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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
In an effort to not be repetitious, kindly see my remarks on the "...Tell the Truth" below.
Regards, GJ |
Okay
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gnukid, Cabo Ron, let us know, as you go village by village, changing the way things are. Give us a little advance notice of when to expect you in
Miraflores, Santiago, Los Barriles, all up and down the peninsula doing the Lord's work, showing the gringos and Mexicans how to be better, live
better, get along, progress, change. When I hear you are within spittin distance of this little village I will close the gate. The whole town will be
the enclave that's tossed about a lot on this forum. Believe me fellas, we want to change our own way, on our own schedule, stumbling, bumbling but
moving forward -- not as a cohesive mass but each in his own way. Pulleeees allow us the opportunity to do it without your misplaced concerns or
charity that comes from your heart as a rabid caregiver or as egoistic gurus gone mad in a place you see as evil and inchoate.
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I sure wish Osprey would start a school for those of us who are expressively challenged. I think this hits the nail on the head exactly in a
descriptive and accurate portrait of the problem. I saw the same thing happen with a lot of the Peace Corp volunteers who had the same type of
misguided and misdirected caring. As my dad used to say, "Don't show me how much you know until you show me how much you care."
God forbid that Gnukid show up in my wonderful little village with his crusader cape and laser light sword, and thank heavens we don't have a
newspaper for fulano to quote every day in the forum to bring about the necessary social change and development.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gnukid, Cabo Ron, let us know, as you go village by village, changing the way things are. Give us a little advance notice of when to expect you in
Miraflores, Santiago, Los Barriles, all up and down the peninsula doing the Lord's work, showing the gringos and Mexicans how to be better, live
better, get along, progress, change. When I hear you are within spittin distance of this little village I will close the gate. The whole town will be
the enclave that's tossed about a lot on this forum. Believe me fellas, we want to change our own way, on our own schedule, stumbling, bumbling but
moving forward -- not as a cohesive mass but each in his own way. Pulleeees allow us the opportunity to do it without your misplaced concerns or
charity that comes from your heart as a rabid caregiver or as egoistic gurus gone mad in a place you see as evil and inchoate.
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I sure wish Osprey would start a school for those of us who are expressively challenged. I think this hits the nail on the head exactly in a
descriptive and accurate portrait of the problem. I saw the same thing happen with a lot of the Peace Corp volunteers who had the same type of
misguided and misdirected caring. As my dad used to say, "Don't show me how much you know until you show me how much you care."
God forbid that Gnukid show up in my wonderful little village with his crusader cape and laser light sword, and thank heavens we don't have a
newspaper for fulano to quote every day in the forum to bring about the necessary social change and development. |
It's what human beings do ....
and have always done ...
or we would still be living in caves ....
Humans, like it or not, impact the world around them ....
it is human nature to want to explore,
To build,
And to improve the world around us.
And it will always be so 
I have no more control over this process than you do....
If you enjoy lliving at the edge,
and it is a great way to live ...
Well, you need to keep moving ,
because the edge keeps moving ....
CaboRon
***NOTE: There is strong interest in a bullet train from Las Vegas to Cabo San Lucas ..... They are thinking of nameing it the "Marlin Express" and
is part of the master plan for CSL. Harrah's will be opening the first casino/resort 
[Edited on 7-20-2008 by CaboRon]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gnukid, Cabo Ron, let us know, as you go village by village, changing the way things are. Give us a little advance notice of when to expect you in
Miraflores, Santiago, Los Barriles, all up and down the peninsula doing the Lord's work, showing the gringos and Mexicans how to be better, live
better, get along, progress, change. When I hear you are within spittin distance of this little village I will close the gate. The whole town will be
the enclave that's tossed about a lot on this forum. Believe me fellas, we want to change our own way, on our own schedule, stumbling, bumbling but
moving forward -- not as a cohesive mass but each in his own way. Pulleeees allow us the opportunity to do it without your misplaced concerns or
charity that comes from your heart as a rabid caregiver or as egoistic gurus gone mad in a place you see as evil and inchoate.
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If you live in the region of Los Barriles, Santiago and Mireflores than you know that it is as serene as is it because of the cohesive actions of the
community including obviuosly Chacha, Roberto, Chucky, Ronnie, Martine, Zulema, Lil' Martine etc... and the Police in the region while our friends,
are scared to mess with people in any way that is not 100% correct. Never has a minsterial police in that region done something stupid like they do 30
kilometers to the north and south and for that we are all better.
Furthermore, besides increased efforts from within the communities, there are private patrols and now even more private patrols that go up and down
the streets as a deterrent. These patrols are paid for by gringos.
Now, if you want to opt out and close your doors to this and not contrbute that is your choice. But believe when we talk about the region as a whole
and those gringos who do not contribute to the minestrial police nor private patrols and participate in the cohesive efforts believe it is duly noted.
We believe as whole the biggest threat to the region are gringos who shut their doors.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Most of the gringos in my little village willing give support when they are asked. That's the big difference here. We don't have all-powerful
commerciantes here so the whole town faces problems like those together. They have often asked for our input and no one, I mean no one has ever said
no. There's a big, big difference between supporters and meddlers pal. Get down off your box.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Most of the gringos in my little village willing give support when they are asked. That's the big difference here. We don't have all-powerful
commerciantes here so the whole town faces problems like those together. They have often asked for our input and no one, I mean no one has ever said
no. There's a big, big difference between supporters and meddlers pal. Get down off your box. |
Hey Pal, Aren't you the one on the soap box? Do you actually disagree with anything I have said or are you just trying to start a fight? C'mon you are
being silly.
