Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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How much should I pay?
How Much Should I Pay?
Our little village in Baja Sur is booming. Probably 50 new gringo dwellings are in the process of springing up all over the pueblo. Most labor and
building materials are available locally; cement, block, masons, painters, plumbers, electricians, etc.
Locally means they are all available IN THE VILLAGE – somebody has already brought them in from La Paz or Los Cabos. So it follows that prices are
unique, have little bearing on what people pay in the big cities except for transportation costs on some special items or services we don’t have.
Each newcomer finds his way around this little place inquiring of anyone he deems a gringo homeowner as to what he should be paying as a fair price at
his new homestead. The process requires some social skills and patience – it comes down to “who to believe about what”. Many times I’m roped into
the process when gringos ask me to translate between them and a local purveyor of goods or services. Sometimes it is a struggle for me to stay
neutral especially when the gringos demand almost everything for next to nothing and they need it pronto.
Then there are a few times when I want work done around my place. Over time I’ve learned that it’s best to offer what I think is a fair price rather
than expect the seller/workman to name a set price. Other times for small jobs I order the work done, see it through and then pay what I think is
fair. I always ask “is this enough?” and pay attention to the language and the body language. So far nobody has quit working for me – that is,
refused to do the same kind of work a second time (even without money being discussed) so I must be guessing right or overpaying a little.
I’ve been here long enough now to see this overpaying around here as “My Job”. I have taken it upon myself to spoil every Mexican who can wield a
trowel or push a rake to make up for the fact that most gringos I meet think the Mexicans are “out to cheat them” – many of my gringo neighbors will
not willingly pay one centavo more than they have to for any kind of work, goods or services. Sometimes the gringos in this exercise forget the axiom
“You get what you pay for” – there are well-raked yards or not, well-laid block walls and others.
I think someday, most, if not all, of the gringos will catch on, stop coming by my place to ask me to translate for them. Maybe the word will get
around that when I’m not translating, when I’m just talking one on one, on my patio with the Mexican sellers/workmen I’m advising them on how to avoid
being shortchanged or cheated by the gringos.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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how much do you have? it's all relative, amigo!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Not this time Woody. Nothing is relative here. Some of these gringos are millionaires but turn workers away for pennies on the dollar, show no
common sense or courtesy about how they spend their money down here.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
I’ve been here long enough now to see this overpaying around here as “My Job”. |
You are my kind of decent person, Jorge. I never pay anybody too much but, it seems to be a lot more than others around here pay them.
The man who I have employed for two years on my house gets paid whether he works or not. He's my friend. My neighbors and other aquaintences say I
spoil him and workers in general. I tell them to kiss my bare butt although, I use words which wouldn't get through the machine alive.
You're a good man, George. Do what you do and shame on those who think otherwise. They have no heart....They have no soul.
You have an abundance of all of that.
Don't ever change.
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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All gringos overpay.
Or at least this one does. It's just expected. When we went into one of the segundos recently, my wife got to talking with one of store owners. She
told Ana to come alone and keep me out of sight. As soon as they see me the price shoots up. Just the way it is.
Neither of us are very good negotiators. We'll work them a bit on the price but I'm sure that most workers and shopkeepers are pleased with the 'deal'
when selling us either labor or product. I really don't expect the best deal in town, but we do expect good products and/or good work for our money.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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Impossible to over pay if you are happy with the work. Good for you Jorge!
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Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
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It's good to see that you take care of the locals. A little bit from us goes a long way for them.
It's important to talk and be friendly with others; especially, when (as gringos) we are their guest. All people, regardless of language spoken, have
the ability to understand who cares about them and who doesn't. The quality of work or services you receive is often reflected on the amount of
respect you give and in turn, earn.
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Acuity
Nomad
Posts: 195
Registered: 5-26-2005
Location: Comox, BC, and Todos Santos
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I think it is important to show respect for the residents, and pay fairly. We treat our neighbor, who is our gardener/handyman, as a friend, and he
treats us well in return. Having said that, there are several workers here who treat Gringos (all assumed to be Americans) with the same contempt as
they are handed by some Gringos (the millionaires who want things dirt cheap because 'this is Mexico"), and will rip you off at any opportunity - on
the assumption that we all have unimaginable wealth.
It's hard to navigate, unless you know the people, have references, and know the going rate.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13050
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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thank you for your insights Osprey...good man...it's all sliding scale here, meaning it all depends on who YOU are, if you are patient, understanding,
good hearted, who the workers are, what the job is...if you give them lots of work...it pays to pay a bit better...tip...spoil your workers as it
will win you loyalty and respect. Now, translating for others is a royal pain and I found can be damaging...if you are the middle man and the gringo
is paranoid and suspicious...things go badly for everyone...you can't win...not good for your relations with the locals. I have become much more
careful now with whom I help as it can backfire....gringos think you are in cahoots with the workers to charge them more etc....also everything is
going up in price so what someone paid for a septic system a few months ago is much more now...or what one guy pays for something may be different
from what another one pays...prices here vary according to circumstance and honour!!! very tricky stuff.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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It is not always contempt that shows through -- Mexican merchants and others learn from repetition. Say a merchant has two things that do the same
thing; one is superior quality and the other is not -- one is cheap, the other is pricey. The merchant thinks gringos want/need/demand the best.
