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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Save the bull for something else
and other animals from cruelty sports. Maybe I would go see a bullfight if they were like this:
minimatador
Now that's entertainment!
Don't you think dog fights are much more entertaining, and you can get close to the action! (drool)
I'll bet some Nomad(s) would not partake of that. Why? Do they have and like dogs?
Animals getting hurt for the pleasure of humans? Que divertivo para sadico!
Oh, don't bother to reply here if you like to see bulls teased and hurt then killed. Tis only fair someone defends the animals(and some
others' views).
So it is cultural, so what, so were the Gladiator events. You know, lions and tigers....and men.
Man those recessive genes are hard to shake!
End of flame.
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Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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People who even think that dog fighting is good or entertaining, are garbage.
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bajadogs
Super Nomad
Posts: 1076
Registered: 8-28-2006
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Thanks for that Sharks! I just downloaded an old cartoon "Ferdinand the Bull" for my daughter. Ferdinand refuses to fight in the ring, preferring to
sit down and smell the flowers. An old classic.
Dennis, damn straight!!!
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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so are you proposing to outlaw hunting and fishing....that too is a pretty unfair fight.....just curious how far you're willing to go to protect the
animals...
Zac
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Trolling for Bull
Until now, I hadn't noticed anyone launching into any diatribes in support or defense of Bull-Fighting so I'm assuming that there's just a little
pot-stirring going on.
There are numerous examples of "sport" or "entertainment" among the world's cultures that I don't understand or embrace. Bullfighting is certainly
one of those. I've never been to one or seen one and have no desire to. However, I accept that they have a long tradition among some cultures
(including Mexico) and are embraced to this day.
Bajaboy has a valid point. Where do you draw the line ? By the same standard, animal hunting is cruel, too. For that matter, the slaughter of
animals for food purposes is a pretty gruesome business.
It has to be enough to simply refuse to participate in those activities we find objectionable, report them where they are illegal and make known our
objections when queried.
I DO have an old friend (Nisei) who was a Matador in his youth. Nicest guy you'd ever meet.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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It's not just about killing an animal
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
so are you proposing to outlaw hunting and fishing....that too is a pretty unfair fight.....just curious how far you're willing to go to protect the
animals...
Zac |
To me the act of inflicting pain and death for sheer spectartor pleasure is what strikes an unappealling chord. I'm against the idea of cheering
collectively on bloodletting and it bothers my conscience. Humans are obviously more intelligent than bulls. They might get lucky once and awhile but
let's face it, we take advantage of their stupidity by fooling them with red fabric and fancy footwork..
That you would compare fish and bulls is fair I suppose to some but to me they are leagues away in terms of "entertainment value". Is it a moral
issue? I guess that depends on how you interpret the sport to begin with.
Some kill and eat dogs too but I'm against that also.
If you kill it you best eat it. It bugs me when cats kill small animals for sheer pleasure or instinct.I feel just as strongly about fish bycatch. It
should be illegal in most cases to waste fish.
Now we will hear how they eat the animal later. Gawd, I hope so.
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Nomads\' Sunsets
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
To me the act of inflicting pain and death for sheer spectartor pleasure is what strikes an unappealling chord. |
So, how do you feel about sportfishing? 
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I knew that was the next question so I waited. I think fishing for the purpose of acquiring food is part of how we managed to survive as a race.
If you mean sportfishing to capture fish for sheer pleasure, I have mixed feelings really. Your point obviously being that those animals are teased
and fooled and probably distressed. I don't like it, but it's hard for me to equate the two. The act of poking objects into an animal seems like some
kind of ugly inhumane way to peeoff the animal so it can be intentionally fooled and hurt again. Sportfishing misses that step. Plus they usually
return the animal to live if they practice catch and release. Do I think everyone should go out and catch their limits if they have a freezer full at
home and will end up giving it away to anyone. No.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
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Viva Mulege!
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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The bulls are eaten. I would rather be a bull running free in the fields,then a steer who spends his life in a feed lot; before it's demise. 
