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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Dr650..you spouted off about everything on a global basis except Corrupt cops in Baja Norte. The only thing that is being discuss. I sensed in your
words , that being a guest, we should expect to be abused. I don't give a rats crap for your opinion, as that is just plain wrong.
By saying something about the tourist dollar, I have given you a wailing wall...well wail away.
I hope you don't get caught off gaurd...they may think you are a tourist.
"And if we love the country and the people, we will thank our hosts for allowing us into their homes where we have the opportunity to
experience a different way of life, good and bad."
Well said....have no clue what it has to do with crime and cops.
I guess you had to say something....
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
I hope fdt is willing to explain the positive steps he eluded to and what we can expect in the near future... |
I have explained it before here on Baja Nomad about the group of people I belong to, but you seem to be not willing to listen, maybe this should now
go to he political forum were i do not post.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
If we want to educate them, then prove to them their entire monetary existence depend on us. |
Sorry to dissapoint you, but you are very mistaken.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
Do you have a large barrier around your property? Would you feel safe leaving you processions in the care of policia?
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I/we live in Tijuana and no, we do not even have a garage door, no large barrier at all. As for leaving my posessions in the care of the policia, I
would not do that, they are not my personal security guards nor are they a posession care center.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
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Al,
I wrote about police corruption as it pertains to the drug cartels and to bogus traffic stops. I think you said neither was the issue. So what are you
talking about?
I don't know for a fact but I bet the TJ to Ensenada police force is very small in relation to the number of people and what Americans are used to.
There probably is just not the resources required to deter crime and find the criminals after a crime is commited.
And, the situation is well known, albeit exaggerated. If you find it so distressing you should probably drive thru as you suggest.
Tourism in the TJ area supports the red light district and the trinket shops/restaurants/bars within walking distance from the border. Nothing more.
Much the same in Ensenada.
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rpleger
Super Nomad
Posts: 1087
Registered: 3-12-2005
Location: H. Mulegé, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Was good.
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Lots of crime here, Don't come here,
Stay away..
Richard on the Hill
*ABROAD*, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to
be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable.
-- Ambrose Bierce, _The Enlarged Devil\'s Dictionary_
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dr650
Junior Nomad
Posts: 33
Registered: 4-17-2007
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
"Dr650..you spouted off about everything on a global basis ..."
Well, actually Al, like you, I do live here on the globe, although sometimes I wonder why.
"I sensed in your words , that being a guest, we should expect to be abused ..."
Umm, that's a bit of a stretch, Al. In terms of accuracy, it might be better to just read the words rather than sense any hidden commie meaning
behind them. But thanks for the chuckle.
"I don't give a rats crap for your opinion ..."
Does this mean we're through?
"I have given you a wailing wall...well wail away ...."
Try saying that backwards three times, AND faster.
"I hope you don't get caught off gaurd...they may think you are a tourist."
Somehow, and I'm not sure exactly how they do it, but those pesky Mexicans usually can tell right away that I'm a tourist, Al. It must have
something to do with the full set body armor. Or maybe, the body odor. Dunno.
" ... have no clue what it has to do with crime and cops ..."
I think we've taken a very big first step here today, Al. Until next week, keep it real ... and try taking life a little more seriously.
Murphy |
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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As I age I find myself feeling more vulnurable, slower in my responses and less physically able to defend myself. I try to take this into account as I
assess the risk of the enviorment that I am in. This increased sense of vulnerability influences and informs both my perceptions and choices.
I mention this not to discount nor diminish the concerns over corruption and crime, but to add to this discussion another level of consideration, an
internal one.
Iflyfish
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Corrupt Cops ?
Lou Says:
"I haven't met a corrupt cop in Mexico yet."
Having paid Mordida numerous times, I must have met Lou's share of Corrupt Cops.
Since I've NEVER encountered a Corrupt Cop in the USA, using Lou's logic, I have to express my doubt that any exist.
Don't take this to mean that I have any complaints about the Mordida system in Mexico. I support it. It's sort of like sending in Rebate coupons.
You've got the choice.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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MrBillM - glad you're getting my share. I certainly know they exist, but haven't had personal experience with them. No Aduana, that's a different
story.
On an aside, looks like their still might be a few left in the US to be concerned about.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4881430.htm...
