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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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People who dislike Mexico and Mexican Culture
Why do people who only find the negative in Mexico and do not like the Mexican Culture travel, or even worse, live full or part time in Mexico??
The culture is different, not necessarily better or worse, just different.
We will continue to stick with, it is what it is. Oh, it is also different here in Bahia Asuncion than what we have found in many places on the
mainland, so is one better than the other? No, just different.
If one doesn't like the law, or the building standards, etc., then why be here? It is a choice.
Do we ever get frustrated and wish things were a little more like to what we are accustomed? Yes, but we get past it.
When we lived in Honduras there were too many things to which we did not want to adjust to long term, so we left, and we found Guatemala quite
intolerable in many ways, so we left.
So why if people find Mexico and its culture "wrong" ---why don't they stay in the United States or Canada?
Oh, Mexico does have some serious problems, but they are not alone.
JMHO
Diane
[Edited on 7-16-2008 by jdtrotter]
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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It's one of those "I'm better than you things".  Some folks feel more comfortable
when they're looking down their nose at someone.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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I too really enjoy your posts and envy your life in the pueblo.
It does seem that you are missing the point here of the postings about what is happening today versus lets say 20 years ago. To discuss what is going
on is not negative. To discuss translations, corrections, misinterpretations isn't negative?
On the other hand to discourage and disparage discussion is negative. And to suggest that those who talk about the interconnected nature of passivity
to deterioration of the place we love, is negative vastly misses the point Diane.
I believe that you and everyone here throughout Baja especially those in Pueblos are capable of discussing these issues openly with their Mexican
neighbors and listen carefully to what they say. They too understand the issues and together we can organize to improve upon our standard of living,
achieve greater cooperation and work together to ensure that we support each other toward making our communities safe and sound, lawfully and
financially.
Talking about lack of enforcement doesn't mean we don't like it here. It means we do like it and we want to enforce existing standards. A civil
society is a functioning one.
Now, we have mentioned changes in the Law in Mexico and the challenge this brings over the next 20 years ahead. This may or may not have been an
agreement between Mexico and the USA and Canada to align our legal systems, doesn't matter its the law and we must abide.
So, please open your heart to accept not only your pueblo and your neighbors but your counterparts and compatriots too to who are working to bring
about understanding and critical analysis while pursuing the truth.
Finding the truth where you didn't expect it is often nearly always an upsetting experience but get over it and accept that the truth is not always
pretty.
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
When we lived in Honduras there were too many things to which we did not want to adjust to long term, so we left, and we found Guatemala quite
intolerable in many ways, so we left. |
Why are people always coming on here and saying bad things about Honduras and Guatemala?
[OK Diane, before you respond, cool your jets. That was just some pointed sarcasm to point out the irony in your post.]
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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"The truth"....
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Please lecture us some more of the truth about Baja.
Its especially interesting coming from some that live in Baja, and apparently can't afford to walk away and come back home. What a pity to be so
cynical and unhappy in a place you used to love and now have grown to hate.
Maybe if you keep repeating the same negative mantra we too will begin to hate Baja also. (wasn't that Goebells?)
Before you chime in Ful a no, I really do appreciate your "crime beat" reports, but believe it or not most of us are aware of current situation in
Baja.
(As a matter of fact, recently, the bad news in the US eclipses that of Baja.)
I'm thinking today that:
running the gauntlet of Rosarito
risking mordida from policemen
hunting for Diesel in Baja Norte
is a respite from:
is my bank going down?
will Israel bomb Iran?
will gas be $8 gal when I retire?
what will my house be worth next year?
Ken
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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Please lecture us some more of the truth about Baja.
Its especially interesting coming from some that live in Baja, and apparently can't afford to walk away and come back home. What a pity to be so
cynical and unhappy in a place you used to love and now have grown to hate.
Maybe if you keep repeating the same negative mantra we too will begin to hate Baja also. (wasn't that Goebells?)
Before you chime in Ful a no, I really do appreciate your "crime beat" reports, but believe it or not most of us are aware of current situation in
Baja.
(As a matter of fact, recently, the bad news in the US eclipses that of Baja.)
I'm thinking today that:
running the gauntlet of Rosarito
risking mordida from policemen
hunting for Diesel in Baja Norte
is a respite from:
is my bank going down?
will Israel bomb Iran?
will gas be $8 gal when I retire?
what will my house be worth next year?