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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You mean...like... hooks?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
The act of poking objects into an animal seems like some kind of ugly inhumane way to peeoff the animal so it can be intentionally fooled
and hurt again. Sportfishing misses that step. |
What would you call a sport which leaves an animal alive to relive the experience?
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Interesting post Sharks.
By the way, are you watching the Super Bowl? Love those high flying players when they are hit on a dead run! It always touches me when they are hauled
of the field to the applause of the audience.
I would suppose that you also think Tyson went over the edge with Hollyfield? Seen any good bouts lately, or do you think the good days are over now
that Tyson is gone? I love to hear the clarity of Mohamad Allahe as he tries to speak now a days.
Did you see the spectacular crash in the last Indi 500? Amazing, end over end flip!
Did you catch "Shock and Awe"? Spectacular video! Spectacular!! One of the most viewed programs in history!! Great prep, lots of flags everywhere,
lots of high fives!!
Now I personally think that the fastest growing spectator sport in America, Ultimate Fighting, has a ring that is way too big. But that may be
personal perspective. Maybe a matter of taste.
I personally dropped out of wrestling during the reign of Georgeus George. Now that was pre-WWW and where they took the sport.
Now Survivor, that's another story. Watching those scantily clad, poor buggers, struggle for survival and $1,000,000 has lost most of it's appeal with
the advent of the Japanese programs where players routinely fall on their crotches on some balance beam they are supposed to cross.
I have missed the evening news lately, and thus my daily hit of maddness and mayhem.
My brother once encountered a rabid Vegitarian, Berkley bred, militant type, who criticized him for ordering his hamburger. He offered a deal, "I stop
eating beef, if you become Jainest. The Jainests won't eat anything unless it falls dead from the tree, and no fare shaking the tree.
The last is a bit off point, as you are flaming over the use of animals for blood sport and entertainment. It is however a pretty good story no?
I happen to believe that human beings are not very noble. There is good evidence to support the conclusion that human beings are are genocidal by
NATURE. Given this propensity for violence, I am always pleased to see that there are forms of entertainment that channel this aggression. Better a
bull than a Mullah, from my perspective.
Now one can argue that blood sports actually encourage aggressive behavior, this may be so. I have not read the literature on that one and there may
be nomads who can clarify this issue.
I appreciate your thoughtful post. By the way, seen any good slapstick comedy lately?
Iflyfishwhennotcontemplatingviolence
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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There is just as bad going on in our own culture. Our local conservative cable company here airs a network where if you see video of a beautiful wild
animal, you only have to wait a moment to see it die.
The worst of the bunch are the "christian" sportsmen who leave food and garbage in bear country for a few weeks, then hide in a tree and when the bear
comes they wound it with an arrow. When it has had plenty of time to suffer and die, they track it by its blood loss and have their picture taken
while gasping "Oh thank you JESUS what a beautiful animal." They are literally shaking with blood lust.
It is just the opposite of "proving you're a man".
I believe that bull fighting is in decline. There is every evidence that meat hunting with inferior weapons is on the rise.
Not cool.
Yes I fish, but I stop when I have what I can use, and I kill them as fast as I can when I catch them. Leaving them flopping in the bottom of the
boat to suffocate seems torturous.
dos centavos
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Sure Dave, what's the difference if that's what you are trying to do. It would be unfair to repeatedly hook the same fish.
When do you call it a sport ? That is what you are talking about, pure sport right, not fodder for the table?
I gotta go to work. I'll think about what you said while I am filleting fish.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Buzzbee International Newsletter
Dear Members; You all knew we would be catching some flack from all over with the announcement of our Second Annual Buzzbee Hummingbird Tournament.
This one, June 12 thru 16 in Panama has lit up more boards than I could have guessed.
I expected a lot of noise from the Audubon people, a lot of bird huggers but Ducks Unlimited? Come on!! And the billfish people. I know I have had
to mention some striking similarities between our tournaments and theirs in a few of my flyers and editorial pieces.
