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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
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balls without brains is like a blind hog it will root out a acorn every once in a while
jerry and judi
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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"If" If gill nets had not been banned in the northern Gulf of Mexico the inshore fishery would have been over by now. Gill nets were outlawed and the
fishing is excellent.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Dennis, the only people I know of running nets in our area are Chuy's family. They string them right across the openings between the rocks off of
Punta Banda. Where do you think that pile of crab comes from you see sitting on the table when you drive by? Anyone ever buy those, if so, you are
part of the problem.
Skeet, these people are not poor. As a matter of fact, they own ranches and properties all over the area. If the poor people fish, at least where I
live, they are uni divers.
Have I ever taken out their nets.. Si Senior. With the propeller of my outboard. Lets call it an accident. They have plenty of money to buy new ones
though.
I only take what I can eat, and maybe a few to give to my neighbors. I don't like frozen fish, or old fish.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Yeah ---- That's a real appetizing sight. A pile of dead spider crabs cooking in the sun. I don't buy them. I wouldn't take them if they were
free. I wouldn't take them if they were alive and well.
I am aware, however, of the blind efficiency of gill nets. I used to fish commercially with deep water nets. Anything that swims into them is dead.
Fortunately for the fish, our nets were too often empty but, in those days nobody questioned the methods for the decline of fish. We just called it
another bad day.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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I so pity all of you Weak-minded Do Gooders who thin that you are doing something "Good" trying to save the Fish.
If you were to succeed, it would have to be with Military Enforcement and which Do Gooder would be the Head of that Group.
As I awoke to another Beautifull Day, a very sad picturewas brought back to my Memory:
1951/52 North Korea where my tears flowed and my Heart broke, watching starving Children eating Bugs and Worms to keep from Starving to Death.
Their Evil Govt. still thrives, the Do Gooder Military Eats Well while its Children Starve. and you People want to keep Fish off the Market that may
end up keeping a Child Alive. SHAME ON YOU!!!
At lease our efforts in the War saved the South Koreans from Starving.
Minnow, if you went to the Baja Sur Coast and cut some nets, your Body would one day come ashore wraped in a Net.
Skeet/Loreto
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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Skeet, I don't want to make light of your heartfelt post. However, it is hard to grasp exactly where you are coming from. The poor in Mexico/baja are
usually so poor, at least from what I have seen, they could never afford a net. Nets are for the rapers these days. I would have loved to have been
alive to see the SOC in 1950. I was there in 1980.1990.and 2000. Don't tell me the fishing is still the same.
You are living off an old model. One where a rich young millionaire in Mexico had to make friends with the locals. The rym's nowadays have
plenty of company. The foundation you laid is well in place. Good work my man.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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  Hey Minnow....were on the same page.
and what you say is true IMHO. Skeet...hello...
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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I will agree that the fishing is not the same as it was 20 30 years ago.
In the past, the Loreto area, neting of Fish and taking the Cabrilla with Spearguns was Illegal and was and is still be enforced!
In the Past 20 years, the Miltary came in and started enforcing the Limit of the Fish.
Many Sport fisherman stopped coming to the Loreto Area because of the restrictions.
I saw the removal of the Sierra from the Bays, whereby the Yellowtail moved out to deep water for the Mackeral. The Sierra are coming Back.
I saw Whales and Squid beach themselves as an act of their Nature.
Where I am coming from is that I firmly beleive that Mexico is for Mexicans- That American or Canadian Do- Gooders should become Good Doers and start
in their own Country and let the Mexicans take care of themselves.
How do you expect anyone in any Country that is Hungry from buying food for Survival. What about the Cat and Dog Food produced from the byproducts.
Should all Americans get rid of their Pets, thereby stopping that part of the equation???
Why was there no "Do Gooder outcry when for 3 years in the Past 10, Hannjin was taking 1,000's of Tons of Squid out of the Loreto area each night from
April to Sept.??- It was being shipped to South Korea for Food.
I think that the Major reason for a decline in the Fish Count around Loreto is because of the taking of the Squid, the decline of the Sportfisherman.
The Sea of Cortez is still Rich in Fish. It is a long way from being "Ruined as the Eco-nuts Hollar about.
It appears to me that many Do Gooders find a Platform, then use Scare Tactics to elicit Support by giving them Money.
I think that they should become Good Doers with Actions to help People instead of Do Gooders who Talk and Scare People.
Minnow, if you would like to see and Help some poor People of Baja sur, I suggest that you get many warm Jackets, go to the General Hospital in
Cuidad Constution. Go with the Social Worker to deliver those Jacket, then come back on this Board and tell us about the Children you Helped.
Saving the Fish for the Future Generation?? Look what happened to my Generation after we went to War, trying to save Generations from the N-zis the
Japanese: Our Country one of the largest users of DOPE.