Now, you should know by now I do not step up on a soap box, I go right to el monumento de la bandera, ahem, "Por que, para nosotros, las familias, los
pangeros, maestros, rancheros, y tam bien ninos, padres, madres y abuelitos y abuelitas, no perdiste tios y tias, y los extranos, touristicos, egual
gringos; estamos una communidad! Estamos juntos, y quando esta problemos aqui estan nosotros problemos, quando somos bien todos son bien! Una mejore
socidad, mejore gente, juntos para todos! Ya no mas estamos separados!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Lets talk about it after the fight.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Gnukid, I think you must know how generous U.S. people are. Worldwide we hold a reputation for giving. You must know about all the fine people on this
board and thousands of others who bring charity to Baja California's people -- from bicycles to shoes, to school supplies for the kids. Firetrucks and
toys and money, etc. etc. Look at the Mac ladies in Cabo, Cathie Smith with Kidsmart, the lady in Mulege who has put hundreds of kids through high
school. If I asked board members to memorialize all the things they know about done solely in the name of giving the board would be swamped for days.
A list of just the things done in my village that I know about over the last 13 years would be staggering. All I'm asking is for you to allow all
those good people and many more to come to do what they feel comfortable with, without guilt or pride, hurry or worry, without your urging, advice or
direction. Character is doing the right thing when no body's looking. These folks have character to spare and your admonishments somehow bring that
into question -- you have a knack for restating the obvious.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Well put Osprey. It is, on a personal level, very personal imo. What and why we give of ourselves to the benefit of others is your own business. Kudos
for your desire to help folks. Just don't put strings, conditions or expectations while doing so. The rest will come natural.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6364
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
Member Is Offline
Mood: TEQUILA!
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WOW!
AND I THOUGHT THAT THIS GROUP WAS ABOUT TRAVELING IN BAJA, ROAD REPORTS, SHARING SECRET BEACH HIDEAWAYS, FISHING REPORTS, WEATHER REPORTS AND
ACCOMODATIONS REPORTS
Where doest it say anything about soap boxes?
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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Its about free speech... There are many specific places here to wax on about the items you want to discuss...
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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I personally appreciate this sort of exchange. If one soft focuses there is a point to be made by most and an important issues being explored here. If
one can read beneath the vitriol there is useful perspective here and sometimes the dialogue illuminates that. I have learned from this sort of
exchange.
I appreciate Gnukids youthful enthusiasm and desire for progress and change as well as Osprey's seasoned perspective. Most of us on this board have a
love of Mexico, I sure do, and at the same time I experience powerful ambivilance at times about the differences and how they impact me. I believe we
are lucky to have a forum to discuss these issues accross generations and cultures. I do not appreciate however the flaming and ad hominum arguments
that add nothing to the dialogue.
Now more specifically to jd's post.
I am an American, a citizen of the USofA. I have powerful feelings of both pride and shame about my country. I am old enough to have seen many changes
and some not to the better. As an American, and in many ways a typical one I think, I have hope for a better future. I have a lifelong sense of
enthusiasm and regard for science and innovation. This is pretty typical for Americans, most American's are optimistic people. We put a man on the
moon. We have eradicated Smallpox, we have wiped out polio, we have developed antibiotics, survived a Great Depression and the list goes on. We now
have hope that we can become energy independent. Most believe that innovation will provide a path out of our dependence upon foreign energy. (It may
not) We have hope for this to improve our enviorment. There are now Condors again in the skys of California, the wolf has come back from the point of
extinction. Hope is generative, hope can provide motivation for change.
The sort of optimism and hope that I have expressed above does not detract from my shame over how we have exploited the enviorment, for decades not
taken seriously the energy crisis, at least twice invaded another sovereign nation with out provocation or legal mandate, killed thousands and
displaced millions of ordinary human beings, provided the most massive redistribution of wealth to the upper classes in the history of the world, all
in my life time. I have a profound hope that the rule of law and our institutions will one day provide remedy for at least some of these issues. Again
my typical American optimism.
I would like you to notice how I am both critical and proud of my country of origin. I believe that this is what we are seeing in these posts and the
current dialogue about them on this forum. We all have ambivilant feelings about both the US and Mexico, if you do not then you are not paying
attention. Their are cultural differences, and they account for a lot of the differences that I read about here, some are not as articulate as others
in expressing those real differences. There are also very real social, economic and political changes that are happening in Mexico that we have very
real feelings about. One can be critical and want to change our country and still love it. It is not an either love it or leave it affair. We can both
love and want to improve ourselves, our relationships and our nations.
As to the issue of giving and "doing good" it seems to me that one can give out patronization or one can give for the pure joy of being able to do so.
If one has expectations of outcomes attached to giving then the giving has strings attached and is to be rightly suspect by those who are receiving.
We all need to sort out this issue of sharing and giving. Are we really trying to make others in our image? Are we trying to exiate our guilt? Do we
need the appreciation of others to feel good about ourselves? All good questions. For me it is the act of giving in and of itself that feels good,
when I am at my best. When not at my best I am trying to manipulate others with my giving. Motivation matters.
I appreciate the sincere dialogue that I read here on BajaNomads.
Saludos!
Iflyfish
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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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Great post..
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