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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Only for a point of reference
Copied from BWO...BCN cops are not the only crooked cops...
Robberies In Todos Santos - After another recent spate of robberies in our "Pueblo Magico," one household having been hit for the 3rd time, I'm
thinking that a little publicity about the problem might light a fire under those in authority that may actually care about the reputation of Todos
Santos and the possible adverse affect on tourism that such publicity will generate. I don't personally know the best avenues for generating this
publicity, but at the very least the Gringo Gazette is pretty widely read as is the Calendario, and oh yeah, the LA Times. Anyway, if you can think of
any way to spread word of this problem in the hopes of getting the police to actually try to stop the problem, please give it a try. I've sent an
email to Carrie@GringoGazette.com so far. Thanks for your help, Karen Haley, khaley3893@hotmail.com, 612-120-8984, Todos Santos
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Crime in Paradise ?
Shocking, absolutely Shocking to find that property crimes exist in a Third-World country filled with Islands of First-World wealth.
What's the matter with people, anyway ? Aren't we supposed to live by the Golden Rule in loving harmony with our fellow beings ?
Well, maybe not.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Good point MrBill...they made a major mistake allowing gringos to own land...they may just want rights too.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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They gave us the right to own land in order to get the money... if they want the money they should give us some rights with that.
This may not be a popular opinion..... but it is only right .
CaboRon
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
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Property rights in Mexico are very high on the list. If the police were doing their job, these thieves would be apprehended and put in jail. Just
because we are foreigners or guests in their country, does not give anyone the right to break in and steal from others. Forty years ago in CSL you
could go fishing and leave your wallet in your room filled with money and it would not be touched. Locks are made to keep people honest. With the
influx of workers from other parts of Mexico this has changed. It really does not matter how much your house costs or if you are rich or poor---people
should not steal from you. I stand with Al G. and Caboron on this issue.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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4baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1339
Registered: 9-4-2003
Location: morro bay ca
Member Is Offline
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here here sharky and shame on you mr bill, just because we own property shouldnt mean to be a target. we all work hard for our money and all treat the
locals with the most respect. thanks for the time.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
They gave us the right to own land in order to get the money... if they want the money they should give us some rights with that.
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Ron....With all due respect, we have the rights which our immigration status guarantees. Limited but, stated.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
They gave us the right to own land in order to get the money... if they want the money they should give us some rights with that.
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Ron....With all due respect, we have the rights which our immigration status guarantees. Limited but, stated. |
Dennis, I am confused...usually we see eye to eye...do the limited rights the immigration status guarantees have anything to do with justice
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Please be specific about the crimes, places, dates, items etc... to the extent possible, the victims should be the ones broadcasting the message,
loudly, with the emotion due to a robbery victim.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Please be specific about the crimes, places, dates, items etc... to the extent possible, the victims should be the ones broadcasting the message,
loudly, with the emotion due to a robbery victim. |
I am not a victim yet..Please read the original post...or read the BWO..
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
They gave us the right to own land in order to get the money... if they want the money they should give us some rights with that.
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Ron....With all due respect, we have the rights which our immigration status guarantees. Limited but, stated. |
Dennis, I am confused...usually we see eye to eye...do the limited rights the immigration status guarantees have anything to do with justice |
We should have equal rights under the law...... And that includes protection from outlaws.... among other things.
CaboRon
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bajadedom
Nomad
Posts: 124
Registered: 12-12-2007
Location: Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ready for a change of latitude...
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Where guns are outlawed - only outlaws will have guns.......
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Shame on ME ?
I love that word "Should".
Yes, we SHOULD be protected by the law. Yes, we SHOULD be treated equally. Yes, the Police SHOULD enforce the laws and they SHOULD try to roundup
the Bad Guys.
No argument there.
However, Life doesn't always work out the way it SHOULD, especially in a third-world environment where endemic corruption at all levels of government
is commonplace.
I don't excuse it or condemn it. I simply accept it as a fact of life and conduct my affairs accordingly.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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I knew what you meant originally...and again I agree 99%.
I even agree with "I conduct my affairs accordingly."
Being a defeatist is not an element of life I can live with...so "I simply accept it as a fact of life" is not agreeable with
me...never.