The yougones cannot save a Dime for the Future, but contuine to get into Deeper Debt., Half are fighting a War, the Wimps are Protest, our Prisons are
Full, Children are killing Children in the Schools.
Do you expect a Mexican Fisherman, Commercial or Not respecting an American coming into his Country and trying to force him into not catching and
selling a Food Product???
I think your efforts should go to doing something to help the present Generation who in the process maybe able to help the Future Generation.
Skeet/Loreto
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I will agree that the fishing is not the same as it was 20 30 years ago.
In the past, the Loreto area, neting of Fish and taking the Cabrilla with Spearguns was Illegal and was and is still be enforced!
In the Past 20 years, the Miltary came in and started enforcing the Limit of the Fish.
Many Sport fisherman stopped coming to the Loreto Area because of the restrictions.
I saw the removal of the Sierra from the Bays, whereby the Yellowtail moved out to deep water for the Mackeral. The Sierra are coming Back.
I saw Whales and Squid beach themselves as an act of their Nature.
Where I am coming from is that I firmly beleive that Mexico is for Mexicans- That American or Canadian Do- Gooders should become Good Doers and start
in their own Country and let the Mexicans take care of themselves.
How do you expect anyone in any Country that is Hungry from buying food for Survival. What about the Cat and Dog Food produced from the byproducts.
Should all Americans get rid of their Pets, thereby stopping that part of the equation???
Why was there no "Do Gooder outcry when for 3 years in the Past 10, Hannjin was taking 1,000's of Tons of Squid out of the Loreto area each night from
April to Sept.??- It was being shipped to South Korea for Food.
I think that the Major reason for a decline in the Fish Count around Loreto is because of the taking of the Squid, the decline of the Sportfisherman.
The Sea of Cortez is still Rich in Fish. It is a long way from being "Ruined as the Eco-nuts Hollar about.
It appears to me that many Do Gooders find a Platform, then use Scare Tactics to elicit Support by giving them Money.
I think that they should become Good Doers with Actions to help People instead of Do Gooders who Talk and Scare People.
Minnow, if you would like to see and Help some poor People of Baja sur, I suggest that you get many warm Jackets, go to the General Hospital in
Cuidad Constution. Go with the Social Worker to deliver those Jacket, then come back on this Board and tell us about the Children you Helped.
Saving the Fish for the Future Generation?? Look what happened to my Generation after we went to War, trying to save Generations from the N-zis the
Japanese: Our Country one of the largest users of DOPE.
The yougones cannot save a Dime for the Future, but contuine to get into Deeper Debt., Half are fighting a War, the Wimps are Protest, our Prisons are
Full, Children are killing Children in the Schools.
Do you expect a Mexican Fisherman, Commercial or Not respecting an American coming into his Country and trying to force him into not catching and
selling a Food Product???
I think your efforts should go to doing something to help the present Generation who in the process maybe able to help the Future Generation.
Skeet/Loreto |
Wow Skeets, your the one who sounds like the bleedig heart liberal!
So some people in Baja are poor and starving. How'd that happen?
Who's responsible?
Here's a novel idea. If you can't support children then don't have any. Why don't you tell that to you local buddies.
And not everyone in the US is on drugs or doesn't save enough for retirement or all the other bad things you described.
Wh are you so bitter and hate people from the US.
I'm glad the mexican people are starting to manage their fish better. Good for them!
But you know Skeets, people can believe in whatever causes they like. I personlly would rather save the cortez and Baja than any people who seem
intent on ruining it by overfishing it.
If you want to take you millions and pass out jackets to starving poor people who probably should never have been born go ahead. No one is stopping
you.
By why get down on people who are trying to help in a different way. I'm sure there are lots of fish left in the Cortez. I'm counting on it. But it's
stupid to fish them until they are all gone. Just like it's stupid to produce children you can't support. Just because you have a family to support
does not justify ruining the enviornment or breaking the law.
That's cheating and is the exact opposite of being a responsible adult.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Yes Skeet, Mexicans should make, honor and enforce their sovereign nation. That should include this near shore environment. It's wonderful to hear and
see the progression towards managing and acting as good stewards. But as many point out, the net has huge holes in it. I've seen the trawlers in the
Bay of Conception more recently. I doubt they were approached at all and they are part of the Guaymas fleet not locals.
THat doesn't mean that the locals abide either. I don't know if long-lining for shark is allowed in there but I've seen huge piles of rotting shark
and ray parts in a few places. As far as netting goes, I wouldn't be suprised to see that occur either in there.
My point is; Mexicans as well as any other country can learn stuff from others and protect themselves for similar fate(s). Even though marine
science is so inexact, there is much the world has gleaned towards being good stewards. Don't you think every nation has a moral obligation to protect
their own productive waters. That means learning from others and ACTUALLY ENFORCING the laws they created.
I know money has a lot to do with the equation. My belief is that the people of Mexico get nothing from these ventures and have everything to lose.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Hey fishbuck,
You better write the Pope about those kids they're not able to support.   
