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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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| Quote: |
Longlegs, if you don't like it, don't do it. But don't try to change a culture because you have some problem with some aspects of it.
--Amir |
I don't like it & don't do it. How did expressing MY thoughts on ONE aspect of the culture...mordita...become my trying to
change "a culture"??  Nothing could be further from the truth. You don't know me, but I'm one of the most vocal proponents of leaving
"gringo standards & expectations" at the border! And here I was thinking that it was Vincente Fox who said "No more mordita!" Pardon me for
echoing a presidential edict.
I'm sorry that you chose to ignore the dire legal issues for the poor Mexicanos, especially in federal jobs, who get caught accepting mordita, they
can't spent the (forfeited) $$ at the local tienda nor buy shoes for their children from jail!
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
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Mood: chiropractic
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Longlegs, indeed I do not know you, but IMHO you did more than just express your thoughts, you were very judgemental; I even sensed anger in your
words, and so I surmise that you really strongly believe in your convictions. That's great. I have strong convictions, too, but irregardless of what
Vincent Fox said, the culture here did not change yet, and if I want some things done, I'm gonna have to grease some wheels... It sucks!
I wonder if you feel the same way about other certain laws that have been promulgated by past presidential edicts or other legislation. Once I had a
whole list of stupid laws that are still laws that have never been repealed; unfortunately I no longer have that list to cite you some examples, but
the one I do remember is about it being a federal offense to show public affection. I break this law everytime I walk downtown holding hands with my
wife.
I wanted to give you other examples, but I cannot remember any. So I just googled "stupid laws" and got 2,580,000 results! Here are some random ones:
Hunting camels is prohibited in Arizona.
In Iowa horses are forbidden to eat fire hydrants.
While it is legal for theaters to show movies on a Sunday, it is only legal so long as (1) they have a permit from either the city or the county and
(2) at least once monthly they show a religious or educational film.
In Ohio, if you ignore an orator on Decoration day to such an extent as to publicly play croquet or pitch horseshoes within one mile of the speaker's
stand, you can be fined $25.00.
In Idaho it is illegal for a man to give his sweetheart a box of candy weighing less than fifty pounds.
There is a law on the books of Tennessee that says a man must run in front of a vehicle that a woman is driving, and, that the car may not go faster
than five miles an hour!
There is a law in Illinois that prohibits a number of things, one of which is a public erection, and another one of which is nude dancing. The
prohibition against the public erection has never been challenged in the Supreme Court.
In Forida it is illegal to sing in a public place while attired in a swimsuit.
In Massachussetts an ordinance declares goatees illegal unless you first pay a special license fee for the privilege of wearing one in public.
In New Mexico females are strictly forbidden to appear unshaven in public.
In Oklahoma females are forbidden from doing their own hair without being licensed by the state.
In Pennsylvania no man may purchase alcohol without written consent from his wife.
In Texas a city ordinance states that a person cannot go barefoot without first obtaining a special five-dollar permit.
Vancouver, WA has a city law that requires all motor vehicles to carry anchors... as an emergency brake.
OK, I think that's enough examples (it was fun to research stupid laws in the USA...)
Now, Longlegs, do you feel as strongly about ignoring these "dire legal issues for the poor" Americans, just because they are edicts. Some of them
required a fee, like 5 bucks to walk barefooted, and a license to cut your own hair or wear a beard! Are those mordidas or what?
I hope we DO leave these "gringo standards and expectations" at the border. And I also hope to learn to relax and be open about customs that go
against previously held deep convictions. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Note that this saying is not the same as: "When in Rome, do as Caesar
edicts." Should we change the proverb?
--Amir
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
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Lencho started this thread about mordita. I've stated MY position on that topic. You've stated yours. Our positions & beliefs are at opposite
ends of the spectrum, as is the logic behind our positions. I agree to disagree on the subject of mordita.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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| Quote: | | What I was referring to here is when I'm solicited for a propina to provide a normal level of service,
somewhere other than a restaurant. |
And why are restaurants an exception??
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3597
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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No right answer -- it is what it is.
| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
I feel mordita is an inherent cultural problem; this has become a society which EXPECTS workers to subsidize their salaries with mordita, and it's
going to take generations for the pendulum to swing the other way.  Especially in
an society with a "relaxed work ethic", continuing to pay mordita only perpetuates the something for nothing mentality, this country has yet to
discover the benefits of pay based on merit; novel approach that that may be! 
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OK I know many of us agree it's a culturally inherent problem. Guess I accept it's NOT going to go away -- not in a few generations -- maybe never?
I'm OK with that -- and I'm thinking you aren't. I don't know what this means: mordida perpetuates something for nothing. Benefits of pay
based merit? Too deep for me. MX Econ 101. I don't think Mexicans see it that way either. Just an opinion based on how I view the world.
| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Morditda negatively effects YOU too!... IMHO, people who pay mordita are SELFISH!! They only think & care about their own interests, they don't
give a damn about the legal ramifications to anyone, nor do they care about anyone who had their requests submitted before them! "Money talks"
alright! But have you ever stopped to LISTEN to what it's saying about you & how you chose to use it??