This attitude is what holds Mexico and it's people in the grip of corruption. Selling it's land to others may be the thing that will free Mexicans of
this disease...at lease at the local level where the gringos are. Gringos can not vote, but they can affect the the feelings of the people who do. No
government is corruption free.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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In Nations around the world are problems of corruption, some obvious and stated and others hidden deep in cofiers of government waste. In any locale,
to report a robbery one needs evidence and facts, as demonstrated by the reporting of the Webber robbery while camping, a gunshot hole in the window,
facts go a long way. Lack of facts force the cause to be stopped short encouraging government malfeasanse.
I love stories, I enjoy to tell them, I imagine many people enjoy hearing them and participating in their retelling, though in the case of dealing
with governments one must choose simple points of fact and pursue these points relentlessly, thus forcing those to act, who would prefer not to.
Avoid the trap of blaming others, less inclined or less talented than yourself to report your facts. Many officials, police in particular have no
skills in reporting, writing or even pen and paper nor gas to make the drive. Combine the lack of inclination with the weight of fear of retribution,
resulting in total incompetence or perfect incompetence depending on your view. Either way the the benefits to police work are few, except that
derived directly from victim requesting action.
Therefore, gather your reports, the evidence, photos, make a booklet, make copies, add the names of the police and officials you encounter, repeat. Go
directly to the office of policia minesterial, poder federal judicial and make your reports directly to the office of robo a casa. Follow through, and
encourage, dont give up and don't get mad, a clear report is the direct path to action fueled by indirect tax-cash.
Imagine you are a pioneer, demonstrating a system never before seen or imagined.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Thanks Gnukid...good info. Tell me do the Mexican citizens need to follow this path too?
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Some do, many don't for fear of more trouble with the cops, and those who do keep visiting the police to check in on a regular basis over time, like
once every week--as though you adding evidence, those who really want action pay the day of the robbery to get the stuff back and get guys put away.
The cops know exactly who the bad guys are, they are in constant contact, you need to pay to put the guy away since there is no room in jail or money
to feed minor criminals. If you can bust them with evidence of selling drugs that would be critical, which is really hard to do.
I think if you are really mad you can just start paying people and the problem will alter into a another problem. I guess insurance for robberies is
worthwhile if you can afford it.
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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It may be great to gather evidence and hand it over to the local investigators but you might consider the following story...I read this in the local
newspaper...
A few years ago a man raped a young women in Tijuana. The police were called. Evidence was collected definitely connecting the man with the rape of
the woman. The woman pressed charges against the man. A trial date was set. At the trial the defense atty. for the man asked the
prosecutor to present their evidence. The prosecutor could not produce any of the evidence because it had been removed from the evidence file and
destroyed! How does this happen? Well the man accused of the rape knew a secretary or office assistant in the investigations office and
paid them to get rid of the evidence. Since the prosecution could not produce the judge had to let the man walk.
My point?...have you ever heard of the word PARADIGM?...it means "a way of thinking".
A number of people on this board speak lofty words on what a victim should or should not do in Mexico after a crime is forced on them. It is because
we all view these situations through the PARADIGM grid that we unconsciously carry with us. Namely the U.S. justice system that we are accustomed to
with all its warts. When I read the rape story above myself for the 1st time it changed my PARADIGM of how the Mexican D.A. offices MAY conduct
themselves when handling evidence.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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All over people don't do their jobs, its the norm, its practically expected and guarenteed that in Mexico they will not prosecute robbers. So, two
options, the preferred is don't call the cops, they will only extort more money, on the other hand the world is changing, you could be a catalyst. If
you want to make government anywhere work, use prolific reporting of specific problems, make copies of the reports, use the anonymous broadcasting,
internet, tv and local news print and gently add to the bottom of the report a summary log of the interaction with officials, and send the report to
various entities.
Never trust that the person responsible will do their job without the threat that they will be guilty themselves for not acting. Gentle force of
action. Now in Mexico, I believe, Mexicans are looking to outsiders to demonstrate this method which most of us are aware of.
How would you get your own city council to act? By threat of embarrassment, threat of law, dogged pursuit.
Oh the third option is private vigilante security, gated communities, also with limited success.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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I might add that in the quest to clean my neighborhood, they have arrested and released and arrested and released Chino--the bad guy, his wife, and
his extended gang so many times now it really is silly, laughable, he still commits crimes daily and spends a few hours in jail at best once a week.
But the bad guys are hiding more, Chino gave up his home, the pressure is building from family and government, though still it follows a simple game,
where the bad guys jump a fence when possible and hide under a mother's bed while the cops stand outside even with orders for apprehension. Hahaha I
dont believe its incompetance as much as a lack of infrastructure of rule of law. I believe these facts will lead to a more permanent solution soon.
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