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Author: Subject: Driving the beach in Baja
Osprey
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 09:57 AM


Some would argue that it's not their beach. That the turtles are the interlopers, littering the beach with shells. Why can't they lay their eggs in trees like the wood ducks? This issue is tough because neither side has space for wiggle room. Mama turtles don't like beaches where they are totally blinded by lights when they emerge from the water. There will undoubtably be many more lights on all the world's beaches so pretty soon we'll all know where the mama's are -- on tiny little crowded, unlighted beaches.
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 10:03 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
Some would argue that it's not their beach. That the turtles are the interlopers, littering the beach with shells. Why can't they lay their eggs in trees like the wood ducks? This issue is tough because neither side has space for wiggle room. Mama turtles don't like beaches where they are totally blinded by lights when they emerge from the water. There will undoubtably be many more lights on all the world's beaches so pretty soon we'll all know where the mama's are -- on tiny little crowded, unlighted beaches.


Osprey,

I have no doubt the sea turtles are doomed !

In fact it is so bad now I will probably choose another planet for my next reincarnation. Glad I don't have any children that will have to face this rapidly growing destruction of our globe.

- CaboRon

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by CaboRon]




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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 10:06 AM


Turtle nests are dug about 18-24 inches down and covered again in sand. It isn't always that drivers crush eggs, the vehicles compress the sand and make it impossible for the newly born to exit digging up through the soft sand.

Sand compression causes severe damage to the ecosystem since hatchlings of many species can not escape/pass the compressed area.

It's really worth a visit to the many turtle camps now found along the more crowded areas. Normally during egg laying seasons, volunteers go out all night and look for turtles laying eggs, they collect the eggs and put them in a protected space and ensure assistance when they eggs hatch about 41 days later. The baby turtles will either be assisted or on their own they will attempt to enter the water at about 5pm-sunset.

You can go an visit most camps and help, just head there before sunset. Its really an amazing story, turtles travel huge distances and must return to the location where they were born to lay eggs. If a nesting area is consistently destroyed the family will cease to exist.

In Todos Santos/Pescadero by the Pemex on the hiway, Griselda is doing an amazing job with a turtle camp. In La Ventana/Turkesa a group is working, along with a Biologist named Macarena, they have a camp there too.
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 10:18 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by 4baja...they didnt like dogs on the beach...

Yep, there is definately a trend here. No dogs, no tracks, no nothing. Lots of Greenies from Oregon and Washington on this board. How about no Mexicans cluttering up the beaches in Baja too. I don't exactly know what a turtle nest looks like, but in over 50 years of going to Baja, I have never seen one. Why can't those gringos (oops sorry) on the hill leave their laws and rules at home and not bring them to Baja. I clean up when I leave the beach. Hey, what about no smoking on the beaches. I love the beaches in Baja but some of the son of the beaches should stay home in the U. S. There, now I feel much better, thank you.




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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 10:20 AM


Turtles don't nest on 99% of the beaches in Baja. Grunion don't seem to be endangered. How many meters do you two feel all off road vehicles should remain back from all beaches?:lol:



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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 10:21 AM
Beachin Boogie


I've been driving various vehicles on the Beach in Baja since the mid-60s until just two days ago and I will continue to do do for as long as I can without running afoul of the law. My average speed on any given beach is usually around 5 mph regardless of vehicle used. Rather than a recreational pursuit, it is usually a utilitarian activity associated with swimming, fishing or boating.

The current problem is two-fold. First and foremost is TDMP (too damned many people). The second problem is all of the Assheads that drive the beach without regard for anyone or anything. Wait, on second thought, they DO have some regard for others. If there are others on the Beach, they usually go out of their way to be more annoying. They're usually the same A-Head bunch that fire off huge fireworks in the middle of camp. Those people deserve the worst pain and death fate can bestow. Nothing will ever change their behavior, so their prompt dispatch is the only hope.

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by MrBillM]
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 10:40 AM


I appoint Mr. Bill as "Baja's A-Head Terminator Project Control Director":lol::lol:



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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 10:55 AM


heres my two cents. i have been driveing the beaches for 25 years down there and it has never been a problem with the mexicans, only the gringos do once they have built there big homes on the bluffs and dont want to see anybody on (there )beutifull beach. i have allso been told by those same gringos that they didnt like dogs on the beach, thats when i just give them the finger. quads are less destructive then heavy trucks as they only penetrate the sand very little and as sharks says the tide will remove all prints. i try not to drive on the beach now if theres gringos around but out in the middle of nowere you bet. see you on the beach.