Ken |
There are those of us who can afford to leave but choose to stay in spite of how bad things have gotten. We are the ones that remember how the
corruption was being cleaned up only to get worse as the war with the cartels has become the main focus of the Government. I came to Mexico because it
was cleaning up its act after the peso devaluation in the 1990s. They were dealing with the land reforms and the fido system was put in place to
protect our investment interests. All of these things are in danger of taking many steps back and reporting on what you call negative news reports is
a positive thing in my book. No one is demanding change from Mexico. We want them to continue what they started and what brought us here in the first
place.
CLEAN UP THE CORRUPTION
FIRE THE DIRTY COPS
GET RID OF THE BITE
MAKE IT SAFE FOR TOURISTS
BRING THE INFRASTRUCTURE UP TO REASONABLE STANDARDS
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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| Quote: |
There are those of us who can afford to leave but choose to stay in spite of how bad things have gotten. We are the ones that remember how the
corruption was being cleaned up only to get worse as the war with the cartels has become the main focus of the Government. I came to Mexico because it
was cleaning up its act after the peso devaluation in the 1990s. They were dealing with the land reforms and the fido system was put in place to
protect our investment interests. All of these things are in danger of taking many steps back and reporting on what you call negative news reports is
a positive thing in my book. No one is demanding change from Mexico. We want them to continue what they started and what brought us here in the first
place.
CLEAN UP THE CORRUPTION
FIRE THE DIRTY COPS
GET RID OF THE BITE
MAKE IT SAFE FOR TOURISTS
BRING THE INFRASTRUCTURE UP TO REASONABLE STANDARDS |
palmeto99,
Good answer. Props to you for staying in the place you love, and for having the desire for it to improve. Don't get me wrong about my aversion to
some beating the negative stories into the ground.
There is a difference between posting some useful news that may be negative and posting nothing but negative news and lecturing. Most here, I firmly
believe, have their collective eyes wide open with regards to the reality of Baja/Mexico. To be lectured by a few is getting very old.
I share your love of Punta Chivato, by the way! Welcome to Baja Nomad!
Ken
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
I too really enjoy your posts and envy your life in the pueblo.
It does seem that you are missing the point here of the postings about what is happening today versus lets say 20 years ago. To discuss what is going
on is not negative. To discuss translations, corrections, misinterpretations isn't negative?
On the other hand to discourage and disparage discussion is negative. And to suggest that those who talk about the interconnected nature of passivity
to deterioration of the place we love, is negative vastly misses the point Diane.
I believe that you and everyone here throughout Baja especially those in Pueblos are capable of discussing these issues openly with their Mexican
neighbors and listen carefully to what they say. They too understand the issues and together we can organize to improve upon our standard of living,
achieve greater cooperation and work together to ensure that we support each other toward making our communities safe and sound, lawfully and
financially.
Talking about lack of enforcement doesn't mean we don't like it here. It means we do like it and we want to enforce existing standards. A civil
society is a functioning one.
Now, we have mentioned changes in the Law in Mexico and the challenge this brings over the next 20 years ahead. This may or may not have been an
agreement between Mexico and the USA and Canada to align our legal systems, doesn't matter its the law and we must abide.
So, please open your heart to accept not only your pueblo and your neighbors but your counterparts and compatriots too to who are working to bring
about understanding and critical analysis while pursuing the truth.
Finding the truth where you didn't expect it is often nearly always an upsetting experience but get over it and accept that the truth is not always
pretty. |
I would encourage you to actually slow down and read the post above....
Sage words....
And who said anything about not loving La Baja ....
Criticism is Careing .....
What's wrong with trying to make the world a fairer place for everyone ?
If there was no growth we would still be cave men
CaboRon
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Hey gnukid...I heard back from Presidente Calderon...He said they are working on the situation to make Mexico a safer place for all. I believe him but
we must be patient as it will take time.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
Hey gnukid...I heard back from Presidente Calderon...He said they are working on the situation to make Mexico a safer place for all. I believe him but
we must be patient as it will take time. |
A loooooooooooooong, looooooooooooooooong time
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
A loooooooooooooong, looooooooooooooooong time |
Agreed Brother...
