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Author: Subject: Doug, thanks for the cleanup
Sallysouth
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 08:39 PM


palmetto, I have no idea what you are talking about.I dispise no one here or anywhere. Sounds like you need a vacation!:yes:



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Marie-Rose
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 08:57 PM


I for one have also been disappointed recently with the content of the board but
keep checking as I have seen this trend several times over the years. I check
for news from the posters I have relied on for great stories and information and
ignore the others.
I have made some fabulous friends thru this forum and hope to meet more...
and... thanks Doug for the clean-up!!!!:biggrin:




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amir
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 09:12 PM


Very interesting... very interesting...

I didn't quit. Sometimes I lurk and I spend more "social" time on Nomad when my sweetie is away. But it is very time consuming to keep up with a bunch of cyber-friends on different threads.

What I don't understand about all the complaining is that this Nomad board has many topics with many threads. Why aren't people more selective where they click? It's like going to a big mall, having a good time, then complaining because there was an Army Recruiter, or an Adult Toy Shop, or a Christian Reading Room. Don't go where you MIGHT be offended.
And if you get offended by an inadvertent post, please MOVE ON! Don't give it any more energy...

I personally did get tired of stabbing attacks by the neo-cons. What offended ME the most were the attacks on people solely on their age, and the more advanced and feeble the poster, the nastier and meaner and really disgusting were the attacks. To me it was heart-breaking - these old-timers had a lot to offer but they were bullied off. Why should anyone have to constantly defend themselves from ad hominim (sic) attacks?

I put a lot of creative energy into my posts. It takes (me, anyway) time to articulate thoughts and ideas intelligently and then to type them and to edit them. I love the literary exercise, but my free time only comes in spurts, and I rather take my muse where we feel less threatened...

BajaNomad is a wonderful site with tons of good information for all kinds of people with a multitude of special interests in Baja. It is an encyclopedic archived source for many subjects interested by Baja lovers (and not-so-lovers) and travelers from all walks of life. I have come here sometimes to be entertained and sometimes to ask questions about Baja and have received incredibly wonderful replies and information. It's a fun place to share photos taken by unknown (to me) people who take pictures of the same things I do! Go figure! I give Nomad my full support and KUDOS!

--Amir
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danaeb
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 09:42 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by palmeto99


The board is as vibrant and as healthy as its ever been.:cool:


That would be since 7/15/2008 when you registered?




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Sharksbaja
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 09:51 PM


:lol:

(snipe snipe)

:P




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cbuzzetti
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 09:58 PM


I never posted alot and have only been around a couple of years. I am mostly a lurker.

The board has become alot less friendly this year with way too many personal attacks. IMHO

I visit less often and get less joy from my visits.

I still love Baja. And this is still a great place for information. Just not what it used to be. Too bad.

I prefered it the old way.

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vivaloha
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 10:47 PM


chipping in here with fellow mellow-cats who love the baja fun...

let's strive for some positivity and joy of the baja lifestyle...
when a person googles this site, it says "Peace, love and fish tacos"...
that's groovy stuff...let's keep it happy and cool on the board...

sure, there's bad news out there but oh well...

i'm logging in to mention, newbies or oldbies, or inbetweenbies please
let's not try to offend other members - let's do like Rodney King said,
"Let's just all get along"...The board is more fun when the members
work together, like a harmonious team or happy family-

once again, "Peace, Love and fish tacos"

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longlegsinlapaz
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 11:01 PM
thebajarunner


Quote:
Originally posted by thebajarunner
Yesterday there was a bit of a "dust-up" here over a post that I found offensive and profane.
I requested, nicely, that the author might want to clean it up a bit, which got me a load of scorn from several.
Surely that would have been the easy solution, short of that a brief discussion with Doug and the thread was brought into conformity of the rules of the board.
Lately the board has seriously slipped into realms that many of us original folk never thought we would see. Sad to say.
And, even sadder, many of our really quality posting partners have simply checked out.... do a little sleuthing and you will note the good quality folk who are missing.
Let's hope that the negatives and the sniping, and the really low quality of some posting can be eliminated.
Speaking of elimination, am I the only one that is offended by posts which have vivid color renderings of piles of feces?
Is this really something that we want cluttering up our site?
Just wondering....


You are definitely NOT ALONE in feeling that a lot of posts have been offensive & profane lately. Nor are you alone in not wanting to see all the irritating (IMHO) graphics!

You're right that a lot of the good posters have gotten off this bus!! The posting stats are irrelevant as a guide to whether posters are old-timers (reference to membership longevity, NOT members age!!), newbies, or banned people with new & multiple identities.

