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wilderone
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It's one of the photos when you open the David Tramp site. "click to see surf camp" - then there are photos of Los Alejandros Surf camp - and note
the "surf" - flat bay. And very shallow - as I experienced when camped there a couple years ago.
"BUT, this operation is run by the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT. It was clear from early on that sand filling up this man made harbor was going to be an issue.
If you look at the prevailing wind and seas, and see how the breakwaters have been built and located, it's pretty clear what will happen. Several
times I have been there, the entire marina was filled with sand, with at most 1-5" water in a few spots. Has this stopped them? Has this caused
rethinking of the project? Why would anyone think this would change now?"
You speak with forked tongue. Indeed - why would anyone think the project would be successful when it so far, has not. I would be willing to bet
that some government project supervisor's family lives there and is driving a new truck. And as far as you're concerned, the marina IS finished - so
amigo, go boat on down there. Bring a tent. And water.
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Hook
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Really, my comments about the lift operating over sand was just to say "what a stupid photo to place on a website promoting the marina". I have no
doubt that ongoing dredging can solve the problem.
But what a photo to use........
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
You speak with forked tongue. |
I really don't get your hostility on this. I realize you're against the project. In many ways I am too. But just because my opinion of what has
happened is different from yours makes me a liar????? This is religion for you, but nor for me.
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Tiomiguel
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Interesting project, I am a sailor on the Great Lakes, and have been around a bit on a boat. A little strange to have such a nice lift there to lift
huge boats. Why they would want it there is beyond me. Few would ever risk big sailboats on the main highway in Baja as aby boat over 30 normally
has a beam of 11 feet plus. Imagine that on the Baja highway with no shoulders. So Cal boaters go one way down Baja due to prevailing winds being so
heavy, so most head down on their way somewhere, not too many like to go there and back and certainly would not go for periods less than a week. Once
they get there, there is nothing there attracting boaters, no islands, no cruising grounds, no food or drink.
The US army Corp of Engineers built similar harbours of refuge on the great lakes, Lake Huron etc. No tides, so pretty easy, except they too did not
figure for the water levels going down. So now many of these beautiful expensive harbours are only deep enough for outboard motor boats no more than
about 25 feet long.
We were recently in the Bahamas, Georgetown where Four Seasons Hotel and Marina is. We spent one night there on our friends sailboat while visiting
down there. It to was pretty funny, huge yachts, 60 to 195 feet including last year, Tiger Woods yacht. Guess what, the surge when teh wind blows
from the East makes it impossible to get into or out of and makes the harbour very uncomfortable. So far they have spent millions on it and its
packed when the wind is from the right direction guaranteed for a few days. Empty the rest of the time. This expensive place does not even have a
travel lift as they would have no use for it. http://www.emeraldbayresort.com/marina.html
You know what this means, nobody seems to be able to get the harbour of refuge type of marina right so Mexico is not alone in this.
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Gadget
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Its a great story. 
A worthless marina 
And one of the longest point waves in the west cut down to 1/3 if that 
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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Gypsy Jan
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Whaaa - There Are Bears in Baja Sur?
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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DianaT
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I love cameras--
A couple of recent pictures of the town---look a lot different than the ones on their site. 
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a really nice spot, but pictures don't always tell the whole story.
I did, however, choke on those prices considering where we are.
Diane
[Edited on 3-30-2008 by jdtrotter]
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David K
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Santa Rosalillita Thing/ July, 2007
From the road dropping down to the harbor...
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David K
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and up closer...
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David K
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Driving south from the town of Santa Rosalillita on the coastal road to Punta Rosarito (The Wall), we passed the town bird sanctuary!
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wilderone
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Roberto: not a liar - but duplicitous. First you say it will be built, it will be used, but you base that on a perceived basis of fact that since
the Mexican government is behind the project, it will be successful - in spite of several important facts that you points out which will obviously
outweigh any "Mexican government" oversight for success.
And before you cast any further stones at my "religion," I am not against a little marina at Sta Rosalillita at all. A little hotel, a couple little
fish taco shops; a little water purification store, a gravel road to the beach, a trinket shop, a well run town dump, some panga rentals, a launch
ramp -- but it's been - what - 6 years now? Still an idiotic project, with little progress. The Mexican Government consistently tries to make the
tail wag the dog.
Not to mention that the currents, swells, wind, hurricane season, insurance coverage during hurricane season for boaters, the Baja Bash northern
route, limiting boaters; and if you want more reasons why it will fail, I can provide at least 25 more.
But as I also pointed out, since you don’t need a hoist, or even a dock (use a couple anchors inside the “marina” – go ahead – it’s all yours – beat
the rush.
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Roberto: not a liar - but duplicitous. First you say it will be built, it will be used, but you base that on a perceived basis of fact that since
the Mexican government is behind the project, it will be successful - in spite of several important facts that you points out which will obviously
outweigh any "Mexican government" oversight for success.