When they jump on us I send them the standard stuff in reply; a copy of our Certificate of Standardization for our mist nets and our scales. They
all know we are after the smallest bird, not the largest and though our prey might be different in that respect, we follow the same kinds of game
protection practices they employ — at times we exceed them. For example we allow no mist netting within 50 feet of a known nesting site.
I have been very clear and vocal with these groups. Yes, some birds are injured, killed in the nets. Yes, some birds are killed, harmed, eaten by
raptors, shrikes, even spiders when tournament entrants can’t get to the nets quick enough. To the billfish tournament groups I submit that we lose
far fewer birds than they lose billfish (per tournament).
The fishing people have harangued me to death about some things:
A.. Catch and Release, Catch and Release. We release every bird that’s unharmed, able to fly. Always have, Always will.
B. Charitable Contributions. All proceeds of Buzzbee Tournaments International go to charities chosen by the board at our annual meeting in October
of each year. In 2001, our first year, we were able to give some $68,000 to several worthwhile causes around the globe.
C. Animal Protection. All the billfish organizations claim that their tournaments aid the fishery, help the fish. I don’t know how that can be.
How does catching (harming) fish help the fishery, help the fish? The charity dollars go everywhere except back into the fishery to grow more fish.
It seems to me that if you are successful at promoting fishing for billfish, more fish will be caught, killed, injured. The greater your success, the
more fish you kill, injure.
Members, take heart. I will continue to keep the record straight with these groups. I’ll update them each time we add another protection service.
In February I alerted them about our new rules concerning mandatory net alarms, weighing area enclosure standards, updated feeder placement
regulations (including allowable nectar formulae).
Until next time, “Find the Wee One, Win the Big One”, keep the Bees Buzzin.
Osprey
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2637
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
Member Is Offline
Mood: wait and see
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Who's up for a nice friendly round of goat pulling?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rChy0zXR-g&NR
BTW, thanks Sharks, for starting this discussion of comparative ethics in another thread. I'd like to keep the other one restricted to El Juli &
other matadors. Like I said, I respect your views whether or not I may share them.
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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What a bunch of crap.
If it causes pain or distress to an animal, just for your personal edification, it puts you into a catagory of , " human sans understanding or
compassion ". How can you love your dog if you have no feeling for a fish?
Bow-hunters are the worst. Lite-tackle fisherman come next.
If you have to kill something....kill it. Dont torture it.
Oh please, dont give me the crap of " fisherman as provider ". What thrills the fisherman is the bent rod, the tug-of-war. The feeling of
dominance when the fish is landed.
Good for all you fishermen. Catch'em and eat'em. But, dont think for a minute that you havn't inflicted pain on an animal.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Dennis, pretty strong stuff. Are you just trying to bait us? Pun intended. I'll bite! You just pulling our long chains? How deeply do you feel
about killing/keeping/torturing animals/birds/fish? You will be starting a very long and interesting thread if you are on the square. I'll be the
first to say that I disagree with your view of hunting/fishing practices, methods, morals about as far as I could stretch your argument.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Osprey ---
Disagree with my views if you will but, my morals are mine. I'm not here to argue my position on a decent application of humane values. Only to
state mine. What is your choice, Osprey? To be a heartless killer or a heartfelt killer?
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Dennis:
I predict it is only a matter of a very short time before someone fills in these blanks.
Spiritually speaking, God said that men will dominate the Earth and all the speciaes of the land and sea and that they would serve as food and
as by products such as cloths.. Adam and Eve were handed animal skins as clothing.. So this be at peace with nature and all the animals is truly just
emotions talking. You will find that when the going gets tough, the tough go eat, what ever is on the table, even if it is a slaughtered
bull.
Wow, it took longer than I thought. SoCalAl has stepped over the line. 02062007
[Edited on 2-3-2007 by vgabndo]
[Edited on 2-6-2007 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Aw, c'mon vag........... Why don't you fill in the blanks.
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