4BAJA...Just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate that photo...That is what Baja is about.
I have some opinions about the use of beaches in Baja...Most gringos will not like them, but I will make my point anyway.
I will not dwell on Beach front owners, as they hold the lowest position of beach life...with their Beach grab attempts...about the level of a snake belly. We all need to join forces...they will be the hardest to slap down... Yeah..Yeah, I can hear them now...go ahead and rant...won't do you any good.
The second group presents the most danger and destructive power...plain idiots on quads and sand rails...will not be lumped together with people who lack respect for everything except for their own silliness. The answer is simple...when caught doing sea-do maneuvers on the beach...take their bikes...sell or use in enforcement. Dangerous speeds in a populated area (max limit in the 15mph area) should be a hefty ticket...$500 dollars first offense and double after...1000...2000...believe me you won't need a lot of enforcement. Private enterprise is the way to go...with motion camera/radar to prove the offense of course...Plus with private citizens recording you actives to turn you in...well this world still has real idiots, but that is how it is funded.
I do not believe in riding in sensitive areas...as long as they really are sensitive...remember the beach owner wanta be...
I am all for turtle hugging...we all knowing the season and areas affected...I will not ride then and there...that is little to ask. I will offer that time to help with the protection....


Silence is getting to be a rare commodity these days and people that have loud vehicles that are roaring up and down the beaches for fun should have their own specific areas they can destroy for themselves, and need to learn to respect the rights of others

Well...I agree to an extent as long as this area is not on the beach...there is no reason to be on a beach to be stupid. Silencers should be used on all vehicles....the rest of what you had to say is your opinion and I do not support it. Be careful claiming YOUR RIGHTS....they may not be your.


Quads just make it easy for lazy people to be where they don't need to be in the first place.

You do not have the right to say where someone should be or how they got there...your opinions seldom make sense, but you are entitle to it none the less...think it over...it may change.



I think it is important to remember most people have been coming to Baja to fish and surf...when the urbanites show up they want to change everything...go ahead, be prepared for a great deal of resistance...
Also a fishing license should also be a permit (fee paid to protect the environment)to get to the fishing areas....fishing equipment on the bike is also necessary....:lol:
The last thing I want to point out is weight...loaded campers are in the 2-3 ton range...there is no way they do not compact the beach...they should not be denied access to the beach...driving down/up the beach should be limited...and I think this type of people have enough common sense not to be destructive.
quads are 400-700 lbs...on 10” wide tires @ 4-5 psi...no way they could impact anything...if driven with respect.

If there is some realistic reason you do not think this will work ie...you want the beach to yourself...let us discuss it. Wanta be BEACH owners are not invited...




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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 11:31 AM


Similar argueents can be made for driving on the inland dirt roads. The fact remains that baja has more unpaved roads than paved roads (duh) and people in baja are very accustomed to driving on dirt roads. To block off a beach road solely because it is a beach road is ludicrous. Why not block off the road that gose straight up the arroyo! I'm sure there's similar ecological and environmental damage being done there.

Baja is getting more crowded. Years, decades ago, the typical baja traveler was adventursome, independent, and a practical environmentalist / conservationalist. It was a philosophy borne of necessity. Today, flights are fast and cheap, rental cars are plenty, roads are good, lodging is abundent, and lots of young'uns feel the need to recreate the baja 1000 every chance they get - ergo - there are more idiots in baja.

Yes, the turtles are doomed, as is the typical baja way of life. Have you seen the shantytown just outside Cabo? Have you seen the growth east of San Jose del Cabo? All these people, as well as all the tourists, want to use the beach. Bye bye turtles! Bye bye fishies!

I came to this conclusion back in the '90's. This is why I'm a curmudgeon, and will move my campsite if someone comes within 100 yards of me.

Have I told you about the islands off Papua New Guinea? Man, talk about seclusion! It's a little tough on the 4x4 though......




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Al G
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 11:49 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by The Sculpin

Yes, the turtles are doomed, as is the typical baja way of life. Have you seen the shantytown just outside Cabo? Have you seen the growth east of San Jose del Cabo? All these people, as well as all the tourists, want to use the beach. Bye bye turtles! Bye bye fishies!

I came to this conclusion back in the '90's. This is why I'm a curmudgeon, and will move my campsite if someone comes within 100 yards of me.

Have I told you about the islands off Papua New Guinea? Man, talk about seclusion! It's a little tough on the 4x4 though......


How right you are...this is why the purist live in a world of misery...if they open their eyes they could see the "impossibility" of their position...the need to join the middle road of compormize...Baja will survive for a much greater time. The need for forward thinking and controls is now...




