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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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Morph complete! So, remembering the wise words written to me on another thread, time to jump out. 
Diane
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Mundane chores! We don't need no stinkin' mundane chores!
Now THERE is a morph.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
Posts: 1687
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
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Mood: In love!
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jdtrotter/Diane,
Regarding the MOTM, I have a white horseshoe shaped religious article around my neck as I write this ....
I gave the book to my favorite archaeologist.
Honest (Trust Me) Neal Johns
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Neal Johns
jdtrotter/Diane,
Regarding the MOTM, I have a white horseshoe shaped religious article around my neck as I write this ....
I gave the book to my favorite archaeologist.
Honest (Trust Me) Neal Johns |
---ah yes, you must be ready to chant at the sacred polished porcelain urn while the
spring waters flow.  And, if you bought one of those reproduced wall fragments, it
would fit very well into this topic.
A good friend of mine who is an anthropoligist told me that she decides if she will like a follow researcher by if they like that book or not ---- she
liked working with people who had a sense of humor and could laugh at themselves.
Happy that someone is familar with that little jewel of a book.
Diane
[Edited on 1-29-2008 by jdtrotter]
[Edited on 1-29-2008 by jdtrotter]
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Barbareno
Nomad
Posts: 410
Registered: 11-4-2007
Location: Vernon BC
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Hey I wanna tell ya a story, not sure if it relates to anything here but it is about Indian paintings. And this chaps my hide.
We use to have a cabin at Shuswap Lake here in BC Canada. There were alot of paintings on the rock cliffs that were only accessable to view by boat.
Every year dad would take us over to look at them. We would just sit on the water and let our imaginations run wild. Make up our own story's.
One year we went to view and low and behold there are people actually chipping the paintings off. Guess they figured they would look better in their
living room or den. Dad was fit to be tied. For a minute there I thought he was gonna walk on water.
Anyways....my brother and I were about 7 or 8 years old and decided to play around the cabin. He was a bit of an artist, so we got out the crayons
and pretended to be Indians. I was look out. Along the path to our cabin brother was drawing stick men, teepee's, fish, that sorta thing on the
flat rocks along the walkway. Nothing offensive.
The next day we get a knock on the cabin door. This was totally unusual as friends and neighbors would just holler first and walk in. Mom answered
the door and these two ladies wanted to know how to get to the main road. She told them. And off they went. A little bit later she ask us what we
were doing the day before. We told her we were playing Indians and painting on rocks. She asked us to go see if they were still there.
Nope...they were gone. Mom said they had a bunch of rocks with them and got to thinking. Now how sad is that!
Barb
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DianaT
Select Nomad
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Barb,
That is a GREAT story.
Diane
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3880
Registered: 2-9-2004
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And these kinds of fools are exactly who you don't want to know the locations of rock art sites. David.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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To expand on this highjack...
Does anyone have any experience in "re-habbing" (don't choke Diane  ) abused
rocks? marooons have defaced a roadside outcropping across from our new property in the Shasta Valley and we intend to erase their misdeed.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
To expand on this highjack...
Does anyone have any experience in "re-habbing" (don't choke Diane ) abused
rocks? marooons have defaced a roadside outcropping across from our new property in the Shasta Valley and we intend to erase their misdeed.
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Have Barb and her brother touch them up, then chip them off and sell the fragments.
Diane
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Vag------as a last resort, if you can get the equipment actually to the site, you can rent one of those small sand-blasters and make short work of any
grafitti.
barry
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65285
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
And these kinds of fools are exactly who you don't want to know the locations of rock art sites. David. |
You just might have a point there Cindi!
Seriously, those types probably wouldn't know how to do much more than open a beer, let alone work a GPS or drive off road!
[Edited on 1-29-2008 by David K]
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Wingnut
Nomad
Posts: 171
Registered: 5-5-2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Mood: Baja Pensive
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Interesting thoughts. My family goes back 4 generations in Arizona Ranching and many sites with pre-historic ruins and petroglyphs abounded within the
ranch borders. But, like almost all the old ranching families in Arizona, we kept this information to ourselves. Even to alert University authorities
about the sites, brought large numbers of unwanted treasure hunters and vandals. It seems our government and educational institutions are extremely
leaky about so called protected sites. I don't blame anyone for not sharing the locations of such treasures. But I do urge anyone to take photos for
posterity.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
" if there appears to be no real explanation for something found, ah ha, it often becomes a religious symbol."
Given that "religion" and "symbol" each are amorphous terms, to be interpreted by the beholder, then that statement becomes meaningless.
The graffitti today, taken in context with today's (21st Century) understanding of our natural resources, history and the "improvements" made over the
centuries - i.e., highways versus wagon trails, fences, buildings of worship, society, government - there is absolutely no need for vandals to
spraypaint anywhere.
Early explorers on horseback, sometimes the first white man or European explorer to come into an area on horseback or foot or boat, had something
important to say. It's stated simply and is not ugly and is respected because of the information it provides.
