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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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Is it me or?
The moderators are getting a little picky with some people and letting others post what ever they want? i been a member since the amigo board in the
late 1990's and i have never seen this or the late amigos board so picky about stuff posted. Is this the reason many old timers who posted valuable
info don't bother to post here anymore?
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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Jesse, I imagine that it's a combination of the Moderators doing their jobs based on attempting to enforce the clearly stated 'Board
Rules'....AND....people who are offended by language or content either sending a U2U to Doug or Hose A or simply hitting the report button.
I sincerely doubt that Doug and/or Hose A has the time to monitor every single post made on every single thread on their own 24-hours a day, so I'm
guessing that they depend heavily on input from other members. I have occasionally read posts that I personally felt SHOULD have
been edited or deleted but weren't...I'd also guess that there are "habitual offenders" whose posts might be monitored more than others, but that's
merely a guess on my part.
I've only been on here about 2 years, but I've also noticed a distinct change in the "flavor" of posts, and I honestly believe that many of the "old
timers" as you referred to them got disgusted & left because of a lack of posts being edited....rather than the fact that they are occasionally
edited. But this is all supposition on my part, maybe Doug and/or Hose A will chime in.
I know there's a huge hunk of the membership here who deplore edits of any kind based on the right of free speech & self policing/monitoring, but
I don't agree with them (because I don't believe that works), just as they don't agree with my thoughts on the subject. We all have a right to our
own opinion, so please don't blast me for having offered up my thoughts in response to Jesse's post!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Jesse;
I too feel that the the Board has changed in the past years. Maybe that it is a reflection of the change of so many Posters who have never been to
Baja?
Lack of knowledge and Esperience? Bored with their Life, needing Attention, Etc.
When I see an obivious Post that is totally False, I would like to give imput about the FACTS, but many seem to base their judgements on thinking that
it is a Religious matter.
Seems to reflect the Current Mood of some of our Young Citizens, as if they are Afraid of something.
Putting People Down, Name Calling, Snide remarks about those that you disagree seems to reflect the "Ignorance" of those Posters.
I have even started looking for other Websites such as "The Amigos Board" which seems to be a Copy of this Board.
Just remember that Words or Just Words, people actions are the final Judgement.
Skeet/Loreto
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13050
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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What I find interesting and tragic is that most of the folks who visit us admit to being lurkers on Nomads. They all express the same sentiments that
they would like to post but don't for fear of being hassled, insulted, mocked etc. These nice people may have something interesting to add to this
board, good information or opinions and we don't hear from them because of a small minority of posters who's main contributions are insults or mudd
slinging....too bad...I try to convice folks to post in attempt to improve the quality and tone of this board... We ARE the board and the board is US
so we should theoretically be able to improve the climate here. Although I am all for free speech, I am grateful to the moderators for taking the time
to try to make this board better.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65300
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Jesse, it is because not enough of the hate and insults was being removed... If it would be a place to read or share about Baja trips and experiences
without the personal insults, then more folks would contribute instead of just 'lurk' here.
Doug does not like to remove anything and would hope that Nomads could show enough maturity to not need anyone to babysit... However, Nomad has grown
soooo big, it is quite a task... So he and Hose A would appreciate it if you saw a violation of a board rule (such as foul language, personal insults,
etc.) that you hit the report button.
I opersonally believe it is that Doug allowed so much bad stuff to continue that many of the 'old timers' simply didn't need to wade through the
fighting anymore. Perhaps now, with Hose A and the rest of us who want to continue to learn and share more here, it will be a happy place again.
There is far more good than bad, and I think if you look at the Nomad get-togethers, like the Matomi caravan or Viva Baja Cactus or Ferna's Dia de los
Reyes you can see that is true.
I encourage lurkers to share their trips or questions, and realize there are some who want to spoil the fun or rain on your parade... it happens to me
a lot, and you just have to move on and not let the few spoil it for the many!
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Acuity
Nomad
Posts: 195
Registered: 5-26-2005
Location: Comox, BC, and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Craving sleep!
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I have noticed, recently, a change in the nature of some of the discussions here that I find troubling. Many of the discussions that generate the
most views and postings seem to become a vehicle for personal accusations and innuendos that do not, in my view, add value nor encourage others to
share their valuable experiences. It is a great pity, as the board has been a great source of information and pictures that I, for one, have found
very useful.
Perhaps it is too much to ask that everyone acts like an adult?
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baja-spirit
Junior Nomad
Posts: 82
Registered: 1-11-2008
Member Is Offline
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I think David K and Shari hit the nail on the head. There is more good than bad. I am a newbie and some of the postings I have read makes me feel
that some of the people posting their remarks, either have never been to Baja or never see the good side of things. I love reading the experiences of
other travelers to Baja. The pictures they post are fanastic and I really enjoy them. We love our experiences and our travels all around. We have
been going to Baja since 1986 and will continue to go until we are just too old. When I start to read negative remarks, I just back out. No ones
going to rain on my parade. There's good and bad everywhere. Any bad experience we just chalk it up to a lesson learned. We have never had anything
really very bad(things stolen), but I have had that here when I am gone to Baja. So I will continue enjoying the good here.... Thanks Nomads!!
