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cbuzzetti
Nomad
Posts: 193
Registered: 5-22-2006
Location: Atascadero, Ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lookin for a vacation
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If they are going to develope the coast it is best if done where developement has already taken place.
The areas that are really worth protecting are the ones that are closest to their natural state.
I would much rather see a new marina at Cabo than at Mag Bay or Laguna la Bocana.
Progress is unstoppable so it may as well be clustered.
I do not want rampant developement in Baja but I know it is going to continue.
So lets save the areas that are really pristine. IMO
Great topic by the way.
BajaBuzz
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
What you say here only re-emphathises what David is saying-------why did they wait until the last min. to protest this way? Why is this information
only being posted NOW? It should have been posted over and over again (if true) and brought to the responsible authorities attention so that the
project could have been stopped long ago. This eco-terrorism is insane.
As a member of the Sierra Club for years and years, I finally quit for reasons just like David points out--------they do not follow proper procedure,
and disrupt enterprise at the last min. to the enormous expense of others trying to accomplish things.
There points are sometime valid, but their way of doing things stinks, IMHO. And often, they are simply wrong, though well-meaning (and sometimes I
question even this)
I am still waiting for someone to answer David's questions. |
Berry A you are right on with this post
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
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Tribunal Article
http://www.tribunadeloscabos.com.mx/newpage/index.cfm?op=por...
I am the first to admit that I dont understand all of this article and would appreciate one of you to help me but one thing that I did understand is
that the local government has denied issuing any permits for the marina which they say all came from the federal government.
As for sacrificing one of the most important stopovers in the migration of hundreds of species of birds from north to south and back every year, I
think that is a shame. Some of you dont realize that this is not part of the San Lucas sprawl. It was a pristine area with no tourists, only birds
and other wildlife which, one day, everyone will realize is a pretty important part of the formula for survival.
PS: The only club I claim membership to is the human race so dont label me, please
[Edited on 5-8-2007 by bajajudy]
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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As for sacrificing one of the most important stopovers in the migration of hundreds of species of birds from north to south and back every year, I
think that is a shame. Some of you dont realize that this is not part of the San Lucas sprawl. It was a pristine area with no tourists, only birds
and other wildlife which, one day, everyone will realize is a pretty important part of the formula for survival.
That really is the bottom line. Haven't been back in 3 yrs, when they started bulldozing everything. Broke our heart to see it happening. It is a
huge loss for the area.
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
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This was taken yesterday in the estero between El Presidente Hotel and the new marina.
Muy tranquilo
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Great pic bajajudy, makes it real.
I am pleased to hear that Mexican Greenpeace members onboard for this.
Thanks,
Iflyfish
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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Thank You Judy for the nice words and picture of the "Snowy Egret"?? We have camped in and explored that area two times in years past. The last time
was 5 years ago and we had heard of the proposed development at that time. Its really ashame how fast places are bieng dispoiled for the sake of
deveolpment.........This is a great thread and I think people that care about this subject, should all have the right to voice an opinion. We really
form our opinions from our education and expieriences. What some people cant see is...... it is not a Mexico/USA environmental issue exclusively.The
border line which was determined by some treaties and agreements 100 years ago, has nothing to do the the physical state of the geological land
mass. The birds and the wildlife and the weather do not recognize this boundry. It is all part of the North American/Mexican SouthWest. This is the
year of 2007 and we are an educated and advanced civilization living and traveling in this landscape. We have a moral obligation to respect it and
protect it and each small plant and animal that also uses and lives in this landscape.We do not have the right to alter it and destroy it. We need to
look back and see our past mistakes. And to you Barry....... Damming Glen Canyon and creating Lake Powel was a huge disaster. That was an evviromental
trade to the Army Corp of Engineers and the Dept of Interior so 3 less dams would be built as part of the Tennisee Valley Authority Dams. I had
floted Glen Canyon not long before it was dammed and it was a magnicent canyon,...... surpassing the Grand Canyon by far.The lake burried hundreds of
important Annazazi Indian Ruins that dated back to 5000 years and more,and totaly destroyed a pristine area of thousands of square miles,
oblitterating wildlife habitat. Last year we walked over 400 miles with a back pack, in 7 weeks in the Escalante area and if you want to have a close
look at what Lake Powell is doing that is one place you could get a first hand look. It had been 20 years since last trip to that canyon. What a
difference!!.....I believe the Mexican kids that are supporting GreenPeace want a better life for themselves and are tired of watching their parents
sell out.Ask yourself?? Where do they have to go???