The bottom line is the entire flavor of the board is permeated by offensive, profane & negative posts. I can live with the bad news posts, what I have a problem with is all the name-calling, personal attacks, offensive language & negativity. A pleasant thread will be started & going along well & then some rabble-rouser just HAS to make a post to ruin it for many!

Don't tell me not to read posts that might offend me, personally, it's the language & choice of words of a few posters that offends me...NOT the original topic. Not everyone uses or appreciates foul language; some actually find it offensive. It that so hard a concept for a few to grasp?

I don't think it has anything to do with the anonymity...I think a rude, crude, disrespectful rabble-rouser is going to act the same in any setting!

So few are ruining the site for so many! Please go find a new sandbox to post your animated piles of excrement in...verbal & graphic!
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vgabndo
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[*] posted on 8-18-2008 at 11:19 PM


To respond to a question above, I remember when we used to hear a lot of good stuff from folks like Aldo and Jesse in La Paz, and Don Jorge, JZ, Jerry, Franko, Baja Rich, Cindarouh, Slowmad, and cincodemayo. It has been months since we had the pleasure of their input. Many, I judge, are lurking...silently.

I've had a lot of trouble on this site because I used to let myself be dragged into the muck slinging. I'm proud to say I haven't posted on the off-topic in well over a year! I hope a change in my behavior has been obvious.

I am also honored to have coined the phrase "Peace, Love and Fish Tacos" in my signature years ago, and was proud to have Doug ask to use it. THAT is my ideal of the way this board could go.

Perhaps many of the folks who have made a negative name for themselves here recently, other than the ones who came here from there, don't know about and could be better served at: http://www.baja.net. There is a place for every taste on the WWW.:lol:




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palmeto99
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 05:47 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by danaeb
Quote:
Originally posted by palmeto99


The board is as vibrant and as healthy as its ever been.:cool:


That would be since 7/15/2008 when you registered?



Are some of you refering to personal attacks like this or would you call it sniping.

I have lurked on this board for many years but only started posting when I saw many of the "regulars" sniping at a new member (fulano) for wanting to post real news. I did not like the ganging up I saw and entered the fray based on that.
The double standard is alive and well as the sniping from the regulars as we call those members has proven here.
There is one thing for sure though, myself and many others who disagree with with some of you are not going away nor will we stop posting the real news of Mexico as some of us require this info in our dealing with Mexico.
And for those of you who do not know. I have had a home in Baja for 18 years and lived here full time for 10 years.
Lighten up people, change happens to everything and there is nothing you can do about it but change yourself.

:coolup:

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by palmeto99]




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oxxo
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 07:22 AM


This thread is a microcosm of the things people are complaining about the Board as a whole.....flames, insults, misquotations, arrogance, gum-flapping, off-topic, etc. Very interesting!

We have met the enemy and it is US.

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by oxxo]
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ELINVESTIG8R
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 07:30 AM




[Edited on 8-19-2008 by ELINVESTI8]




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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 08:50 AM


tsgarcia69 - that flattens the argument that Bajanomads is dying! But where is your POST QUALITY INDEX?

Before someone (inevitably, complete with offensive graphics) takes that seriously, I wanted to support a point previously made - that 13 people gunned down in Creel IS important to me and those Nomads I discussed it with last night.

Copper Canyon is a place where many of us Paceños go (and love) - this news DOES affect Baja, however peripherally. No need to dwell on external matters, this is not the place - but the news itself was on-point.




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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 09:03 AM


Hi Rob,

Is there no forum for mainland Mexico or Copper Canyon to check on events there? I am sure there are people who live in Baja who may be interested in events in British Columbia, too... My concern is the ton of bad news from mainland Mexico affecting the positive roll Baja Nomad would otherwise have on Baja travel. Nomad has been diluted by so much negative news... and that can't be what most of us come here for, can it?

Perhaps you can request a non-Baja news forum from Doug? I am still waiting for a non-Baja trip reports forum! :lol:




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CaboRon
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 09:03 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
This thread is a microcosm of the things people are complaining about the Board as a whole.....flames, insults, misquotations, arrogance, gum-flapping, off-topic, etc. Very interesting!

We have met the enemy and it is US.

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by oxxo]


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:




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Lee
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 09:18 AM
Let's pick on the Off Topic Nomads.


Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
I've had a lot of trouble on this site because I used to let myself be dragged into the muck slinging. I'm proud to say I haven't posted on the off-topic in well over a year! I hope a change in my behavior has been obvious.