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
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Ifly makes a very good point.
I value FDT and Los Frailles' opinions based on my knowledge of their past posts and excellent local reputations. I happen to agree with their
opinions here as well. However, like me, they are still of working age.
I have viewed this thread and considered it to be similar to the recent post reminding people to always watch their kids in the water. This should be
common sense to any coherent parent and seemed to be "stating the obvious".
In this case there is a definite difference in perceptions, both valid in my view.
1. The seasoned Baja traveler, resident and citizen, young or older, who also takes foreign residence and traveling precautions as the norm. Not that
we haven't had a "problem" or two but such is life, just like in the US.
2. The much older Baja traveler or the first timers who may either be less capable than the old days or may not be aware of the norm of travelling
cautions. Also travelers with kids or elderly who have obvious additional reasons for caution. Reasons for nervousness can only be judged by the
individual person and situation.
I am a "1" now and hope to remain one in the future.
Although I am not a supporter of the "Just don't Stop" additude for myself, I would tell my 70 something year old parents, who may come down for their
first time this year, to make San Quinton or El Rosario on their first night, if we were not with them.
.
[Edited on 6-12-2007 by Diver]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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ding, ding, ding - we have a winner!!!
| Quote: |
Having paid Mordida numerous times, I must have met Lou's share of Corrupt Cops.
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this is my experience, also. i also have wore down a few cops until they just gave up and sent me on my way.... but the ratio is about 10-1 for the
mordida. all of the "payday's" were when i was a kid (makes sense). now they see the sindicatura sticker and smile.....
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Fear is a huge motivator! Politicians and political parties run (and win) their campaigns by selling it. Some people let it rule
their lives while others stay aware and take sensible precautions.
Of course, there are corrupt cops in TJ and Ensenada. That's the way it is. That's the way the system works. There is also a lot of crime; crimes of
opportunity and also violent crimes. It is often in the news and it sometimes involves tourists, though not often. Everyone internalizes this
information and handles it their own way. There are many who are either unaware or unconcerned. They will spend time and money here and not experience
anything negative. In fact, most travelers will have a great time with no negative impact.
Al G. has suggested a boycott of that part of Baja. I think it is a valid way to handle the fear. Breeze through it, hopefully unscathed. Don't spend
your tourist $ there. By posting his idea here, his hope is to enlist others to join his boycott. Enlisting others in a crusade is the way for a
boycott to succeed.
I do think that the negative reports of drug cartel violence and police involvement have caused lots of people to not cross the border this year. I
personally doubt whether people who may join Al's effort will make any negative impact on the area, nor will the business community or the government
care.
If you feel the way Al does, it will certainly make you feel better by not patronizing that northern part of Baja. That's important.
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | I personally doubt whether people who may join Al's effort will make any negative impact on the area, nor will the business community or the
government care.
If you feel the way Al does, it will certainly make you feel better by not patronizing that northern part of Baja. |
Correct. No one will care and it won't have an impact, but if it makes you feel better to live in fear, well, okay. I won't go through life like
that, even if I should.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Well, it won't happen anyway. As I said earlier, Americans are into apathy, not solidarity.
Al's efforts arn't self-serving. He's thinking of the greater good for all of us. Too bad he had to get pounded for that.
[Edited on 6-12-2007 by DENNIS]
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
I personally doubt whether people who may join Al's effort will make any negative impact on the area, nor will the business community or the
government care.
If you feel the way Al does, it will certainly make you feel better by not patronizing that northern part of Baja. That's important.
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I think I have a great idea 
Al:
what if you keep the position of not stopping till santo Tomas, but instead of just telling the forums, (David K once said:this is baja nomad, not USA
today) you express your opinion to the cities involved, the convention and visitors bureaus of those cities, hotel associations, etc. and the
secretary of tourism for the state. It should be easy, just one e-mail addressed to all of the above, and see what they rerspond, who knows, they
might even book you a night in Tijuana with dinner included and maybe a tour, so you can see first hand and you could probably talk to the officials
and see from them what they are doing about it.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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fdt ----------
Great thoughts for implementaion of Al's ideas but, it's not what Al wanted directly.
He wanted cooperation from other Nomads. He wanted to instigate a grassroots response. He wanted to feel that we all support him.