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Gnukid ...Hmmmm 20 years ago? I go back to Mexican politics 40 years ago. My uncle lost his silver mine to nationalization. So could we all lose
it all at any time and be booted out of the country. We are guests and we better not forget it.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
I too really enjoy your posts and envy your life in the pueblo.
It does seem that you are missing the point here of the postings about what is happening today versus lets say 20 years ago. To discuss what is going
on is not negative. To discuss translations, corrections, misinterpretations isn't negative?
On the other hand to discourage and disparage discussion is negative. And to suggest that those who talk about the interconnected nature of passivity
to deterioration of the place we love, is negative vastly misses the point Diane.
I believe that you and everyone here throughout Baja especially those in Pueblos are capable of discussing these issues openly with their Mexican
neighbors and listen carefully to what they say. They too understand the issues and together we can organize to improve upon our standard of living,
achieve greater cooperation and work together to ensure that we support each other toward making our communities safe and sound, lawfully and
financially.
Talking about lack of enforcement doesn't mean we don't like it here. It means we do like it and we want to enforce existing standards. A civil
society is a functioning one.
Now, we have mentioned changes in the Law in Mexico and the challenge this brings over the next 20 years ahead. This may or may not have been an
agreement between Mexico and the USA and Canada to align our legal systems, doesn't matter its the law and we must abide.
So, please open your heart to accept not only your pueblo and your neighbors but your counterparts and compatriots too to who are working to bring
about understanding and critical analysis while pursuing the truth.
Finding the truth where you didn't expect it is often nearly always an upsetting experience but get over it and accept that the truth is not always
pretty. |
 |
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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At night when we sit around and watch TV on occasion, my mexican friends, University scientists and scholars, they watch CSI, Animal Planet's Humane
Society Investigators, all the detective shows, they believe that as citizens of the USA we understand criminal prosecution.
The believe that each and every Norte Americano knows the methodology for fingerprinting, DNA analysis, fabric analysis, video and photo evidence
etc... along with a lot of other crap, and they believe that we can show them how to gather evidence to prosecute criminal activity.
The truth is the shows are fantastic. But we do know know about these methods somewhat and we can use them theatrically to demonstrate the power of
evidence without even reaching the point of prosecution, we can help out to gather witnesses and evidence of criminal activity and persist to put
desnuncias on criminals.
Whether or not the perception is true, that Norte Americanos have more resources to pursue crime or not, the fact that a perception of sophistication
can be used to the advantage.
Just as those shows are theatrical so is the process of deterring crimes and of criminal prosecution. And hey, criminal evidence doesn't hurt.
One thing I do is when I see graffiti artists or a group of no goods hanging around, I go and greet them nicely and ask their names and look each one
in the eye "te conosco, eres un primo aqui?" If I can, I will ask if we can take a picture, they look like a famous person... more and more we have
them on film and by name and background more and more by doing so they know that this is not a good place to do their tagging and petty theft.
Whenever possible advertise that those deterrent methods are available, tell funny stories about a guy who was caught in the act, gather what you can
and maintain witnesses, bring people with you to every interaction and contractual dealings (you need two witnesses) and pursue criminals and in doing
so you will prevent crime too.
In our neighborhood, we are using theatrics to send messages, think about how this relates to you and be creative. It's no so different from criminals
intimidation techniques, "video grabando 24 horas" I also tell stories of a person who was electrocuted entering houses, and I tell about a person who
was found inside a vacation home in a chinese trap left there for months to starve to convince people that crimes are punished even when you don't see
it or hear it. From rooftops we can shoot the whole neighborhood, we also use photos and videos and pass them around via blue tooth on cell phones to
show that photos and videos can capture people and easily be spread around. It acts as a deterrent to criminals and rogue cops too.
After one polite confrontation of a rogue cop or criminal with photo evidence their story is BS and they are caught, you can't imagine how fast
criminals and bad cops return stolen property and run in the opposite direction and good cops greet us smiling.
Try it, could be room for a CSI Baja California next season!
[Edited on 7-19-2008 by gnukid]
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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What a great idea 
I can just see it now
"C S I : LA BAJA " or " CABO VICE"
CaboRon 
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
I'm thinking today that:
running the gauntlet of Rosarito
risking mordida from policemen
hunting for Diesel in Baja Norte
is a respite from:
is my bank going down?
will Israel bomb Iran?
will gas be $8 gal when I retire?
what will my house be worth next year?
