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Cypress
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Don Jorge has pretty much said it like it is!
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Don Alley
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New Rates Coming?
email circulationg in Loreto:
| Quote: |
PTO. ESCONDIDO RAMP FEE UPDATE
As most of you know, we've been working with Singlar in an attempt to get the rates reduced for the ramp and fuel dock in Pto. Escondido. As of
February 13, the proposed rate reduction by the Singlar director for our area has been approved by a vote of all Singlar Directors in Mexico City.
The next and hopefully final step is for the Singlar Directors to meet with the head of Fonatur and the Mexican Secretary of Tourism in Mexico City.
The Secretary and Fonatur must approve the new Singlar proposed rates. This reduction will affect ALL Singlar operations in Mexico, not just Pto.
Escondido.
Nautica Escalera marinas, including Pto Escondido, are currently owned by the Mexican government and managed by Singlar. Any changes to any part of
the operation, including fees, must be approved by Fonatur and the Secty. of Tourism. This is equivalent to us asking a State to reduce their park
fees. It will take time to get this instituted. The current time frame that we were given is approximately two more weeks, at which time the newly
proposed fees could be approved or rejected. Singlar and only Singlar is responsible for this presentation. Singlar is in agreement with the
proposal because of the current lack in business at numerous marinas.
Please don't expect a reduction in the rates until we are notified that the meeting has taken place. We will let you know the outcome as soon as
possible.
(This information emailed to me from McGave)
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Cypress
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Thanks for the education Don Alley.
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flyfishinPam
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Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
But what I find most objectionable is an attitude of "These gringos are all rich, lets get as much as we can." I think it shows a lack of respect.
And I think it comes from bureaucrats in Mexico City and benefits no one and harms many, especially local Mexican citizens, who, incidently, are being
eliminated from Puerto Escondido in any capacity except as workers. |
Let see. 105 pesos in and another 105 pesos out. 50 pesos per day to park. 260 pesos total. $23.87 at todays exchange rate. For the the rig I
have at Tripui I would pay $20 to launch and retrieve at Dana Point, my home port.
At the Hotel Coral in Ensenada: Launch ramp is $ 35.00 per day, $ 15.00 if guest of Hotel with minimum 2 nights stay.
At least Singlar has the rates in pesos! Who knows, maybe 260 pesos may soon be 20 bucks. like it or not, inflation is here. and the dollar isnīt
worth a buck these days.
All the whining going on here about having to spend a few extra bucks and the real story is the "'old ramp" and the pier and seawall are now off
limits to the citizens of Mexico! Why don't we gringos, instead of b-tching and moaning about our poor selves b-tch and moan and fight for the plight
of our hosts, the Mexican people in whose country we are either tourists, travellers or visitors?
Would it not be better to start some type of letter writing campaign and at least make some effort to allow the old ramp to be used by Mexican
nationals for launching and fishing?
The "free market" isn't free and their irresponsible government should at least distiguish between right and wrong if not between right and greedy.
The people of Loreto should not be cut off de facto by economic burdens they should not bear. |
I don't much care what other loctions are charging. I used to pay in Oceanside to launch but there was plenty of parking, a dock, boat wash-down,
reasonably priced gas, the list goes on. The fee of $28 in Loreto is excessive but its the tip of the iceberg as to what's on its way to Loreto. A
reality check is that there are very few other options. The marina in town cannot handle boats much larger than a panga because it is in awful shape.
The average person can't afford another $28USD to make their living, I'm talking the average panguero. Of course it will become part of the cost to
do business which will be passed on to consumers. Then the consumers say "I pay less i La Paz, Zihuat, Los Cabos, etc." and then it becomes my job
to justify it. Its becoming very difficult to do so especially with the abuses that continue within our park. Two weeks ago a friend of mine brought
his panga to p.e. to launch. It was so early there was no-one there yet to collect a fee. When they returned the guard wanted to charge a fee but my
friend explained that he didn't bring any money and wasn't aware of a fee. His boat was held as he went to Loreto to get money then return. This is
an average Mexicano who has hardly worked in months due to strong winds offshore. He was out with some buddies that day catching fish for food for
christsakes. We'll hear and see more of these stories as access is closed, denied, etc. Next target is the marina in town. Meanwhile we just try
and survive the best we can.