Even us pobres on SS will find some way, borrow, save, credit, etc. to buy the one we want -- POOR MEXICANS DON'T HAVE THAT CHOICE. After the
merchant sees that a hundred times he learns to only offer you the high priced spread.
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Bob and jane
Nomad
Posts: 272
Registered: 3-25-2004
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Osprey,
Thank you. Thank you, Osprey. We have felt that way for a long time. I remember years ago I was told by some gringa in Mulege not to tip the locals
too much, "we don't want to spoil them." Thirty years ago traveling around Mexico and Central America I was constantly confronted by young people who
would say I was "ruining it for everyone else" if I didn't bargain vendors down to the pennies. We have few pennies to throw around but our life here
in Mexico is not about "us" and "them". We're all human beings here. We share what we have, go out of our way to tell people how much we appreciate
them, pay what is agreeable to all of us. We all get along great.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Time to reprise an oldy but goody
Just Kidding
Newcomers I have met recently, here in this little corner of Mexico, have all had one thing in common. They have a deep-seated and abiding need to
enjoy a bargain in every product and service they buy. Their joy or discontent seems to hinge on whether they got the very best "bang for the buck"
(in this case peso) on cement work, gardening, the purchase of a product, comestible; ownership, right to quietly enjoy every conceivable kind of
house, boat, car, trailer, fishing rod, etc., etc. Not just a fair price but a price much lower than any paid by their neighbors or contemporaries.
Their compulsion is never more visible than when they hire things done, at their homes, by Mexicans. The women actually have ad hoc meetings about
what they should pay young Ramons or Javiers to weed and water. If Maria cleans the houses of adjacent neighbors, it is of utmost importance that she
be paid the same by each homeowner.
The idea is to pay not one puny centavo more than is absolutely necessary to satisfy (and keep employed) the young and able who are willing to clean,
rake, paint, water, plaster, without interruption; those who will take the money in a calloused, sweaty palm with a smile and a kind of bowing of the
head, walk into the sunset. In this environment it is dangerous to overpay. Anyone caught overpaying will not be seen at future meetings; their
names might be mentioned in statements made by those who use rough language.
God has dropped me into this garden to play. What a chance for a little good-natured fun. I am patient. I wait until they are gathered; dinners,
c-cktail parties, birthdays. It starts slowly:
I open with "We just hired a new gardener. His name is Manuel, Cristo's son. He's about 17 or 18. Still in school. So we just have him working
weekends."
Then I wait for THE QUESTION.
"Is he any good? What are you paying him?"
My remarks are not meant to scold, hurt. They might be said to be "little left jabs of satire", not harmful roundhouse blows. I guess I am trying
to be "mirror man" -- show them how they really look (full length, front).
"Well, he seems to do a good job. He works two hours Saturday and two Sunday. I hope I'm not overpaying him, spoiling him, but he is good...and
he's a nice kid. I give him a hundred bucks a month." I talk right over the gasps. "I got a new truck this summer so I gave him my old Ford. He
loves the 4 wheel drive. It's an 89, in pretty good shape.”
“Also I set aside some money each month for a scholarship. If his grades are good next year maybe we might be able to get him a student visa, use
some of my clout at U.C., my old alma mater, to get him in. Lynda says we are doing too much. I think she's right. I've decided to cut back on his
seafood buffets at the hotel and I’ll cut his masseuse visits way back to once a month. When I tell him, he's not going to be happy.”
“I can handle that. I'll get him a helper."
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islandmusicteach
Junior Nomad
Posts: 78
Registered: 4-30-2007
Location: catalina island
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Mood: almost in baja
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This is definitely food for thought. I think the bottom line for me is that you cannot buy respect from anyone, Mexican or otherwise, but you can
rent it for a short while as long as the money holds out. Being fair in your dealings with others will always earn you respect, though.
- Marko
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by islandmusicteach
This is definitely food for thought. I think the bottom line for me is that you cannot buy respect from anyone, Mexican or otherwise, but you can
rent it for a short while as long as the money holds out. Being fair in your dealings with others will always earn you respect, though.
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The fact is, that if you treat the Baja natives as equals and don't give them the feeling that you consider them inferior in any way, they'll treat
you the same way. Nothing wrong with bartering ( a way of life in many countries, Europe included ) as long as you don't get ridiculous.
We have the same people working with/for us for years and when we have to call for unknown help and feel taken advantage of afterwards, we just don't
use them again and spread the word.
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larry
Nomad
Posts: 233
Registered: 8-22-2005
Location: Orinda, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Just Kidding
use some of my clout at U.C., my old alma mater, to get him in. |
If you are talking about UC Berkeley, you don't have any clout--but I agree with the rest of your sentiments. Very well said.
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