Ken |
Hmm. I haven't heard of any recent rosarito cuota horror stories. The locals seem pleased with the new police although neighborhood petty crime is
up (stolen cars and catalytic converters in my area). I still haven't found a "tourist police" (army guys in police uniform) that speaks english.
They have the main street (Benito Juarez) in Rosarito Beach torn up southbound again except for one lane- it looks like they are working on the gas
lines. They cry for tourist business and then close the lanes in peak summer. I hate playing chicken with mexican drivers who have no clue, no
insurance, no license and no thought of alternating lanes... and that's just my family. lol
Yes, your bank is going down if you're still banking in the bricks-and-mortar stone age.
Yes, Israel will bomb Iran. I've been there a dozen times, love the people- never understood their actions. It's no wonder the Mayan calendar ends
in 2012- everything is right at the tipping point.
As last week shows- when demand drops, so does the price. Buy a hybrid and get off the gird- then you can plan your retirement dollars without the
wild card of utilties. Of course that's trumped buy the healthcare wildcard.
If in the USA, your house value is going to drop further to the price that banks are dumping similar REO properties. The foreclosure rate is
accelerating so more banks will dump properties until they all get bought up and the market can work it's way back up. I don't feel a sorry for
people who are upside down in their homes, I do feel bad for their abandoned pets though. Like a lot of gringo ex-pats- we built our house with no
intent to sell in this lifetime. House values are way down here too- but who cares unless you're a speculator or bought into the realtor hype of a
few years ago (Trump Baja has yet to even break ground and sold out two yearas ago).
[Edited on 7-19-2008 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Gnukid, Cabo Ron, let us know, as you go village by village, changing the way things are. Give us a little advance notice of when to expect you in
Miraflores, Santiago, Los Barriles, all up and down the peninsula doing the Lord's work, showing the gringos and Mexicans how to be better, live
better, get along, progress, change. When I hear you are within spittin distance of this little village I will close the gate. The whole town will be
the enclave that's tossed about a lot on this forum. Believe me fellas, we want to change our own way, on our own schedule, stumbling, bumbling but
moving forward -- not as a cohesive mass but each in his own way. Pulleeees allow us the opportunity to do it without your misplaced concerns or
charity that comes from your heart as a rabid caregiver or as egoistic gurus gone mad in a place you see as evil and inchoate.
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Gypsy Jan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4275
Registered: 1-27-2004
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Mood: Depends on which way the wind is blowing
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Osprey, I Second You
In an effort to not be repetitious, kindly see my remarks on the "...Tell the Truth" below.
Regards, GJ
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gnukid, Cabo Ron, let us know, as you go village by village, changing the way things are. Give us a little advance notice of when to expect you in
Miraflores, Santiago, Los Barriles, all up and down the peninsula doing the Lord's work, showing the gringos and Mexicans how to be better, live
better, get along, progress, change. When I hear you are within spittin distance of this little village I will close the gate. The whole town will be
the enclave that's tossed about a lot on this forum. Believe me fellas, we want to change our own way, on our own schedule, stumbling, bumbling but
moving forward -- not as a cohesive mass but each in his own way. Pulleeees allow us the opportunity to do it without your misplaced concerns or
charity that comes from your heart as a rabid caregiver or as egoistic gurus gone mad in a place you see as evil and inchoate.
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Not at all .... the only thing about Mexico which I see as evil are the cartels and the Catholic Church ...
And my only concern as to quality of work is only as it applies to my home and my projects ....
Just don't want to get electricuted in the shower ....
Hey, if Mexico wants to continue to drive away business through such things as the taxi cartel in CSL , that's fine with me.
And I will touch on something else .... I am an American, and we have never settled for second best in anything .... whether it be the quality
of the goods we consume or the quality of workmanship that makes this a better and more comfortable world to live in .....
Right now , it pleases me to live in the beautiful Pueblo Magico of Todos Santos ..... if I reach a point where it no longer pleases me I
will move on .....
I have lived in many beautiful places in my life and if it goes to hell or becomes too expensive, well there is always another place to move to
..... it's part of the reason I never buy land .... it holds you down ....
Next year I may move closer to CSL to begin consulting on a new development, I go with the flow ..... and I believe I am a citizen of the
world ..... 
CaboRon
[Edited on 7-20-2008 by CaboRon]
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