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BajaDave
Junior Nomad
Posts: 76
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Paying to camp at Playa La Gringa?? Don't!
Many of us have enjoyed camping at La Gringa on the water's edge for many years. Playa La Gringa is in the ZOFEMAT, defined as the area 20 meters
inland from the ordinary high water mark (OHWM) of the ocean/sea, and therefore is owned by no one man and is for the benefit and use of the people.
Access to this land must not be denied.
Occasionally, someone will try to collect a fee for camping there, and lately signs and fences have been erected to see to it that you don't mistake
this as a place where you can camp or enjoy the beach for free anymore. While I understand that a concession can be granted to allow someone to use
the beach for money making purposes, i.e. construction and rental of bungalows, etc., it does not allow anyone to charge admission to BE on the beach
or use it for recreation, or to deny access to that beach without payment.
My uncle and his Mexican family have been going there for years to camp, fish, swim and just relax for weeks at a time. It is one of their favorite
places in all of Baja to camp. This year, they were approached and asked to pay by an individual who claimed to own the property. Below is an
excerpt of a letter he sent to me describing the chain of events set in motion as they refused to pay him, knowing full well the beach belongs to all
the people of Mexico.
*********
The same type of speculation is obvious at the B'LA. Lots of fences at La Gringa. I think you got the idea from the fotos. The signs on the near shore
fences are conveniently placed to indicate that the beach is private property and the 'collector' has collected so many $5 bills over the last year
that I think he actually believes his own BS. He was told by Dolores (I stayed back in all the conversations) that there was no way he was getting
anything from us as we knew the truth about the property. About the third day he was tired of warning Dolores and went for the police. Fortunately
right after he left for town the Army came through and Dolores waved them to stop and she talked to the 'commander' who verified all we believed about
the federal zone and said to send the 'collector' and any other would be officials to the military base to get 'set straight' and said they would also
speak to the the Delegation of B'LA in town. So Dolores was firm when the police showed up. There were two of them in uniform with their patrol car
and the 'collector'. They acted a bit more reticent than the 'collector' but said that we were on private property. I assumed this was a weak defense
for their paisano the 'collector' and or ignorance of the federal zone which would be harder to believe. Dolores started right in on them with a
speech that would have put a smile on Barack Obama, the high point of which was her finger pointed to the sky and saying "the constitution is the
supreme law of the land", (a direct quote from her US citizenship study book). They wanted her to go with them to the military base but she said she
didn't think the military needed any help. About two hours later the 'collector' came back alone and said he was submitting to higher authority and by
the way 'they' send their salutations to Dona Dolores. I still can't believe he was faithful to the second part of the msg! Then in a state of true
corruption asked Dolores not to interfere with his negocios (enganando) while we were there! He remained contemptable to the last, calling me the
Gringo that thinks he owns the beach and that the beach is Mexican and Gringos need to pay, blah blah blah. It is sad to see how twisted reasoning can
become because of greed and guilt. At least one camper packed up after three days or so saying he had had enough of the BS. The night before we left,
I reversed the signs on the fences. I plan to post to a forum giving people a heads up that are headed for La Gringa.
***************
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AmoPescar
Senior Nomad
Posts: 835
Registered: 7-15-2006
Location: North San Diego County
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Mood: Need a Fish Taco and a Pacifico!
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THANKS FOR THR GOOD INFO DAVE!!!
Now I wonder how many will still keep paying??? It will probably be like the traffic shakedowns...they'll just pay to save the trouble!!
Amo 
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4baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1339
Registered: 9-4-2003
Location: morro bay ca
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i too was tired of paying up and down the coast when it is obvios that you are camping on fed land so i looked into it a little more and this is what
i learned. when it comes down to it they cannot charge you for camping on fed land(the beach) BUT they can charge you for going through there property
to get to that beach. this last jan. i told the people that charge at punta diablo that i wanted to see proof that they owned the land there before i
pay any tom dick and harry that deside that they need beer money and charge me camping fees. they brought me the documentation of ownership and now i
gladly pay the right persons. la gringa has a easement that goes through the property to get to the other propertys to the north so they cant charge
to use the road but can charge if you camp above the mean high tide line near the beach above fed playa.
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PabloS
Nomad
Posts: 187
Registered: 4-8-2003
Location: North central AZ
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Anyone know where I can get some good counterfeit Lincoln's? I need a La Gringa fix. 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Pablo .....