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Fish ---
Bad analogy. People have kids out of human instinct, to propagate a species.
People fish because they are hungry and want to eat.
Other people fish because they want all of the yen they can gather.
They are the problem.
But, lets take it to another level.........one taken by the Mexican government in the drug issue.
It is their point that demand controlls supply. The U.S. market sets the need and the tempo of supply.
This is true.
Mexico, by this point, can't controll the need and since they can't do that, they can't controll supply.
Without aborting this thread, lets transfer the "need/supply" to tuna.
Isn't this the international business philosophy of Mexico? Give them what they pay for?
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Fish ---
Bad analogy. People have kids out of human instinct, to propagate a species.
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That is animal instinct you described. Propagate the species? Your kidding right. Isn't there like 6 billion people on the planet.
Human intelligence is the ability to plan for the future. If I have children do I have the ability to support them, educate them, help them find a
place in society etc.
That's what is suppose to set humans apart from other animals.
But if you create a bunch of children that you can't support you are no better than a stupid animal.
It's time to let natural selection take it's course.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Yeah... thats a good one.
You talk about humanity like they all went to college. What is that drives a Mexican family to be large, or any other culture that passes on familial
responsibility to offspring? The young will care for the old.
That is natural selection.
I was supporting you on your altruistic stand but, I'll back off. I don't think you see all of the real picture at this point.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
Hey fishbuck,
You better write the Pope about those kids they're not able to support.
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Why, does the Pope have a bunch of kids he can't support?
Maybe the catholics should follow the example of their Pope.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Hey fish ----
You're making less sense by the minute. Are you drunk and out of control?
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Yeah... thats a good one.
You talk about humanity like they all went to college. What is that drives a Mexican family to be large, or any other culture that passes on familial
responsibility to offspring? The young will care for the old.
That is natural selection.
I was supporting you on your altruistic stand but, I'll back off. I don't think you see all of the real picture at this point.
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Well Dennis, if that ever worked I think it's a bit obsolete. And kind of selfish too.
I think you'd be better off skipping the kids and saving your money for health insurance.
Isn't that how we do it in the new world?
As far as altruism? Wrong guy. I believe in mutually beneficial capitalism. I get what I need and you get what you need. We both win as long as we
didn't hurt anyone or the planet ( the fish! ) to get it.
Strangly though, I have felt the urge to try and help someone in Baja lately. Don't get the wrong idea. I'm doing it for me and the warm and fuzzy
I'll get from it. You didn't think I was getting soft or something did you?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Oh, c'mon fish ----
A culture is obsolete? Not yours, of course but, another culture is out of date?
Jeezo... If they only knew that you felt that way, what might happen?
Doncha think that's a bit arrogant?
For Mexicans to practice their time honored culture is, as you put it, selfish?
They should, in the interest of modernity, buy more rubbers and health insurance?
I have lived here for quite a while and, untill our conversation, never understood fully what Mexicans found so abrasive about our superior attitude
when discussing culture.
Now, thanks to you, I know.
What new world are you seeing that tells people how many kids they can have? China does that, don't they?
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Oh, c'mon fish ----
A culture is obsolete? Not yours, of course but, another culture is out of date?
Jeezo... If they only knew that you felt that way, what might happen?
Doncha think that's a bit arrogant?
For Mexicans to practice their time honored culture is, as you put it, selfish?
They should, in the interest of modernity, buy more rubbers and health insurance?
I have lived here for quite a while and, untill our conversation, never understood fully what Mexicans found so abrasive about our superior attitude
when discussing culture.
Now, thanks to you, I know.
What new world are you seeing that tells people how many kids they can have? China does that, don't they?
Doncha think that's a bit arrogant?
I have lived here for quite a while and, untill our conversation, never understood fully what Mexicans found so abrasive about our superior attitude
when discussing culture.
Now, thanks to you, I know.
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No, I think it's enlightened and pragmatic. I believe their culture should evolve to survive and be sucessful. Just like we have in the US and some
other developed nations.
Abrasive and superior? Hey I don't care what they do as long as they don't ruin the enviornment I plan to move to eventually.
If they want to have too many kids and live in squalor that's their business. This only promotes more poverty.
I plan to live neat,clean and responsible the way I have my whole life and my family has in the past and yes that is a superior way to live. To each
his own. And to be honest I don't care what anybody thinks of me. I do the best I can and that gernerally is good enough for me. Of course there is
always room for improvement.
When I fish I will only take what I need and that will probably be below the legal limit. I hope there is something I can do to enhance the fishery
for the future. Maybe handing out condoms will do the trick.
I don't apologise because I believe my ethics are good but I am glad you understand things better now Dennis.
Let me know if I can help anymore!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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I believe their culture should evolve to survive and be sucessful. Just like we have in the US and some other developed nations.
Yes. I can't wait till they reach our level.
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