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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This is a problem that is also found outside the BajaNomad. The board merely reflects the changing of our culture which has turned decidedly abusive
and rude in recent times.
We need to get a couple of things clear here: Whereas I am liberal and do not like to see censorship, The BajaNomad is a privately established entity
with a set of rules that the owner and moderators have every right to enforce. It is their vision and that vision attempts to reflect the greater
mores of a predominately civil society. On the other hand, there are classless individuals who are bullies and cannot find any other way to
express their inadequacies, other than to be rude, crude and belittle others. When they attack me, I will deal with it.....or not. I prefer they not
be censored but if they are, that is OK with me.
Most Nomads are good people who love to exchange Baja experiences and knowledge. Their help is given generously and warmly welcomed. Those who would
like to attack and offend would never be welcomed to my house nor join me for dinner in a nice restaurant. Their surly spirit of exclusion only serves
to get them excluded.  Why would I want to share any time with such bores?
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Context
It certainly can be frustrating to try to make a point only to have your comment taking out of context. It happens all the time and it's an easy slope
to tumble down. People can get all worked up for nothing.
It really irks me when an excerpt of a comment is sliced and diced and spread out in attempt to embarrass or disqualify the poster.
Mostly tho from what I see is a conflict of writing style and comprehension. How many times do you feel that "they" or "he" or "she" missed the
point.
Case in point: I made a post a while back. It contained a pic of a Jesus Christ statue. The thread was immediately hijacked for some unknown reason
and lost value and the interest it was supposed to generate. Someone made the comment that the only reason it got so many views was because of the
hijack. That was nice. Later I was trying to be witty by exclaiming "Jesus is dead".
Now, can you understand WHY I said that? The comment wasn't intended to be directed at religion, it was to infer that my thread (Jesus}was dead.
Could it be resurrected? Hardly.
Not always easy to explain a simple statement. That's why these days I try to keep it real simple. Nobody likes to be taken out of context.
Shari, I know what you mean about lurkers. You need a thick skin here.
Tony, this board has had rudeness, bullying and abuse from day one.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Jack Swords
Super Nomad
Posts: 1095
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Nipomo, CA/La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
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Jesse: had a great meal at Tres Virgines last Sunday with 15 friends. Sorry we missed you.
Relative to the direction the board has taken, I'm interested in Baja, period. Too few postings are about Baja and many of those slip into a thread
unrecognizable as relating to Baja. As an "oldtimer" from the Amigos days, I have carefully refrained from posts that have little to do with what I
perceive as the intent of this forum. Opinions, reviews, travel logs about Baja are of interest to someone. Name calling, personal attacks, etc.
are not. The other day I referred an acquaintance to this board for information. His response the next day was he preferred to avoid that type of
contact. Why not a board about Baja with all its diversity? There is plenty of that. Some folks seem to lurk and wait to stir up things. It
appears that is the intended result, not acquiring or sharing information and experiences about Baja.
I'm in Baja now and have no desire to engage anyone in conflict. That is not what it is about to me. Other sites seem to still be rather civil and
therefore informative. Sadly I think my participation in this forum is over.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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This is a Baja forum and I personally do not see why we have an Off Topic, because I think some of that trash carries over to here. Please do away
with the Off Topic. Some of you will try to defend the Off Topic but keep just one thing in Mind it is not Baja.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Seems to me that the good stuff; advice, info etc. , is given a green light. The negativity and name calling gets sent to wherever stuff like that generally winds up.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65300
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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There is an off topic board here because Doug does not want to censor free speech... regardless if this is a private property issue or not. Because
some Nomads have more than just Baja to share, the off topic forum is the 'litter box' for all of that stuff.
If it is not about Baja or Baja Nomads, then it goes to off topic... and nobody needs to see it or look there to see the rest of the Baja forums. Just
click on 'Today's Posts' at the top of the page and see all the Baja posts, and no off topic posts.
Jack, this is the most active Baja forum on the 'net... and your contributions are greatly appreciated. Please don't disappear... Your photos on the
missions or other historic sites are very valuable to historic research or interest in old California.
Jack's photos can be seen on the following two web sites:
http://vivabaja.com/bajamissions
http://vivabaja.com/swords
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Natalie Ann
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2819
Registered: 8-22-2003
Location: Berkeley
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
The moderators are getting a little picky with some people and letting others post what ever they want? i been a member since the amigo board in the
late 1990's and i have never seen this or the late amigos board so picky about stuff posted. Is this the reason many old timers who posted valuable
info don't bother to post here anymore? |
I do not think that the moderators discriminate against some folks and favor others. The view from here is that edits/deletes by moderators are
mostly of name-calling and unpleasantness that has no place here. If you have had a post edited or deleted lately, perhaps it would be good to
consider what might have been the moderators' reason(s) for doing so.