Your printer is full of them.
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cabokid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 32
Registered: 10-16-2004
Location: San Deigo, Escondido
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La Gringa payment
30 years of camping there myself I usually pay when asked if I feel the fee is reasonable . I think it is worth it if they the keep the place clean.
Alot of times these locals are a wealth of information and ack as a watchdog when you are gone( if you pay ) I know they don't legally have a right
but is it really worth it for a few bucks. Besides the most problems I have in Baja is with the americans that buy or lease all the best beaches then
put up there signs with all the rules for "there beach " No Motorcycle -Fireworks- Fires -ect. The worst is in Cabo where the Americans just buy the
whole dam coastline and then close of all roads to the beaches and block off the washes with bolders . So where is the Mexican law for there right to
beach access. The old rule still applies down there " the man with the most gold makes the rules" Thats just the way it is , won't change never
will, so why get all upset and just go with it and drink more Pacifico and relax.
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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La gringa
Was there two years ago,pay the guy stay for two days,when I left I even give the guy that lives in the trailer my left over food,?I think I will go
back to Bola and ask for my food back(stupid me)  
PS. Go Bajanomadpower....si se puede.
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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bahiamia
Nomad
Posts: 143
Registered: 12-16-2004
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
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Thought I would check with the Island Visitor's office here in town to inquire about this matter. The fellow there said that La Gringa is "Propiedad
Privada", so the owner would then be able to charge when that is the case. I'll try to find out more info, but this is the initial response that I
got.
[Edited on 2-17-2007 by bahiamia]
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
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Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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Please remind me NEVER to mess with Dolores !!!! (unless I need a strong negotiator ~ on MY side  )
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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BajaDave
Junior Nomad
Posts: 76
Registered: 9-2-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bahiamia
Thought I would check with the Island Visitor's office here in town to inquire about this matter. The fellow there said that La Gringa is "Propiedad
Privada", so the owner would then be able to charge when that is the case. I'll try to find out more info, but this is the initial response that I
got.
[Edited on 2-17-2007 by bahiamia] |
There's no such thing as a privately owned beach in Mexico. That's the point of this post. ZOFEMAT (Federal Zone) = OHWM to 20 meters inland.
Method of measurement where slopes are involved seems to be the only questionable part of the equation, as different gov't agents will give different
answers, and the law is a bit ambiguous on the matter.
Note also that historical easements are in most respects as good as lawfully recorded ones in Mexico. Much like here in the U.S..
Also, I understand that any/every owner of land adjacent to ZOFEMAT must provide a point of access to the zone abutting his land to the public. Note
that it needn't be marked, but if a landowner is asked where/how one may reach the zone, it's my understanding that he cannot deny/block access. Now
I don't know the specifics enough to say whether this allows him to charge for that access, but my guess is the courts would deem this as hindering or
even blocking access to some, which would be illegal.
Part of the point of this post was to demonstrate the ingnorance and even the complicity among even law enforcement agents and others in power, so
don't take the word of someone at the Islands Visitor's office as gospel, as they are in fact dead wrong.
I think the "it's only 5 dollars" argument is, as Amo eludes to, synonomous with paying the mordida to the officer for an infraction. Sure, it may be
handy for you at the time, but it just makes it harder/worse for everyone else who follows you. Note also that 5 dollars times 21 days is over 100
bucks, no small change for lots of us with just enough money for the gas and food to take our families on a nice camping trip to the beach.
Spread the word.
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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Dave is absolutely right. It is the law;but just try too tell that to the MONKEY at the gate.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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La Gringa fees---------
I have camped at La Gringa, or close by to the west, at least 35 times over the past 30 years, but I only was asked to "pay" about 3 times, and then
it was $5 a night per vehicle. But I admit it has been about 8 years since I camped there. The guy lived pretty close by and he kept the beach clean
and provided trash cans at the usual campsites. We "struck a deal" with him to pay $5 a night for the "site", rather than per vehicle as often we
had 5 plus vehicles, all 4x4's able to go anywhere on the beach we wanted to. He also provided us with rudimentary security when we were out at sea
fishing, which was almost every day. To us we were paying for a "service", and did not mind it at all. We NEVER had any problems with petty theft,
or anything else bad, for that matter, and we never locked our vehicles.
