomad that told
him about the Notri closings, I will say that berms were built across the roads that accessed the rocky beach there. It is purely to keep people off
the beaches. I was mystified why some rancher (it's marked "Rancho Notri, propiedad privada, prohibido entrar") would deny access to his land.
Everywhere I have traveled in Mexico over the last 30 years the Mexican people have been welcoming, sharing people. No trespassing signs were
extremely rare. I asked a city official. Turns out "Rancho Notri" is Loreto Bay. And most of the rest of the beaches all the way to Ligui belong to
Loreto Bay, according to the official I talked to. I see barbed wire fences and gates going up on every road to the beach along that stretch--though
Juncalito and Rattlesnake remain open for now. It's the old "I own it and now I don't want anyone stepping on my land" attitude. The official said
the city had been afraid that was going to happen but he was surprised it had happened so soon. They can't do that, he said. And he would be talking
to the mayor. My hopes are small. Most of these beaches are rocky--not real tourist friendly, but one could launch a kayak, take a swim or a
snorkel, fish from shore (and not catch much) or just pull up a rock and watch the sea. "Rancho Notri" has also blocked access to the west side of the
highway and a great canyon leading into the sierra gigantes. I don't understand it. It's greedy, egotistical, and mean. There I go, getting myself
wound up again. |
Unfortunatly, to protect yourself and your property it is required that you mark the boundries post it to keep other people from trying to steal it.
We have the Green family camped on the property they claim is theirs. It is out near the gas station across from Cosco here in Cabo. It is the last
streach of undeveloped beach. I have been advised to do so with mine also and I am sure Loreto Bay has been advised to do the same.
[Edited on 1-13-2007 by abreojos]
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Loreto is not Normally "Windy and Cool" as it is now! The El Nino affect is causing this Weather. Having been around Loreto since 1968, living there
17 years full time, my wife and I keeping Daily Weather records I can attest to the Fact that Loreto has Great Weather most of the Time.
For information; The large Property just North of Hotel Oasis where Tio Don Lived belongs to the Ortega Family. It still has the Oldest structure
Stand as well as Tio's Trailer. Mrs. Ortega gave Tio permission to live on that Property for many years. She has turned down many offers to Develop
that property as well as "Rancho Notri".Mrs. Ortegas family are very capable and Honest and will do well with their Property.
The one and only sure way to know about Liens on Property is to go to the Supreme Court Clerk in La Paz, have a Notoria do a Title Search. I had this
done on each Property I bought and Sold.
It is well to remember that if you want to be successful in living in Baja Sur, that you Learn and accept the ways of the Mexican People.
It is not the States!
Skeet/Loreto
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I as well as most of the people I talk to came to Baja originally because it was less developed than the mainland. My family used to come to the
Guaymas /San Carlos area begining in the late 50's and finally sold out there due to the overdevelopment. It seems only yesterday that we camped at
Escondido, South of Loreto, in really primitive conditions on the flats. Then some of the lucky people found Bahia de los Muertos which was as close
to Paradise as anyplace I could imagine. So we traveled around Baja and fouond some places that were acceptable but we could see that some of them
were ripe for development and we had a tendency to shy away from those places for that very reason.
We ended up at San Lucas Cove as we figured that the area of Santa Rosalia would be the very last place on the sea to develop. With the old mine
falling apart and the dumps and junkyards as you enter town, we assumed that no one would have pictures of high rises and stupid housing developments.
So we were feeling pretty smug until out of the clear blue some character from California shows up and tries to buy the trailer park property. When
he could not get that job done, he buys a semi-developed trailer park just at the edge of the cove and now seems bound and determined to wreck this
place. He doesn't seem capable of doing some small type of thing on a slow basis that would slowly alter the community and be absorbed into the
existing culture and infastructure, but instead is trying to push through a big development with over 100 residences. I doubt that he has the ability
to even recognize the beauty of the area and only sees it as a piece of property that might be ripe for and eventual rape.
So the looseness and lack of structure that attracted us all here must have a recognized weakness that would allow some money-hungry developer to do
the damage they seem so hell bent on doing.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Pescador! Sorry to hear. Good luck.
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