| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
I was a little ticked by Al painting with such a broad brush and bemused by the concept that Americans driving through can affect the economy if they
don't stop.
I feel perfectly safe here. What's going on between the cops and the drug cartel is completely analogous to Chicago during prohibition. The only
difference being the drug of choice then was alcohol. And please, I don't mean to imply that drugs should be legalized. I'm only saying the violence
and the participants are analogous.
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
And please, I don't mean to imply that drugs should be legalized. . |
There are a lot of people who think that's the only way out of this mess.
|
|
|
comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
|
|
Approx. 180,000 people pass through the border each day into just TJ, most all of those people never get below Ensenada.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
Perhaps the proper approach to stopping the current violence is just to de-emphasize the problem. The war on drugs paid for with our tax dollars has
created just that, a war. You can't condone the behavior, nor can you stop it. You just need to "keep a lid" on the problem. And the war on drugs blew
the lid off by taking out the Arellano cartel and leaving the lucrative western border smuggling route open to new contenders who are duking it out
and bribing cops to support one or the other.
In TJ there is a tolerance zone for prostitution, which is illegal. The city officials thereby contain and control the behavior. In some European
countries there are drug tolerance zones, Amsterdam for example. Some kind of middle ground like that needs to be established.
|
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
Feed the bears
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
I was a little ticked by Al painting with such a broad brush and bemused by the concept that Americans driving through can affect the economy if they
don't stop.
I feel perfectly safe here. What's going on between the cops and the drug cartel is completely analogous to Chicago during prohibition. The only
difference being the drug of choice then was alcohol. And please, I don't mean to imply that drugs should be legalized. I'm only saying the violence
and the participants are analogous. |
I don't think Al was referring to the cartel violence. Corrupt police/robbery are the primary concern of folks on this board. When I go to TJ I don't
worry about a mob shootout...I worry about a police shakedown.
I don't think a boycott would do much good. Like Comitan says, most tourists never intend to travel south of Ensenada. Besides, if the police/robbers
saw fewer tourists they would shift their attention to the gringos who live here. Wouldn't want that. Sorry guys...someone has to make the sacrifice.
Better you than me. 
|
|
|
Norm
Junior Nomad
Posts: 82
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: AUBURN CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: GOOD!!!!!
|
|
:moon:We have not stoped going south for a long time, have had no problems yet & hope we never do...,
Only one time coming back in to Ensenada the trailer hitch broke off, we had some help to get everything back in shape !!! Then later we found out
that our jack was gone ~ & we gave this guy a tip for the help ????????????
~~~ Norm ~~~
[Edited on 6-11-2007 by Norm]
|
|
|
oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
|
|
You have 2 choices when stopped by a cop. Either pay the bribe or ask to be taken to the police station so you can pay the fine. The latter approach
usually results in the cop letting you go if you did nothing wrong and if you actually did something wrong and got caught you have the option of
giving the cop the money (amount negotiable) or going to the station and paying the fine.
I live in TJ now and have been driving in the area between TJ and Ensenada for over 30 years (old surfer). I've never been stopped. I was stopped once
in La Paz for failing to yield to a pedestrian where there wasn't a cross walk. I took the convenient route and gave the cop 100 pesos.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
I was a little ticked by Al painting with such a broad brush and bemused by the concept that Americans driving through can affect the economy if they
don't stop.
I feel perfectly safe here. What's going on between the cops and the drug cartel is completely analogous to Chicago during prohibition. The only
difference being the drug of choice then was alcohol. And please, I don't mean to imply that drugs should be legalized. I'm only saying the violence
and the participants are analogous. |
I don't think Al was referring to the cartel violence. Corrupt police/robbery are the primary concern of folks on this board. When I go to TJ I don't
worry about a mob shootout...I worry about a police shakedown.
I don't think a boycott would do much good. Like Comitan says, most tourists never intend to travel south of Ensenada. Besides, if the police/robbers
saw fewer tourists they would shift their attention to the gringos who live here. Wouldn't want that. Sorry guys...someone has to make the sacrifice.
