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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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Right on!!!!
You are right Baja&Back, personal observation beats arm chair bigotry every time.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
Member Is Offline
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RIGHT OFF!!!!
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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Menso,
"...there is no evidence that U.S. citizens are specifically targeted... In its effort to combat violence, the Government of Mexico has deployed
military troops in various parts of the country. U.S. citizens are advised to cooperate with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways."
'duo, not surprised to see you respond to a note on bigotry. It is a true call to arms for you. Your link reinforces (see above) what has been said
on this forum by the non-bigots. Baja&Back still has it right - common sense. Ugly Americans can't understand this lofty concept.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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Barry,
Shoot the messenger
It is unfortunate that your business is hurting from the news/facts, as well as the income of the Baja locals affected.
Those of us who love the Baja will return ... some with eyes wider open and some with rose-tinted views.
I love the Baja but my wife won't return as she was robbed by a taxi driver (operating a van from the Zocalo church in San Jose) and dumped on the
highway by the airport in 2000.
My last month-long trip there last winter was excellent, and the only theft experience was at a Barbeque steakhouse in La Paz that charged my buddy
$40 for a "Cowboy Steak" (the special which was a tough flank steak)....
The crime in Baja has deterred tourists, not the reporter or the newspaper.
Who you going to punch for reporting the murders (gang related, mostly) in Vancouver ?
Enjoy the Baja, but keep the assaults to a minimum
Don't believe everything you think....
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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There's way more violence in the USA than in Mexico, but at least in the USA you can carry a gun to take out a bad guy or two. Might give 'em some
second thoughts, makes easy pickens not so easy.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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A messenger delivers the message without changing it to their bias, so no shooting is needed. Shoot the distorter and inflamer.
Boycott San Fernando Valley, Irvine, Pleasanton, Las Vegas and all of Arizona.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja&Back
She must really hate Mexico for some reason. Her/their sensationalistic & overblown articles, |
Like what? Show us one that is more hyperbole than cold fact.
How is your business doing?
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja&Back
Y'know, I just got back from 4 weeks in Baja today, and maybe tomorrow I will go down to the Trubune newspaper in San Diego and punch Sandra Dibble
& her reporter friends right in the noses!
She must really hate Mexico for some reason. Her/their sensationalistic & overblown articles, repeated across the USA, have almost singlehandedly
reduced tourism in Baja by 30 percent. We were saddened to see tourist-related businesses & beach vendors that we've known for 6 years, being
unable to feed their families properly due to the tourist downturn she's caused. 
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http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=184000
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SDRonni
Nomad
Posts: 481
Registered: 8-28-2006
Location: Serra Mesa/Rosarito
Member Is Offline
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I, for one, am grateful to see these issues reported. And I don't understand how you can say things aren't reported in the US. I read about the
local crime every day, yet I can go to the grocery store or mall here w/o feeling I may be specifically targeted for a crime.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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SDRonni, Just depends on where you're shopping.
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Baja&Back
Senior Nomad
Posts: 549
Registered: 9-10-2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada / todo de Baja
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rarin' to go South!
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Several of you folks have made comments about my business hurting. My business is doing just great. I have people waitlisted to go to Baja, in spite
of the "news" articles.
My point was about those poor beach vendors dismay at finding 10 RVs at Santispac beach when there are usually 50. Shopkeepers with no tourist sales
all day. RV parks & restaurants half empty in high season. They're the ones I feel bad for. They can't get food stamps when times are bad.
And, sorry, Motoged, the small amount of crime in Baja is not scaring people off, it really IS the overblown reporting from the Union-Tribune paper.
They have sensationalized isolated crime incidents in Baja for at least the last 5 years that I know of, personally.
The situation parallels the Florida rest area killings years back. One person killed several tourists in one small area of Hwy 75, and the national
media created a thunderstorm. A hundred thousand tourists stayed away from the entire state of Florida, crippling it's tourist economy. Mismo aqui.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by Baja&Back
Several of you folks have made comments about my business hurting. My business is doing just great. " |
B&B,
Glad your business is doing well....seriously.
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And, sorry, Motoged, the small amount of crime in Baja is not scaring people off, it really IS the
overblown reporting from the Union-Tribune paper. They have sensationalized isolated crime incidents in Baja for at least the last 5 years that I
know of, personally. |
Don't be sorry....I would place a wager that Baja crime is WAY under-reported...and if any reporters "sensationalize", they are appealing to those who
would likely not go anyway. Mexico has a long history of being presented in the press as a dangerous place to travel....and Hollywood has
historically tended to characterize Mexicans as much less than they are as good people.
Good luck with your trips.
Don't believe everything you think....
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: |
Interpretation of Current Events
To start off, I am not trying to start a debate over what has been reported in the last few months regarding the on goings in Tijuana, Rosarito and
the road in between. I make it a practice of driving down to our house in southern Baja at least twice a year. That time is coming up for me.
I just wanted to get a consensus of what your opinions might be regarding the safety of the drive in the " alleged targeted" sections of Highway 1. I
have made the drive at least 25 times in the past without incident. My normal routine is to drive from my house in the Bay Area, cross the border
around 12:00pm and stop in Rosarito or Ensenada for the night. I guess I am asking for recent experiences of Nomads traveling in the daylight hours
and those of our friends who currently live in these areas of reported events. Suggested alternate routes, stopping points, etc.... would be helpful.
I appreciate any & all input regarding any experiences you may have had recently. I will report on my experience after I arrive in my destination.