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You have no problem speaking your mind and expressing your thoughts. Perhaps it's the force with which you do that here. And when you start
pointing your finger at folks calling them selfish, your views become heavy handed. Reread the above. (I am not saying you can't express your
views with force, anger or opinionation, either. Just my view.)
| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
And my comments were NOT restricted to gringos! I guess any of the Mexicanos on the site have as much a right to call me a loco gringa as you do!
This thread is all about expressing our own individual thoughts & feelings. |
I didn't call you loco. I wrote that many Mexicans might. Just an opinion as I might be wrong on this. I'm also thinking Mexicans accept, good
and bad, the inherent ''problems'' of their country including mordida. I think they think it's less of an issue than gringoes -- and of courses,
gringoes are targeted in an unfair way than locals because they have more money. I accept that too.
| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
You guessed right!! I haven't been north of Constitution for 4 years! But I do
tip for food service, according to the level of service. What I was referring to here is when I'm solicited for a propina to provide a normal level
of service, somewhere other than a restaurant. |
I think mordida is a very emotional subject and there are no right answers -- except for those who think mordida is wrong, and then it seems like it
becomes a moral issue for them, and they think there's a vast corrupt conspiracy made worse by participating in it. I didn't invent mordida -- I
view it as a gift, a way to facilitate the process, to grease the wheel. El Norte can learn something from this process. I feel very secure that
mordida will keep me out of trouble.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
And why are restaurants an exception?? |
Tradition.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Mordita, in it's most unadulterated form and related to law enforcement, is ideal. Those who break the law, support law enforcement. It's a
Sin-Tax.
OK---OK........I know it doesn't happen like this when greed takes over but, wouldn't it be nice.
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: chiropractic
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Mordida IS an emotional issue. I wonder what the original events were that lead to our individual beliefs.
I don't think that it so much of a moral issue, just like I don't think that MONEY is much of a moral issue, except in some moral-immoral
circumstances.
And of course money talks; that is precisely one of its functions. Sometimes it says ugly things. If we plug our ears, does money stop talking ugly
things?
People that have more money can almost always get more and better things, and sooner. I have very strong convictions about the power of money and how
it is misused and abused by those who have it. It seems that one problem with mordidas is that involves the government, and to some it only applies to
federal employees and to restaurants. Perhaps these cases are easier to identify and to talk about and that is why we get stuck on these examples. But
the same inequalities are present in all levels of human interactions.
The exchange of money, or the energy it represents, is commonplace everywhere in the world. We exchange money for goods or services at some
established rate. However, the price of things is not always set in stone; sometimes the price is negotiable. More often than not, the price of goods
and services is different than it was first quoted, because of sales, discounts, bargaining, supply and demand, and so on and so forth. Mordida is
just one more variable in this equation.
Those with more money can always get ahead of the line; they can buy their place or send somebody to hold their place in the line. Why, in theaters
they even charge more for sits in the orchestra section! And in ships, the less you pay, the closer your accomodations will be to the bilge. In
hospitals more money gets you a private room. But when it comes to government, some feel it should be different, and maybe it should be, but it isn't.
It is not so even in an ashram. And utopias are only fantasies and dreams.
When there is a choice between two products, the better one usually costs more. Is this immoral? Does this discriminate against the poor?
When there is a choice between levels of service, usually the higher service commands more money. Government should be the same for everyone, but is
it? Do politicians have their own agendas? Do special interests and campain contributions affect the results? Does money talk?
Maybe some feel so strong about the subject of mordida because it is not fair. But this is not a fair world. Competition of any sort is not fair. It
is not fair that some have more opportunities than others. It is not fair that some are better equipped for certain tasks than others. It is not fair
that some people are smarter than others. It is not fair that some are born into wealth. And it is not fair that some can afford a mordida and they
get what they want. Preferential treatment is but one variable in the ORDER of how events get stacked in this world.
Are prayers mordidas to God?
--Amir
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: chiropractic
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MORDIDA IN ACTION!
I'VE BEEN BITTEN...
This afternoon, Sunday at about 4:00 p.m., I went to the beer store to buy a six-pack of Negra Modelo. The price is usually 50 pesos. Today the clerk
told me that the price is now 55 pesos.
"Did the price go up?" I asked.
"No," he replied, "The store is supposed to be closed by 3:00 o'clock on Sundays. We can stay open later but then we have to pay the municipality the
higher price." He told me the weekly store hours and then asked me if I still wanted the beer.
I handed him the money and he said, "Una mordida para El Municipio."
I was happy to pay 10% extra to get the beer I wanted at this particular time to take to the beach and photograph the sunset.
--Amir
P.S. I will post pictures of tonight's "Mordida Sunset" in a new Photo Gallery right after this.
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rob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 509
Registered: 10-19-2004
Location: Pacific Coast, BCS
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Here is a "corruption predictor".
http://www.usc.edu/schools/business/FBE/seminars/papers/AE_4...
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3597
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Facilitating the process in action
| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
I'VE BEEN BITTEN...