Scribbling with spraypaint borne of one's ego, and only ego satisfaction being the reason for the defacement, is a blow to the higher intelligence
mankind has ostensibly attained.
We have ostensibly learned to appreciate and respect our national parks, wilderness areas, and open spaces and thus, try to leave then as pristine as
we found them. Our open spaces now, compared to what the native americans had, is but a mere small fraction, and requires our attention to keep it
healthy, aesthetic and available in its most natural state for generations to come.
We no longer have to scribble a map on boulders for others to follow - we have maps, roads, highways, GPS.
Most of us no longer worship spirits who dwell within the earth, and try to coax them out for favors through our tribe shaman using pictographs and
petroglyphs in the ceremonies.
We no longer need to engage in ceremonies for fertility, bounteous crops, good weather, etc. - and paint symbolic figures to have such results
bestowed upon us.
We no longer need to record profound historical events by using the only permanent "blackboard" or "newspaper" available (rock faces).
We no longer need to mark our territorial boundaries or identify our tribe affilliation with figures on rock faces.
Therefore, ancient rock messages which had a legitimate purpose it its day, does not apply today. Todays graffitti has absolutely no correlation with
the ancient rock messaging of the past.
In sum, no, today's graffitti on rocks in areas where there should be none serves no legitimate purpose. It is a crime, nothing more. Stretching the
term "art" for art's sake as applied to graffitti, it should not be inflicted upon the general public on public land violating today's mores when it
has other acceptable venues. |
bump
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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I like naked Ladies!
Yes....I hate painted trash on nature. Much less on buildings. Reading this post, I remember the UPROAR of the story below. Those of you in your 50's
living in the L.A. basin will remember this. It hit the Look (or Life) Magazine too (I believe).
One Saturday morning, on October 29, 1966, a massive 60-foot-tall painting of a nude pink lady holding flowers suddenly appeared as you headed into
the tunnel on Malibu Canyon Road.
As word of the massive pink lady spread, and the traffic on the highway grew to a halt, city officials decided “The Pink Lady” had to be removed.
Firefighters were called to hosing her off the rocks. It didn’t work. Buckets of paint thinner were thrown on the rocks. It only made her pink skin
pinker.
As county officials worked on figuring out a way to remove The Pink Lady, a 31-year-old paralegal from Northridge, a woman named Lynne Seemayer,
suddenly showed up on the road and admitted that she was the artist who did the piece.
Seemayer said that she was annoyed by the graffiti that was all over the canyon wall (“Valley Go Home” was a memorable slogan) and so, over a 10 month
period, she started to secretly climb up under the moonlight and suspended herself by ropes to remove the graffiti.
At 8 P. M. on October 28 Seemayer painted the Pink Lady using ordinary house paint. By dawn it was done.
The Pink Lade lasted only a week. Seemayer sued LA county for $1 million for the destruction of her work, and the county counter-sued for $28,000 in
removal costs. Since the painting was on private property, both cases were dismissed by the court.
zemor.net
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Thanks forgotten all about that one....
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
My 2 cents:
When I beat my way thru the tamarisk on the Green River after disembarking from my canoe and saw "D. Julien 1836" written on the red rock wall, I
cannot tell you how thrilling I found that inscription. This inscription is believed to be the oldest "white man" inscription in the west, Julien
being a French voyageur who wandered the west way back when.
I have no similar wish to "connect" with people that are living now, and appear to have no respect for others property rights, or the natural scene,
and are only boasting of the fact that they even exist, and to heck with what others think.
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You make two very interesting points, Barry. The first was the thread through history that a simple graffitti can leave, connecting you to a fellow
adventurer from the past.
Next, you criticize one of your contemporaries for doing the same thing this fellow Julien did: he disrespected the property rights of Native
Americans living in the region and spoiled the natural beauty of the scenery.
Having said that, I totally agree with your points. While in New Mexico, we once visited a similar rock at a water hole, and I felt as you must have.
And I hate seeing what has been done along the highway at places like Cataviña. And yet (and here's where logic ceases to be a factor), as I noted on
another thread on this topic, when I'm traveling down sections of the Old Road and come on that pre-1973 graffiti, I have to say that I get a similar
feeling, only more personal since I had the honor of having ridden over that section of highway when it was in daily use.
I do respect the really old graffiti more because it had to be pecked or rubbed into the rock face--quite a bit less convenient than a can of spray
paint. And yet, I think that what differentiates contemporary graffiti that we might hate from older stuff that we approve of is chiefly one of time.
Given enough time, even that ugly scrawl on that rock will be a thrilling discovery for some.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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That's a very salient point. And it speaks to the cultural changes that occur over time. Not much different than contemporary music, another form of
art. How many of you, when growing up, were harangued by your parents about the type of music you enjoyed. Time moves on. The culture changes. And in
whatever epoch, someone's art is another's garbage.
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