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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Why is it that whenever there is a discussion of Greenpeace or the Sierra club it always falls down to environmental issues. That is not the crux of
the problem with these type of orginizations. The directors and founders may have some conservational bend but for the most part they are a business
and run solely on the contributions of others. So they pick up an issue that has the most likelihood of bringing in new members and money. So the
message they send out is join us or you are just one of those rotten developers. Well guess what, I am adamantly opposed to the development and I
cringe when I read things like the estuary and the stupidity that is going on at Loreto Bay, but let us not confuse the issue with Greenpeace or any
other feel good orginization that has as its primary purpose to recruit new money and members (which translates into more money). This is really no
different than the advertising that is done for the casinos which promote if you want to be rich, come and gamble at our casions ( like that is really
gonna happen) but we buy this line and come and spend our dollars so that some rare person wins a big jackpot and we go away wishing it would have
been us. Greenpeace and the Sierra club, for the most part do exactly the same thing, you get to feel really good about yourself doing something to
save the environment if you will just join with us with your person and your money.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Crusoe said, "And to you Barry....... Damming Glen Canyon and creating Lake Powel was a huge disaster. That was an evviromental trade to the Army
Corp of Engineers and the Dept of Interior so 3 less dams would be built as part of the Tennisee Valley Authority Dams. I had floted Glen Canyon not
long before it was dammed and it was a magnicent canyon,...... surpassing the Grand Canyon by far.The lake burried hundreds of important Annazazi
Indian Ruins that dated back to 5000 years and more,and totaly destroyed a pristine area of thousands of square miles, oblitterating wildlife habitat.
Last year we walked over 400 miles with a back pack, in 7 weeks in the Escalante area and if you want to have a close look at what Lake Powell is
doing that is one place you could get a first hand look. It had been 20 years since last trip to that canyon. What a difference!!.....
Crusoe-------
Could you expand on just "why" you think Glen Canyon is a "disaster"? Your Tennesee Valley Authority theme was certainly part of it, but there were
many, many other issues that went into the decision to build the dam------perhaps you have read Marc Reisner's "Cadillac Desert" which details all
this history. As I said, everything is a "trade-off", and on balance the Glen Canyon dam and Lake Powell is hugely valuable to the extreme southwest
from a human perspective. I lived in Utah with the Nationa Park Service while all this was going on, and have tramped all over that area, including
having my family running through Glen Canyon prior to the dam (I was an NPS River Ranger)-------tho fantastic, it in no way compares with the Grand
Canyon. Your "conclusion" (and that IS what it is) that the lake has "totally destroyed" the surrounding area is silly and false, and I think you
probably know that. I have recently spent time in the Escalante, too (tho not nearly as much as you) and I think that it is wonderful, and yes I have
seen it prior to the filling of Lake Powell.
Everything is in the eye of the beholder, and each of us has their own "reality". We probably agree on most things of this nature, but overstating the
consequences, and making concrete statements based on speculative and scanty "science" is what discredits the Environmental EXTREMISTS cases almost
every time. That is a shame because much of what they say is valid, and yes we DO need to conserverve as much as is feasible without totally
compromising the viability of the human endeavor. There must be balance. We need to have folks on both sides of these issues remain calm and honest
if we are to make any progress, it seems to me. (and we DON'T need eco-terrorism, or any other kind of terrorism!!!!!)
Ed Abbey was one man, and a bit evil, in my opinion and certainly an "eco-terrorist" and outside the "rule of law", and consequently a rather
uncivilized eco-freak. (but he did write well)
Barry
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Wow------what happened to this post????
-----it disappeared from human observation. Were my comments THAT bad????
Barry
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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There is a great difference between terrorism and civil disobedience.
Perhaps by the logic of some here, Martin Luther King was a terrorist.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3881
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"That is not the crux of the problem with these type of orginizations. The directors and founders may have some conservational bend but for the most
part they are a business and run solely on the contributions of others. So they pick up an issue that has the most likelihood of bringing in new
members and money."