Besides the fact that the board does have rules to guide our behavior here, awhile back it also added a Teen column and invited under-age people to
read and contribute. When we all agreed that inviting teens was a good idea, we also agreed to police our own behavior.
When we do not police our own behavior and begin name-calling or making insulting remarks, there seem to be other members willing to hit the report
button in order to bring our behavior to the attention of the Super Moderators Doug and Hose A. I assume they know the forum rules by heart.... and
if the reported post does not comply - poof! into the ether.
It is easy to hark back to the days of the old Amigos board.... I enjoyed it along with the rest of us 'oldies'. But the board folded suddenly for a
reason, and my understanding is that at least part of that reason was that it just took too much time to ride herd on everyone and everything, as well
as to keep the site functioning properly.
Doug and Gene/Hose A are doing a marvelous job here.... and I for one would like to offer my thanks to them.
Besides, it's bad form to eat at a restaurant and criticize the owner for doing his job.
Nena
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
.....Oscar Wilde
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jack Swords
Sadly I think my participation in this forum is over. |
Mine as well Jack, its been a good 5 years but this is no fun anymore, take care everybody.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65300
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Jesse, what is it you want for fun???
You think free wheeling personal attacks and chasing away mature people is good? I am confused as to what you hope to have happen here.
Has Baja Nomad not been benificial to your needs for Baja info., friends, business??? Take a break from posting if something is bugging you, but
there's no reason to run away, okay amigo?
Remember when we met? It was because of Nomads like BajaCactus, jrbaja, Baja Noamd, Baja Bernie, and I ... Here you are that day talking with Bernie
as Doug (Baja Nomad) listens...
[Edited on 2-19-2008 by David K]
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The Sculpin
Nomad
Posts: 401
Registered: 9-3-2002
Location: Back in the Saddle
Member Is Offline
Mood: Riding into the Sunset, looking for a sunrise.
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Yawn..streeeeeeeeetch,nyup, nyup, scatch, scratch....
This is the same thing that "we" were all talking about prior to the Amigos being shut down, except then it was a discussion aimed squarely at the
BBB'rs hijacking of the entire website (stir hornets nest now)! Face it, people move on and get interested in different things. Sometimes they need to
justify it by saying "it's not like it used to be", or some such nonsense. Then they come back. Look, we're heading into a recession, a leadership
change in the US, and the possibility of a modest reversal in the movement of itinerant labor, as well as growing pains in the current Mexican
administration and the anarchy in the drug business. This will all have an effect on travel in Baja. So if you're going to leave, give it 6 months or
so, and you'll see that most of the riff raff on this board will have moved on.
Besides, I would never want to be part of a club that would accept me as a member!
Whoa there, Cowboy - pull back on those reins!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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I'm sure that some/most of you consider me to be a major offender. I am, if what you want is a forum that dwells on a Baja, the tranquil land of
past memory. Unfortunatly, Baja has changed. It offers much more than great fishing, quiet camping, cultural interchange and fish tacos. Crime,
corruption and death have been added to the landscape. Politics have become more cross-cultural and middle class wealth is creeping up to standards
with which we are familiar.
These new characteristics demand discussion and they are hot topics. They can't be ignored.
Of course there are times when scat slinging carries the tone. I'm guilty of that as well but, don't have to tell you how much I sometimes get a
kick out of it.
This board needs all of it. It needs to be well-rounded, representing everything Baja. Not just the campfire songs.
Tune it out if if doesn't fit your interests. Everybody should know how to do that. Do you step into a crowded bus and try to listen to every
conversation? No, you don't. You tune them out.
Anyway, nothing stays the same. We don't either. We have to make adjustments.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65300
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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It wasn't anything to do with M's BBBB events, I spoke with Earle and Eric in person more than once... They enjoyed the events that came about from
Amigos meeting and actually becomming real-life amigos! Eric and Trish told me it was the dreamed of result of their efforts.
Here is a photo at BBBB-1 and you can see Earle and Eric, along with Paulina and Mike Humfreville... Earle is even a Nomad... There was other reasons
for retiring the Amigos de Baja board.
You have free choice to read posts or not, to contribute or not, to meet in person or not... Because there were posts about BBBB or Viva Baja or
whatever, that didn't prevent you from posting what you want or reading something else... there are no limits to how many threads are added here or on
Amigos, back then.
If you don't like something, then don't read it... I don't understand the need to announce that you don't like something so you're leaving, unless it
is to affect a change... That's why I asked Jesse what is it he wants.
[Edited on 2-19-2008 by David K]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Jesse......
C'mon back. You're supposed to be tougher than those steaks you sell. Nobody here can yell at me like you can and this place will be at a loss if
you quit.
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