Clear back in the late 50's and 60's I can remember paying $5 a night to camp on the beach at San Felipe, just south of town (within walking distance
of down town). They provided trash pickup, brackish water showers, rudimentary pit toilets, and security (or so we believed). We gladly paid the
price for a prime spot on the water front.
In over $50 years I have NEVER paid any Mordida that I was aware of, and never will.
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Bob H
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5867
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: San Diego
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Baja, it seems, just ain't what it used to be, huh?
The SAME boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you are made of NOT the circumstance.
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bahiamia
Nomad
Posts: 143
Registered: 12-16-2004
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
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I went out to La Gringa a couple of weeks back to ask about camping fees, to takes pictures and such. What they said is along the lines of what you
mentioned, Barry A. That $5 camping fee also includes trash pickup and someone keeping an eye on things.
I am wondering now what specifically differentiates La Gringa from all the other camp spots that charge for camping, not only along the shores here,
such as Daggett's, Archelon, La Ventana, etc... but also North along the coast to San Felipe, South at Concepcion, Requeson and points beyond... is
it being advised that people not pay at those places either?
[Edited on 2-18-2007 by bahiamia]
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Bob H
Quite an understatment!
The charging for beach game has been going on as long as I have been going to Baja.........The guys doing the charging know it against Mexican law to
make those charges on the Federal zone.............They just do it because it is so easy so separate the gringo from his money............What the
hey! it is only money.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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mckayshrimp
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 2-17-2007
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camping La Gringa
I have been camping La Gringa for years and it is one of the most beautiful and underused beaches on the Baja that I have seen. There has been someone
there trying to collect and they were all scamming the unwary. But the new 'collector' is a real in your face piece of work and what he is doing is
pure deception and THERE IS NO SERVICE PROVIDED if you do pay. He will have a different speech for whatever resistance he meets. The one that got a
laugh from me was "well Mexicans can camp here free but not Gringos" as if there are separate laws in Mexico. Not all Mexico or Mexicans are corrupt.
Those not resisting are part of the problem. Of course if it comes down to your life or your money vote Libertarian.
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1628
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bahiamia
I went out to La Gringa a couple of weeks back to ask about camping fees, to takes pictures and such. What they said is along the lines of what you
mentioned, Barry A. That $5 camping fee also includes trash pickup and someone keeping an eye on things.
I am wondering now what specifically differentiates La Gringa from all the other camp spots that charge for camping, not only along the shores here,
such as Daggett's, Archelon, La Ventana, etc... but also North along the coast to San Felipe, South at Concepcion, Requeson and points beyond... is
it being advised that people not pay at those places either?
[Edited on 2-18-2007 by bahiamia] |
I believe the federal zone is only about 70 feet from the high water mark so at Daggets and Archelon you are camping on their private property.
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Bajagypsy
Super Nomad
Posts: 1416
Registered: 8-31-2006
Location: BahÃa Asuncion BCS
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Just my opinioin, but here in Saskatchean, there is no place to camp for $5., that has the view of the ocean, is warm and has pacifico's. I would
gladly pay that amount. A night camping here is around $20.00 in an overfull campground, and your lucky if you have a few trees. You can here your
neighbours fart, and fight. I would take the $5 camping on the ocean over what we have offered here.
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bahiamia
Nomad
Posts: 143
Registered: 12-16-2004
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
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Now as it comes to mind, when we used to camp at Playa Coyote, and Playa Burro down in Bahia Concepcion, (and pay), I remember people mentioning that
they could charge there because they had a "Concesion":
"Instrumentos jurídicos que autorizan la legal ocupación de la Zona Federal Marítimo Terrestre:
CONCESIÓN:
Es el título que otorga SEMARNAT para el uso, aprovechamiento o explotación de la Zofemat, para uso exclusivo y por un tiempo preciso. (Puede ser
prorrogable)."
Perhaps in La Gringa have the same?
[Edited on 2-18-2007 by bahiamia]
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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In theory, maybe
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaDave
defined as the area 20 meters inland from the ordinary high water mark (OHWM) of the ocean/sea, and therefore is owned by no one man and is for the
benefit and use of the people. Access to this land must not be denied.
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The beaches are actually owned by the government and controlled by its military. People may think they have access
rights but the government/military can select or restrict access at any time, anywhere.
And access doesn't mean camping or vehicles. It simply means walking access.
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