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Hook
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Jorge, I would say that the most efficient remedy would be to pressure Singlar to lower the fees to a level that is manageable to Mexicans AND
Americans. Simply staying away is the best method. Maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of 10.00 for in AND out, total. The increased traffic could
help to support the ancillary businesses that are probably planned in the buildings they are constructing down there.
But when gringos try to intercede in the governings of Mexico, like you're suggesting, it creates animosity higher up in the government. They tell us
it's THEIR country and we should butt out. Think of all our whining over the commercials overcatch and bycatch. And to a large degree, they are right.
No, I really think the best method is to alter the demand side of Singlar's little slice of "American supply and demand" pricing.
Hey, if they get boaters lined up waiting to launch at 28.00 per, well, the market has spoken, I guess. But they have set an arbitrary figure to
start. No reason why the consumer cant choose to be arbitrary in its use, as well.
Hey man.....moving the rig to La Paz, you are a welcome part of the boycott. 
[Edited on 2-22-2007 by Hook]
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vandenberg
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
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I sure don't care.
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I have my reservation for a year round slip in La Paz and in May Loreto will be another memory.
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WITH YOUR ATTITUDE, GOOD RIDDANCE.
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Don Alley
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Posts: 1997
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Location: Loreto
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Hook, I think you have the right idea. And as consumers of Singlar's services, we have some justification for protesting the prices, and we can
influence prices by refraining from paying them. And at least for now market forces appear to be an ally.
Don Jorge:
The access issue for local people is more difficult. First, we have no direct standing. We can't influence those decisions with our wallets, and
written protests could be seen as political meddling, and that, as Hook suggests, can be counter-productive. Also, we are dealing with two different
agencies. The shore and pier fishing access problem at PE comes from API (Integral Port Authority), a state outfit catering to the cruise ship lines,
not Singlar/Fonatur. And to a limited degree, international conventions dealing with anti-terrorism security may be at play as well. I believe public
access is no longer allowed to piers that host international ship traffic.
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
But it really sucks that the local people can't use that place anymore. |
Yes it sucks that the locals can't afford the ramp anymore. It also sucks that gringos can't afford it. The locals haven't been able to afford those
launch fees for years. I don't remember the last time I saw a panguero launch his working panga there. They all seem to launch at the Loreto marina.
But locals do fish from the pier all the time. Fencing off the pier and the wall running along the channel is really bad IMO.
Having two separate fees is unfair. The launch fee should be lowered for everyone. Launching a boat is a basic need that everyone should have a right
to. There should be no haves and have nots.
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flyfishinPam
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
But it really sucks that the local people can't use that place anymore. |
Yes it sucks that the locals can't afford the ramp anymore. It also sucks that gringos can't afford it. The locals haven't been able to afford those
launch fees for years. I don't remember the last time I saw a panguero launch his working panga there. They all seem to launch at the Loreto marina.
But locals do fish from the pier all the time. Fencing off the pier and the wall running along the channel is really bad IMO.
Having two separate fees is unfair. The launch fee should be lowered for everyone. Launching a boat is a basic need that everyone should have a right
to. There should be no haves and have nots. |
When fees were charged for the ramp that the tripui residents put in, most locals never had to pay. I can't tell you how many times my husband and I
with our panga were just waved through. This is what my friend was expecting when he launched a couple weeks ago. singlar is on the scene now.
Having the old ramp locked up is simply a stab in our backs and the backs of those who worked hard to install it in the first place. The fact that
most locals launch at Loreto municipal marina is because most of the fishing has been taking place to the north of town so it just makes sense to
launch from there. We're losing beach and shoreline access by the day and I'm losing places to send folks who just want to fish the shoreline now.
And next year there will be even fewer of these places, then the camping spots will be gone. I guess I too can adjust when these changes overtake us,
but just because I and my family will find a way doesn't mean that we won't fight for our rights and those of all the other people.