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You are completely misunderstanding what I am saying, I will try to explain it, but first let me ask the obvious question - why would I want to be
duplicitous (which means deceptive)??? Do you think I'm a paid agent of FONATUR? That I have some interest to mislead people into believing things
about this place?
I am saying that IMO the project is poorly designed and conceived, but given that it's run by the Mexican Government, that will not be a factor in
whether it will move forward.
Success? What is success in this, and other similar projects in Mexico?
I am also saying that if it is completed (and I think it will, see above) it will be used. I, for one, will use it, as I know many other SoCal fishin'
fools will also, as it is reachable by smaller boats and opens up a beautiful area. Whether that equates to success or not I don't know, but I'm
guessing that it will never see the traffic originally planned for it. 
That's the way I see it, and that's why I said what I said. Now where is the deception here?
[Edited on 3-31-2008 by Roberto]
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Mexitron
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In one of DK's photos it looks like dunes are forming against the breakwater--looks like they may have to deal with those coming over the top too...
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Gadget
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
In one of DK's photos it looks like dunes are forming against the breakwater--looks like they may have to deal with those coming over the top too...
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It is indeed amazing. In that photo the sand at the land end of the jetty used to be water. That is where, on just the right swell, you could end
your ride from all the way up the point, nearly 3/4 of a mile from take off. Now there is nearly 1/2 a mile of sand that has piled up ruining the
wave forever.
I believe it will over top the jetty also. Punta Santa Rosalallita has one of the most dynamic long shore currents and sand movement systems of
almost any place I have ever seen. I baffles me that educated minds could have considered this location a viable marina site. 
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gadget
I baffles me that educated minds could have considered this location a viable marina site. |
I remember reading in the original Escalera documents that one of the reasons for Santa Rosalillita being selected was that it protected from southern
swells (i.e. hurricanes) bu the Vizcaino peninsula and Isla Cedros. 
Still a lot of fetch from the horn to the harbor, but I'm not a Mexican marina planner, obviously.
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David K
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The former salt loading harbor area at Laguna Guerrero Negro would have made an excellent location for a small boat harbor, I would think? But, that
would have added many more miles of 'land ferry' travel to bring yachts across to L.A. Bay than Santa Rosalillita... defeating the use of the
narrowest part of central Baja for that scheme.
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Crusoe
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Having visted the area maybe 15 to 20 times from 1975 to 1990 in search of waves to surf kayack and camp on the remote beaches both north and south of
the village we came to some hard decisions having never bieng able to figure out the wind patterns.Going north to Punta Rocasa it seemed to hardly
ever blow as strong.There is a huge seal colony just north of Punta Adeilaida and not as consistantly windy. We thought that the nw currents were
stronger off that point and hence more feed for the seals. A nice long surf break that was fun when it was not blowing like stink and the tides were
right to go out. The months of march and april were almost always much stronger wind events and more often. Hence it is now a very popular spot for
windsurfers. Was last there 3 yers ago and was a rumor of Fonutur was to build a huge upscale RV park fisherman could tow there boats there to launch
and camp in there rv's. A nice spot when its calm. ++C++
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Wiles
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David,
The mouth of Guerrero Negro Lagoon would not be ideal either. Sand bars, extreme tidal current, and very narrow entrance makes for a hazardous
crossing for small vessels. Keeping the mouth of the lagoon open for the salt barges and crew/supply boats was always a big challenge for the salt
company (according to Francisco Munoz). Years ago (mid to late 70's) there were hundreds of whales wintering in the lagoon. When the salt co. quit
using the lagoon, the sand bars filled in and the in seasonal whale count there went from the hundreds at peak to just a handfull.
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Wiles
David,
The mouth of Guerrero Negro Lagoon would not be ideal either. Sand bars, extreme tidal current, and very narrow entrance makes for a hazardous
crossing for small vessels. Keeping the mouth of the lagoon open for the salt barges and crew/supply boats was always a big challenge for the salt
company (according to Francisco Munoz). Years ago (mid to late 70's) there were hundreds of whales wintering in the lagoon. When the salt co. quit
using the lagoon, the sand bars filled in and the in seasonal whale count there went from the hundreds at peak to just a handfull.
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And, to top it off, it's a protected area, which conflicts with a Marina.
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Gadget
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by Wiles
David,
The mouth of Guerrero Negro Lagoon would not be ideal either. Sand bars, extreme tidal current, and very narrow entrance makes for a hazardous
crossing for small vessels. Keeping the mouth of the lagoon open for the salt barges and crew/supply boats was always a big challenge for the salt
company (according to Francisco Munoz). Years ago (mid to late 70's) there were hundreds of whales wintering in the lagoon. When the salt co. quit
using the lagoon, the sand bars filled in and the in seasonal whale count there went from the hundreds at peak to just a handfull.
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And, to top it off, it's a protected area, which conflicts with a Marina. |
Hmmm, a bunch of salt and mud flats protected, and the beautiful estuary and river mouth at San Jose just got dozed under for a......Marina
Me thinks there's something screwy here.
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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