I am sometimes puzzled as to why the subject of ''Off Topic'' is dragged into a discussion -- as if it has been a ''bad habit'' akin to ''kicking a drug habit''.

Why would anyone here be PROUD for NOT having posted to Off Top in a year?

For those wanting spirited debate, and sling mud from time to time, Off Topic serves a purpose. Unlike the Regular Forum, it's perfectly acceptable, at Off Topic, to hijack threads, name call, have biased and opinionated POVs, and alot more.

Lots of people transition between both forums without trouble.

Don't use Off Topic as a baseline for something it is not. This forum is as viable and useful as the ''other'' Forum. For those ''afraid'' to join in at OT, the fear is in your head. We're all Nomads and love tacos. Except for those masquerading as Nomads. They eat something else.
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 10:26 AM


I got involved on this board with a posting on Cultural Differences Ain't They Interesting as a direct attempt to both encourage discussion of cultural differences and to reframe these discussions in a positive way. I had seen the flames and ad hominum arguments and personal attacks that in my view really get in the way of legitimate and useful dialogue. It has been a few years now and again the flames, personal attacks and ad hominum arguments emerge. I have concluded that this is cyclical and that it simply reflects the fact that this group is comprised of individuals, some of whom are not very articulate nor sophisticated in how they express themselves. I also believe that this mirrors the general population who are not interested in either researching a subject in depth and are interested in simple solutions to complex problems. I see this same dynamic happening in the US elections this year. Obama presents complex, nuanced answers to questions and looks like an intellectual snob beside the "straight talker" who gives simple answers to complex problems. The populace has been conditioned by TV to bypass their intellect and to respond on a visceral level: Like/Don't Like and we are stuck with the results. Same with this board.

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thebajarunner
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 11:01 AM
Whew!!! A real composite of response


Thanks to all who have privately contacted me and discussed the current state of affairs at Nomad, both in U2U and in email.
And thanks to the encouraging comments above, as well.
The responses clearly show that many of us are saddened and that some still don't get it (or don't care)
Personally, I don't get stressed about which topics get aired, bring it on.
Just keep the personal stuff and the nasty stuff to yourself.
Several have demanded their "rights"
You don't get it do you?
Only Doug has "rights" on this board,
All others have "privilege" and privilege can be revoked.
Buy a ticket, go to a ball game, get drunk and shout obscenities- you will be escorted from the stadium, possibly in handcuffs, and you won't get a refund, and you won't be welcome to come back.
Nomad is like that. You may not like it, that is how it is.
Number of posts increasing????
I would hope so, when I joined I was #357, today #7646 signed up. That is 21.4 times as many members.
I would assume that the post numbers would go up.
(Especially when some members love to respond to all posts with a quick click of the smiley faces, sure does build the post count, doesn't it?)
And, will I tell you who I know is gone?
Nope!!
If you cannot figure that out you are not a very serious Nomad.
One is so obvious it hurts, because he was a very articulate, clever and frequent contributor, at many levels. Poetic and otherwise.
Like someone up here just said, in the words of Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?"
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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 11:37 AM


I have to disagree that this flameing is cyclical, I personally attribute it to the state of our nation which everyone understands and is totally different than we have experienced before and I think this has added to the temperament of a lot of people in the US. Simple answers from a simple mind.:O:O

[Edited on 8-19-2008 by comitan]




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[*] posted on 8-19-2008 at 12:14 PM


It is very convenient to try to sabotage the issue on the basis of freedom of expression and lack of censorship, but Bajarunner did a great job of identifying the real issue. It is not important that someone chooses to post all of the news stories from Baja Norte or even that the person who has chosen to do that acts pretty much the same even though the name keeps changing, it is more a simple issue of the fact that common decency and polite discourse have eroded to name calling, intimidation, and cyber-bullying. It used to be that even though people came from different ends of the spectrum, they still seemed to be able to communicate those differences in a manner that still showed respect for the other person. If this type of discourse were to happen with any social group like an orginization or a family, it would be easy to characterize the interactions as socially and emotionally disfunctional.
In the past I was able to read topics that held interest for me and for the most part it was a postive experience and I logged off feeling a little more positive for the interaction. Lately that seems impossible as a few bad apples have taken it upon themselves to permeate almost all topics with a negativity that has been commented upon by numerous posters. It is a simple matter that when the negatives outweigh the positives then I for one will spend my time elsewhere, but I can not help but feel the loss for something that I used to find enjoyable. Perhaps that is the ultimate payoff for the negative posters and trolls and their one chance to feel empowered. It is sure a shame that a few can change things for the worse but I guess in the long run that is their choice.
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