Better you than me. |
Thank you Dave...Drugs and cartels are not the problem here...Enforsement is the whole deal or the lack of it. Both outright theft and allowing other
to get away with it. One thing that really bugs me is the total lack of caring. If we want to educate them, then prove to them their entire monetary
existence depend on us.
I feel bad for the position FDT and other merchants are in. I hope fdt is willing to explain the positive steps he eluded to and what we can expect in
the near future...The drug wars are a feeble excuses for doing nothing about the policia...traffic tickets are not real issues either so leave them
out too.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
I was a little ticked by Al painting with such a broad brush and bemused by the concept that Americans driving through can affect the economy
if they don't stop.
I feel perfectly safe here. What's going on between the cops and the drug cartel is completely analogous to Chicago during prohibition. The only
difference being the drug of choice then was alcohol. And please, I don't mean to imply that drugs should be legalized. I'm only saying the violence
and the participants are analogous. |
If this is true why are you concern with me spending my time on all boards I can reach RV, Fishing,etc.. in an effort to inform of safety issues
issues that exist.
If you are so bemused it having "No effect" the "Just don't stop" should not be of concern.
I am very happy you feel "perfectly safe"...Most of us are not so ingrained and informed to keep our belongings safe. I have this feeling, you do not
take the same risks that you would if you lived in a safer place. I have absolutely no fear of leaving my home and car unlocked at night or day. Do
you? Do you have a large barrier around your property? Would you feel safe leaving you processions in the care of policia?
I do not want to be confrontational, but your lack of concern for fellow travelers leaves little else.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
Sorry for my hastie typing...and spelling.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
losfrailes
Senior Nomad
Posts: 577
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ejido San Lucas near Santa Rosalia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good!
|
|
Al G
What in the world makes you think that 'their entire monetary existence' depends on us?
Just a little egotistical don't you think.
If you feel unsafe here, why come? Is it to expand the monetary existence of the population here?
Note that the responses about problems here in Baja, be it in 'Mulege, Los Cabos, La Paz' or other locations seem to be coming from only a very small
segment of the people that enjoy their existence here in Baja. Definitely not all share your opinion of our importance to the very existence of the
Mexicanos who live here.
I do get the impression that you do not live down here, nor do you pay much attention to what goes on down here, other than the bad news that happens.
Which by the way, happens at an even faster pace in the US than down here.
I myself lived in Concord CA for several years, it was the only place where someone entered my garage and stole a complete set of mechanics tools. No
such occurence down here. Now in those days there was not website to get on and complain, and I still stop in Concord when I pass thru. Of course I
do not represent as great a source of monetary existence to Concord CA as you feel you do to Baja Mexico.
Good luck when you need help down here. You are sure to find it. As long as you have enough money to sway the feelings of the people who would try
to help. Those people that need your financial assistance for their very monetary existence that is.
|
|
|
bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
I have absolutely no fear of leaving my home and car unlocked at night or day. Do you? Do you have a large barrier around your property? Would you
feel safe leaving you processions in the care of policia?
I do not want to be confrontational, but your lack of concern for fellow travelers leaves little else. |
I live full time in Mexico in a area which - to my dislike - is becoming a gated community. In the 12+ years I have lived here there were no security
on the roads itll about 2 years ago. I have no fences around my place. I have a garage full of tools and motors and VW parts which I leave open
UNLESS I go to the old country. I only close the door to my home if it's cold or I'm going to the old country. There are keys in most of my vehicles
(those that use keys). I have lived this way the entire time I have been here. My wife and I feel much safer personally and for my belongings here
than in the old country (USA).
Last year, my mother-in-law's house in Lucerne valley was burgled of TV and lots of other stuff. In Fremont where I lived before coming here I had my
car stolen from in front of my house, tools stolen from my garage.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
Yeah...that was a very strong statement...not untrue not wholly true. Tell me what do you think would happen if all tourism were to stop. What is the
GNP of Baja Norte...Aggaculture...services...tourisum...illegals
You should not ignore the rest of what I said.
The best you can advise the un-suspecting is:
"JUST DON"T STOP"
Would you warn the unsuspecting or do you think...let them suffer for your own well being???