I do support him and his altruistic thoughts and ideas. Our Baja world needs more heart and soul from us, just like Al's.
We can't go on thinking that our secret spot in Baja is "ours and not theirs". We can't go on turning our backs to the victimization which we endure.
Shame on us for our lack of togetherness, solidarity. We are so self-centered and selfish that we don't care about each other.
That's the problem with Al's proposal. Not that it is misdirected but, that it falls on deaf ears. Ears that only hear Mariachi when their neighbor
is calling for help.
Shame on all of us.
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
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Dennis, solidarity has nothing to do with it. Solidarity is only relevant when a group agrees on the underlying philosophy. That's where we part
company. I cannot support the position that everything north of Santo Tomas is such a hellhole that we should refuse to patronize any businesses
there. Sure, there are specific places that should, in the exercise of common sense, be avoided. But a blanket generalization is unwarranted and
sends entirely the wrong message to people who use this board as a research tool and resource. Example -- I had a fantastic weekend in the Guadalupe
Valley recently. I should boycott the great wineries, restaurants and other establishments there because the cops in TJ are corrupt? Another example
-- we have a friend in Ensenada who builds cabinets and furniture. We've sent him and his shop tons of business, and have lately referred him to
other customers, contributing to his livelhood and those of the people who work for him. We should stop sending people to this guy, who's a
craftsman, a good person, with a delightful family, because there are more gangbangers in Rosarito than we'd like? I just disagree.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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No DanO -----------
Al's suggestions were not what I was refering to. Not at all.
My reference was to lack of solidarity as the American way. We don't support one another unless we have personal motives. That is my point.
I recall in the past when the Mexican government stated, and made a stand, that the government of Israel was a Zionist entity.
That enflamed the USA population of Jews, enlightened through their system of tempels, to the point that they boycotted Mexico as a tourist
destination.
It wasn't too long before a representitive of the Mexican government was in Tel Aviv, on his/her knees kissing the toes of a revered statue, saying,
"So sorry. We didn't mean what we said."
Solidarity really hurt their tourism.
That's what I'm saying.
Albert has the right idea although his methods are flawed. If we all had Alberts heart and sense of right and wrong, we might have solidarity.
That would be a wonderful day in my life, to see us as a group express our desires.
[Edited on 6-12-2007 by DENNIS]
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3597
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Stirring the pot again, eh Dennis?
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
fdt ----------
We can't go on turning our backs to the victimization which we endure.
Shame on us for our lack of togetherness, solidarity. We are so self-centered and selfish that we don't care about each other. That's the problem
with Al's proposal. Not that it is misdirected but, that it falls on deaf ears. Ears that only hear Mariachi when their neighbor is calling for
help. Shame on all of us. |
This thread is full of alot of things and it demonstrates different people's experiences in Baja. I've never had problems in Ensenada and don't
expect to ever have problems there. I am aware of the problems that can come up, and crimes of opportunity is high on that list.
This thread will, possibly, invoke more fear and paranoia, and yet other people won't be effected by what they read. There is a warning being
passed on of bad experiences some people have had in BCN and it's important that these experiences be read and the lessons learned be passed on.
As for thinking we're one big family and need some moral lectures from Dennis about sticking together, and supporting each other (in a boycott, or
whatever), and feeling bad and ashamed, don't go off the deep end with this stuff. It's possible that other than the bad PR TJ is getting with
cartel's, there is nothing new happening between TJ and Ensenada that hasn't been happening for a long time. Maybe it's just making the news more
and bad news sells.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
fdt ----------
We can't go on turning our backs to the victimization which we endure.
Shame on us for our lack of togetherness, solidarity. We are so self-centered and selfish that we don't care about each other. That's the problem
with Al's proposal. Not that it is misdirected but, that it falls on deaf ears. Ears that only hear Mariachi when their neighbor is calling for
help. Shame on all of us. |
I've never had problems in Ensenada and don't expect to ever have problems there.
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Im sure thats because you're so in charge of yourself and everything around you.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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Could I get a picture of that?
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
It wasn't too long before a representitive of the Mexican government was in Tel Aviv, on his/her knees kissing the toes of a revered statue, saying,
"So sorry. We didn't mean what we said."
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I don't remember anything like that happening.
Besides, Jews don't vacation in Mexico. 
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