In truth and in FACT
Their members are actual human beings who actually go out and swing a hoe, a shovel, put on gloves and boots, and get the job done. I speak from
personal experience. Yes, worldwide organizations, like any successful organization, needs money to pay the bills. Educate yourself and find out
what their accomplishments are. They are real, and without those many, many organizations doing what they do, your world would be in sorrier shape
than it already is. The local chapters of the Sierra Club work locally - city by city - getting the job done - saving canyons, keeping open space
open, halting numerous violations of law, cleaning beaches, getting the word out on projects, etc. - all done by actual people - one by one - taking
personal responsibility - standing up for what they believe in.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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Folks,
This thread is NOT about Greenpeace and the like....it is about destruction of an organism: the planet.
Don't believe everything you think....
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
Member Is Offline
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Heron
Same day. same spot. I just realized I had captured this guy.
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
Member Is Offline
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March Today
Greenpeace es una organización ecologista internacional, económica y políticamente independiente, que utiliza la no violencia y la confrontación
creativa para
denunciar los problemas ambientales globales y para proponer soluciones necesarias para un futuro verde y en paz.
Por medio de la presente, invitamos a su respetable
medio de comunicación a la marcha:
En la que participarán ciudadanos de San José del Cabo, con el fin de defender la
reserva ecológica de Baja California Sur, y de solicitarle a Luis Armando Díaz,
presidente municipal de Los Cabos, BCS., que trabaje en favor de la protección
del medio ambiente y de la comunidad.
Agradecemos la asistencia y la cobertura de su medio a esta actividad.
Favor de enviar fotógrafa(o) y camarógrafo, pues habrá imagen.
La cita es este JUEVES 10 DE MAYO A LAS 10:00 a.m.
en la planta de tratamiento de aguas residuales de Fonatur
(frente a la estación de bomberos), en el CENTRO de SAN JOSÉ
DE LOS CABOS, en Baja California Sur.
Para mayor información, comunicarse con Cecilia Navarro (en el DF) al 5530 2165 ext.
220 o al 04455 5172 9869 o con Raúl Estrada (en Los Cabos) al 045 55 2746 3236 o visitar
la página www.greenpeace.org.mx. Imágenes disponibles.
[Edited on 5-10-2007 by bajajudy]
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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Puerto Los Cabos marina and residential is being developed by the Sanchez/Navarro family, originally from Mexico City. They are also developing the
El Campestre residential with Jack Nicklas golf course in San Jose. This family is the developer and owner of the Cabo Real mega sub-division on the
San Lucas/San Jose corridor. They do not have a good reputation. I know 20 or 30 people that have had bad experiences with them. Historically they
have not performed on the promises (or were they lies from the beginning?) when developing a property. They have a reputation of doing everything as
cheaply as possible, putting several coats of paint over the deficiencies, selling the project, and moving on. I have looked at the marina and it is
my opinion that it is poorly engineered and will not survive even a glancing blow from a hurricane. I will not keep my boat there, especially at the
USD$30/foot/month they are going to charge. These are Newport Beach prices.
Once upon a time, I wrote Environmental Impact Reports. I think I was pretty objective because in just about every case both the environmentalists
and the developer who was paying me were unhappy with my conclusions and recommendations about one point or another. Each wanted me to be in their
"camp." You see, I think that responsible development and environmental protectionism compliment each other and go hand in hand and are good, one for
the other. It is my opinion that the Puerto Los Cabos development is all ready causing some severe negative environmental impacts on the estuary that
could or may be irreversible. But perhaps we don't need that old estuary anyway. It depends on your priorities. Had Sanchez/Navarro been smart,
they would have brought Greenpeace in from the beginning and made them a partner in the decision making process with regards to environmental issues.
I think this kind of mutual cooperation could have resulted in a magnificent project - profitable for the Sanchez/Navarro family while preserving and
enhancing the estuary.
I hope that Greenpeace is successful in blocking at least part of this destructive project. Alas, I fear it is not to be. The Sanchez/Navarro family
is very powerful with lots of money and they have friends in very high places.
[Edited on 5-11-2007 by oxxo]
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