Thanks,
Mike
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in my best homer simpson interpretation-
"We're all gonna die!............"
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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The number of 26 kidnapped who are from San Diego in 2007 is the reported number. The actual number of kidnappings unreported is higher. After the
police kidnap you, and extort you are you going to report to the police? Not to mention report here to be attacked and ridiculed for sensationalizing
crime.
Then there are also false kidnappings which have a similar effect. In Mexico City there are gangs who demand ransom for kidnapping victims only no one
was kidnapped. Its just attempt to scare people into paying, which affects us here too. Of my friends in University here in Baja who are from Mexico
City, periodically their parents will get a call from people who claim they kidnapped their kid and demanding a ransom. The parents start calling
around to check for them and if the parents can't locate their kid they panic and start collecting ransom money, meanwhile the kids are on a camping
field trip having fun in Baja.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
The actual number of kidnappings unreported is higher. |
Must be helpful to support one's position with things that are made up? 
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Not to mention report here to be attacked and ridiculed for sensationalizing crime.
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Can you imagine how many kidnapped people in Mexico are not reporting the crime, just because they would get ridiculed on this Board? Sounds serious.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Look you could be more open minded and supportive of the victims however many? Can you imagine the feeling inside you would have if you were a victim?
Its not very fun and not something we know how to handle.
Speaking up here or anywhere about kidnapping doesn't make it any easier.
In fact, calling the police seems to usually make things go worse in mexico with more bribes and more problems.
And posting about serious problems like that here tends to go into abuse mode pretty quickly too.
Why don't you lay off the abuse and the nonsense. Its totally inappropriate of you to ridicule kidnap victims or their numbers. Its disgusting.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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I think the fact that 18 of 159 Rosarito Beach Police were recently fired after ballistics tests showed they had criminal involvment speaks volumes.
When over 10% of the people who you are supposed to call in an emergency are PROVEN corrupt, why would you call the police at all after being
victimized there? The Army has asked Americans to call them directly, period. All I have ever hear of is people getting the royal run-around when
they try to report a crime anyway. They just give up and go back home for good.
How many parents do you think know they will be sending their kids off to Rosarito Spring Break '08 when there is no police force? Do you think
they're goning to give their kids their birth certificates (or passports) and say "have fun in Mexico kids"? The Rosarito clubs blamed last years
tourist slowdown to the fact that Iggy no longer paid for the marketing (since he was hiding stateside from kidnappers). This year wil be worse.
I'm also curious who the six kidnap vistims found dead were in that police shootout. ALso there were two female real estate agents freed from
kidnappers- who were they and who possibly could make enough money selling real estate in that market to be worth kidnapping? The only transaction I
hear of in Rosasrito are people trying to get their deposits back.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I think the fact that 18 of 159 Rosarito Beach Police were recently fired after ballistics tests showed they had criminal involvment speaks volumes.
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Is that it? They were holding smoking guns and all they got was fired? No arrests.......just fired. That speaks volumes as well but, I don't know
what it's saying.
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governor
Newbie
Posts: 16
Registered: 9-30-2007
Member Is Offline
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They probably got demoted to tourist cops
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I think the fact that 18 of 159 Rosarito Beach Police were recently fired after ballistics tests showed they had criminal involvment speaks volumes.
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Is that it? They were holding smoking guns and all they got was fired? No arrests.......just fired. That speaks volumes as well but, I don't know
what it's saying. |
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Baja&Back
Senior Nomad
Posts: 549
Registered: 9-10-2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada / todo de Baja
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rarin' to go South!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Baja&back
Could you help us understand the details better, since from personal experience it seems many of us would fear a problem with cops hunting down
tourists for mordida for nearly always false charges in the area of TJ, Ensenada and Rosarita, in recent days there are reports of shootouts between
cops (good and bad).
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20080118-2...
Note if you read this report about the 3 hour shoot out it says that of the 10 people inside (bad guys?) two were reported to be police though after
checking only one is confirmed to be police.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20080118-2...
Are you complaining about sensationalism of these reports? And could you let me know which is fake and which is true since you have more experience
and knowledge there. Thanks |
These incidents are reported with the inference that they affect us personally, as tourists, and that OUR lives are in danger when crossing the
border. They don't, just as drug killings & bank robberies with automatic weapons here at home very rarely affect our lives. (Some guy back east
just shot 4 cops & a judge over parking tickets last week.) Staying at home is the Ostrich Syndrome. Taking your Common Sense (just how common is
it?) with you is the way to go.
Now, talking about Transito cops hitting you up, that happens to us at least once a tour. They also try it in Constitucion (consistantly) & La
Paz. It's expected & annoying, like beach vendors in your face. Acting like a dumb tourist & outlasting the cop is the most effective
approach. If they're too persistant, demanding to pay at the police station & getting a receipt is next. I've never heard of a cop pulling his
weapon for mordida in Mexico, altho I have been robbed at gunpoint by a cop in Thailand. Wouldn't hesitate to visit Thailand again over it.
Motoged has a real good point. Mexico has always gotten the "Bloodthirsty Injin" treatment in the US. The State Dept has perpetually had travel
advisories out on Mexico. On the other hand, the Canadian gov't advises that the most violent & crime ridden countries in the world to visit are
the USA, England, Australia & New Zealand! What the heck does a tourist do???
Go see the real Baja (not border towns), the last bastion of the frontier west, where most folks are polite, respectful, and would share their last
tortilla with you!
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