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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 12:03 PM


I agree with you, Al G (you know, when you say it fast it sounds like algea - you're not slimy and green, are you? ok, jk), and my eayes are wide open, but it is for others to do the heavy lifting. I keep going back down, but it becomes less and less enjoyable. I know, it's my problem, but so be it.



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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 12:23 PM


Jeez. I can run and roam all over this planet, the turtles only need a little beach here and there.:yes: Give 'em a little space to lay their eggs.;)
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Al G
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 12:36 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Jeez. I can run and roam all over this planet, the turtles only need a little beach here and there.:yes: Give 'em a little space to lay their eggs.;)

Hummm...you really need to slow down and read what I posted....count me as a turtle hugger. Now your are saying people can go where ever and How ever...:?:
Quads just make it easy for lazy people to be where they don't need to be in the first place.




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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 12:42 PM


Sorry guys, I'm not going to count the turtles out just yet. I think Mexico is going through a period of educating people. I have seen netters taking as many turtles as the could. I've seen locals camp out in nesting areas waiting for the turtles to drop their eggs and then turn them over, steal the eggs and wait in hiding for the next one. That's on one beach and it has been happening for generations. I haven't noticed it in 3 or 4 years. Doesn't mean it isn't going on though. We've even had successful hatches in front of our waterfront homes. and that IS exciting! There is hope. I hope.



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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 12:45 PM


Russ,:D Hope is a good thing.:D
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 12:51 PM
Hope for the Turtles


We ALL want to see them survive.

They are Delicious.
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 01:00 PM


Al G, I don't put you in any catagory. :O My opinion? Everybody has one. You're a Nomad. Hang tuff. Those quads are like remote TV channel selectors. You don't have to get off your butt to go to a new location.:spingrin:Too easy.:spingrin:
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 01:14 PM


Let me weigh in a bit more. Turtles are perhaps the most important aspect for preserving beaches. It is obvious that egg hunters are their major enemy once on the beach. I understand that turtles return to the same areas year after year and these areas are known to many. I would like to hear more about their nesting locations. I would be interested to know how many are sighted(nesting) in and around the Bay of Concepcion.
Can anyone really document or otherwise show or prove that occasional beach travel actually damages the nesting sites. It's mentioned that compaction represents a problem for emerging hatchlings. I'd like to hear more qualitative info on that evaluation. Is it really a problem or is this an educated assumption? I know turtles are pretty stupid because they always return to areas where they have been in harms way before. Many other animals will stop using areas for breeding etc. where human activity disrupts their cycle. Can someone say that turtles pose a problem for drivers on any or all beaches? I've seen a couple large turtles that had come ashore to die but I did not see evidence of egg laying in the area. If eggs are layed at the depths mentioned. I tend to believe they most likely would not be harmed by an ordinary vehicle crusing by. Hoards of traffic is another story.




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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 01:15 PM


The bottom line is a simple choice..... Each one of us has an obligation to do the right thing in regards to respecting the zone where sea meets the land. Its a very spiritual place to watch an enjoy. All the inneraction of every living creaturethat depends on it. The birds and the fish and the turtles and the butterflys and all the flora.Thats why we as hukan biengs want to be their in the first place. Just a nice spot to hang out in. We need to pass this on so our grandchildren can also have a sense of how immense and beautiful our Oceans and beaches are in their unatural and unpolluted state. ++C++
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[*] posted on 8-16-2007 at 01:16 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Russ
Sorry guys, I'm not going to count the turtles out just yet. I think Mexico is going through a period of educating people. I have seen netters taking as many turtles as the could. I've seen locals camp out in nesting areas waiting for the turtles to drop their eggs and then turn them over, steal the eggs and wait in hiding for the next one. That's on one beach and it has been happening for generations. I haven't noticed it in 3 or 4 years. Doesn't mean it isn't going on though. We've even had successful hatches in front of our waterfront homes. and that IS exciting! There is hope. I hope.


No one is counting the turtles out...but you would accomplish a great deal more if you realized most that become turtle huggers are beach front owners. They want to save the turtle...but their real agenda is to own the beach...if the fishermen were heavily involved you would get much better results...do you think the beach front grabbers want us involved???:lol: NOT...they do not want anyone on the beach year around...Turtles are their excuse. first thing to do is license beach fishermen...OPPs beach grabbers won't like that...it would give fishermen a reason and right to be on the beach...they sure don't want that.
I know all this sounds a little over board, but if you do not look at the possibilities you will not find the answers you need....
Also I do not think the Mexican fishermen need to be licensed...they should not be...they do and should be required to have a permit to have their quad on the beach and receive the same fines for being idiots...




Albert G
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