[Edited on 2-23-2007 by flyfishinPam]
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vandenberg
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Pam, don't overdo it. That Escondido ramp was put in by Fonatur when Escondido was being developed. The gringos, with their ever bigger boats and
4-wheel drive trucks, managed to wreck the ramp's pavement. Donations from Tripui residents, but also many gringos in town and Nopolo, raised enough
money to resurface the ramp. For a while there were no fees, then a small $ 5.00 one, and then, Fonatur smelling a cash cow, went to $13.00. Closing
that ramp doesn't make any sense to us of course, but the fact remains ,that it's owned by the government and they can actually do whatever they want
with it. And if anyone thinks that petitioning the Mexican government is going to have any kind of effect....well, I wish you all lots of luck, but
don't hold your breath.
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
but the fact remains ,that it's owned by the government and they can actually do whatever they want with it.
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They can do whatever they want but they should do the right thing. It's a government for ALL the people and should charge fees accordingly.
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vandenberg
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
but the fact remains ,that it's owned by the government and they can actually do whatever they want with it.
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They can do whatever they want but they should do the right thing. It's a government for ALL the people and should charge fees accordingly.
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Tell that to Dubya and his cronies.
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Alan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
I would say that the most efficient remedy would be to pressure Singlar to lower the fees to a level that is manageable to Mexicans AND Americans.
Simply staying away is the best method. |
I agree that this is our most effective recourse. Let the mexicans petition their government. We gringos can be most effective by passively
boycotting this development (not just the ramp) in support of the local's. The government has a huge investment here that they can't afford to have
sit idle. Singlar has a responsibility to the government to manage this development effectively. There is a win-win point for all involved with this
issue. It is just a matter of allowing the system of supply and demand get us to that point.
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
When fees were charged for the ramp that the tripui residents put in, most locals never had to pay. |
Good. Now everyone has to pay. Unfair subsidizing needs to stop...across the board.
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vandenberg
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
I would say that the most efficient remedy would be to pressure Singlar to lower the fees to a level that is manageable to Mexicans AND Americans.
Simply staying away is the best method. |
I agree that this is our most effective recourse. Let the mexicans petition their government. We gringos can be most effective by passively
boycotting this development (not just the ramp) in support of the local's. The government has a huge investment here that they can't afford to have
sit idle. Singlar has a responsibility to the government to manage this development effectively. There is a win-win point for all involved with this
issue. It is just a matter of allowing the system of supply and demand get us to that point. |
Problem here is, that they probably are going to solve this dilemma the Mexican way and triple the fees for the few people that ,no matter what the
cost, will use the facilities 
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backninedan
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Dave
I have no problem paying a fee, but twenty eight bucks is gouging, and eliminates locals all together. Where do you find fairness here??
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Hook
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"Problem here is, that they probably are going to solve this dilemma the Mexican way and triple the fees for the few people that ,no matter what the
cost, will use the facilities".
Agree, Vandy. That's the problem with a quasi governmental organization that doesnt mind losing money with that kind of pricing. If they had to make
the money back more quickly, they would set a more reasonable price to get some cashflow going.
28 bucks and not even a courtesy dock???? What are they thinking!
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Cypress
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I'm confused. Singlar? Fonatur? What's the difference other than the way you spell 'em? Question? Are they doing more harm than good?
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Hook
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
I'm confused. Singlar? Fonatur? What's the difference other than the way you spell 'em? Question? Are they doing more harm than good? |
Like most entities associated with the Mexican government, YES!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
I'm confused. Singlar? Fonatur? What's the difference other than the way you spell 'em? Question? Are they doing more harm than good? |
This started with the former Escalara Nautica project. It's morphed into the Mar de Cortes project. The first thing they did was, of course, put up
signs. 
There are several big billboards in La Paz. Elsewhere, there are many new signs pointing the way to various places of interest, and, when you get
theer, a sign telling you where you are. Like at a mission, or whatever.
Part of the deal is for a new government oranization, called Singlar, to take control of the government built marinas around the Sea of Cortez.
Singlar is a division of the national tourism development agency Fonatur; Singlar has its own directors but final decision power is with the head of
Fonatur. Singlar's office at Puerto Escondido is the office for the whole Mar de Cortez project, but they answer to a manager and director in Mexico
City.
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