When you have a better answer let me know.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
I have absolutely no fear of leaving my home and car unlocked at night or day. Do you? Do you have a large barrier around your property? Would you
feel safe leaving you processions in the care of policia?
I do not want to be confrontational, but your lack of concern for fellow travelers leaves little else. |
I live full time in Mexico in a area which - to my dislike - is becoming a gated community. In the 12+ years I have lived here there were no security
on the roads itll about 2 years ago. I have no fences around my place. I heave a garage full of tools and motors and VW parts which I leave open
UNLESS I go to the old country. I only close the door to my home if it's cold or I'm going to the old country. There are keys in most of my vehicles
(those that use keys). I have lived this way the entire time I have been here. My wife and I feel much safer personally and for my belongings here
than in the old country (USA).
Last year, my mother-in-law's house in Lucerne valley was burgled of TV and lots of other stuff. In Fremont where I lived before coming here I had my
car stolen from in front of my house, tools stolen from my garage. |
You do not live in TJ or Ensenada and I was not referring solely to Concord.
Why is there such a defensive posture to my condemnations of corrupt cops? Are you supporting the corruption in Baja Norte?
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | | Why is there such a defensive posture to my condemnations of corrupt cops? Are you supporting the corruption in Baja Norte? |
I haven't met a corrupt cop in Mexico yet. Maybe I will some day but not so far. And yes, I've been stopped several times for violations - speeding,
running stop signs, no tail lights and every time I was told to get the light fixed as soon as I could, or we went to the police station and I paid
the fine. None even hinted about doing it any other way. And yes - my story is my story - yours will be different.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
Yes mine is different...I do not speed..I do not run stops...I do not do anything that would get me pulled over. I was pulled over in CD for a
non-working light on my Quad trailer...
My fine was one mil Paso for a fix-it ticket...he kept lowering the price and I kelp telling him to take me to jail or get me to a mechanic.
I don't care about this type of corruption...I care when they steal 50 K from someone. You know they are corrupt...I know they are corrupt sooo why
the BS.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hose A
Just watching the local Ensenada TV new is which there was the announcement that 7 Federal police officers [PFP] were arrested today on drug
trafficking charges. Mexicali division.
The were shown on TV in uniform with the stacks of money and drugs that was in their possession at time of arrest.
They were arrested by the Mexican army . |
HoseA...I know there is a movement of honest special forces and military that are tackling corruption and I feel great about it.
It gives all hope...when it trickles down to the local cops and their cronies, and I am sure it will, I will change my tune. For now, travelers need
to know what they are up against. That should be the Mexican government's job I think, but I will do what I can.
I am sure I have bit off more then I can chew.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
HoseA...I meant to say thank you for the heads up, because we know the government has not quit.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | | Why is there such a defensive posture to my condemnations of corrupt cops? Are you supporting the corruption in Baja Norte? |
I haven't met a corrupt cop in Mexico yet. Maybe I will some day but not so far. And yes, I've been stopped several times for violations - speeding,
running stop signs, no tail lights and every time I was told to get the light fixed as soon as I could, or we went to the police station and I paid
the fine. None even hinted about doing it any other way. And yes - my story is my story - yours will be different.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
|
|
dr650
Junior Nomad
Posts: 33
Registered: 4-17-2007
Member Is Offline
|
|
I agree with Los Frailes. Too many southbound gringos today believe that their monies are primarily responsible for making the country go 'round.
There's a self-involved attitude inherent in that belief that fosters an unhealthy feeling of superiority and entitlement.
If we are not citizens of Mexico, we are visitors in Mexico. And if we are visitors, we do not call the shots nor do we make the rules. And if we
love the country and the people, we will thank our hosts for allowing us into their homes where we have the opportunity to experience a different way
of life, good and bad.
The hustle is ten times worse north of the border, and it goes right to the top. When it comes to crime ... there's no contest. Ditto on
corruption. Our government up north shakes us down on a daily basis and we don't even squawk. And when it comes to quality of life ... forget about
it. People are happier down south. That's as plain as the scowl on someone's commuter face.
Murphy
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