"Did the price go up?" I asked.
"No," he replied, "The store is supposed to be closed by 3:00 o'clock on Sundays. We can stay open later but then we have to pay the municipality the
higher price." He told me the weekly store hours and then asked me if I still wanted the beer.
I handed him the money and he said, "Una mordida para El Municipio."
I was happy to pay 10% extra to get the beer I wanted at this particular time to take to the beach and photograph the sunset.
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Everyone is bitten. Everyone is happy. Muni get's paid, the store get's what it wants and get's to stay open longer, you get your beer and enrich
the economy AND you're grateful for having COLD CERVEZA. Sure looks like a triple win to me! What a great Nomad attitude you have, Amir. I
wish there were more people like you posting here.
According to the Diplomatic Corruption, Mexico shows up in 91st place in the corruption predictor -- when compared to countries around the world.
Mordida is regional and not all cops are corrupt. No bad days.
[Edited on 6-25-2007 by Lee]
[Edited on 6-25-2007 by Lee]
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Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bajatastic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
I'VE BEEN BITTEN...
This afternoon, Sunday at about 4:00 p.m., I went to the beer store to buy a six-pack of Negra Modelo. The price is usually 50 pesos. Today the clerk
told me that the price is now 55 pesos.
"Did the price go up?" I asked.
"No," he replied, "The store is supposed to be closed by 3:00 o'clock on Sundays. We can stay open later but then we have to pay the municipality the
higher price." He told me the weekly store hours and then asked me if I still wanted the beer.
I handed him the money and he said, "Una mordida para El Municipio."
I was happy to pay 10% extra to get the beer I wanted at this particular time to take to the beach and photograph the sunset.
--Amir
P.S. I will post pictures of tonight's "Mordida Sunset" in a new Photo Gallery right after this. |
That reminds me of the time I was watching a Raider game on tape delay in the town of Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua. The game started at 9pm and at
10:30pm the bartender told me that all bars in town had to close at 11pm. Since it was the only bar in town with satellite TV, I was in a bind.
I asked him if he would stay open until the end of the game if I bought everyone in the bar drinks until it was over.(only 5 people including the
bartender). Without hesitation, he proceeded to lock the front door and turn off the lights in the front of the bar. I made 5 new friends in a
strange town, got to see the end of my game, and had a great time. There are now 5 more Raider fans in Chihuahua. It cost me about $20 USD.
If you don't belive in Mordida, thats fine. But, It works and it is the way it is. It is part of most cultures one way or another. When I goto my
local bar, I tip my bartender well. I get more tequila in my shot for less price than strangers, often my drinks are free. For my better tips, I get
quicker service and I know I am welcome. In the end it works out for the bartender and it works out for me. If you don't believe in mordida or
tipping feel free to spend 10% on your tips; but, don't expect a strong drink or quick service. In the end you will find out that you are not the
only one that cares about their money and time.
I don't really see a problem paying a traffic cop to forget a violation. (I have traveled in Mexico for years on only had to pay the police once!
Believe me, even though I did nothing wrong, it was cheaper in the long run and kept me out of jail for a night) Pay him then, or goto court and pay
somebody else later. It still cost you in the end. A little money now or a lot of your time and money later... your choice.
It's not like you have to pay Mordida for nothing. You get something for it, that is the idea. At least in Mexico everyone knows the game, here you
have to be very wealthy to even play and don't fool yourself and say it does not exist in the USA too, it's just different.
When in Rome... or when playing chess.. don't try to play checkers and get upset when it does not work out well.. The more you know about the game
the better off you are, even if you choose not to play.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3597
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Mordida works. Thank the Mordida God.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
It's not like you have to pay Mordida for nothing. You get something for it, that is the idea. At least in Mexico everyone knows the game, here you
have to be very wealthy to even play and don't fool yourself and say it does not exist in the USA too, it's just different. |
Yeah, in the USA, mordida is called gringo mordida.
I learned that taking care of people mean they take care of you.
When I walk to the head of a long line, greet the Maitre d' by name, shake hands with him (slipping him $$$$), he escorts me through the door, and to
a front table. He wins and I win. Money talks, BS walks.
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latortugaguera
Banned
Posts: 42
Registered: 10-20-2005
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A wonderful Ensenada traffic officer, stop me last week for yielding at a stop sign. He was a perfect gentleman, when I offer to pay the ticket on
site, he responded “ If I take your money I will be forced to take you to jail” then he ask me to smile for him, he gave me a warning and ask me for
my phone number. The system works every time.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latortugaguera
A wonderful Ensenada traffic officer, stop me last week for yielding at a stop sign. He was a perfect gentleman, when I offer to pay the ticket on
site, he responded “ If I take your money I will be forced to take you to jail” then he ask me to smile for him, he gave me a warning and ask me for
my phone number. The system works every time. |
Not the kind of Mordida or lubrication that is available to me to use. 
....interesting syntax in post regarding sin tax.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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has he called yet?
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latortugaguera
Banned
Posts: 42
Registered: 10-20-2005
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lol prolly but I gave him my area code + zip code. Still waiting for his call lol
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