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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Nobody likes a Pollyanna except maybe a few like-minded saps.
Let me repeat something and ask you this stupid question because you DID read it before.
Question: (w/o hitting any search engine)
How many people in the world live in places vunerable to the effects of water and why?
clue: The Earths' surface is 7/8 water.
And one more thang Mr Prophecy, don't expect me to invite you to our semi-annual flood sale or dinner float party!!!
Oh & btw , if you knew our place you would understand why it still stands and why it can be cleaned up with relative ease.
Al, maybe it's just an evil god at work and some of his minions gather here.
Cuidadoso!
[Edited on 8-29-2008 by Sharksbaja]
[Edited on 8-29-2008 by Sharksbaja] |
Shark,
If shoveling out the mud and power washing your "weatherproof" concrete house every 1 to 2 years is Baja living at its best, good luck to you. I would
head up to Wal-mart and pick up some plastic furniture and a styrofoam cooler for a fridge as well as a outdoor BBQ in place of a stove.
There are other who I am sure will take the steps required
to ensure they do not have to go through this again.
This was a minor storm and when the big one hits, It might even be a hurricane and not a tropical depression.
Not everyone in Mulege was "wiped out".
Just the die hards on the river.
The advice I am about to give you is worth what you are paying for it.
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bajamigo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1218
Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: hubimos llegado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by palmeto99
I would head up to Wal-mart and pick up some plastic furniture and a styrofoam cooler for a fridge as well as a outdoor BBQ in place of a stove.
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And what would be your sage advice for people living in, say, Florida, or tornado alley, or San Francisco and anywhere else along the San Andreas
fault?
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Sharks, don't let them give you the jim jams. A month or two of tranquility spent in your own heaven, your own particular hand-carved oasis could be
compared to a decade living where some of these bad-mouthed jerks have lived. They can't see the layout, will never know how some places defy special
high in the sky engineering -- you know the risks and take them with all the muckout work ahead of you when the river rises again. It's part of the
program, the process, the magic, good or bad. They will never see that and their souls are impoverished by the lack of your spirit of adventure, your
need to proudly live in a world where dreams are grand and fragile.
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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajamigo
| Quote: | Originally posted by palmeto99
I would head up to Wal-mart and pick up some plastic furniture and a styrofoam cooler for a fridge as well as a outdoor BBQ in place of a stove.
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And what would be your sage advice for people living in, say, Florida, or tornado alley, or San Francisco and anywhere else along the San Andreas
fault?
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Heres the point you missed.
Mulege in on a large arroyo that pretends its a river .
It always floods if there is any major rainfall.
This last storm was a tropical depression and not a full hurricane.
Given this information and the fact that there have been 3 floods in 5 years with just tropical storm conditions, would it not be prudent to plan on
this happening again as I would consider these conditions the norm now.
Have you ever been to hurricane areas on the east coast.
I live in one when I am not in Baja and people here rebuild for the new conditions. You will see homes built on concrete posts up to the new flood
levels and use the space created as temporary storage. In the event of a storm surge,this area of the home is easily repaired.
Hurricanes and earthquakes are chance happenings.
Residual river flooding is predictable with rainfall and does
not qualify as a freak happening.
[Edited on 8-29-2008 by palmeto99]
The advice I am about to give you is worth what you are paying for it.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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| Quote: | Hurricanes and earthquakes are chance happenings.
Residual river flooding is predictable with rainfall and does
not qualify as a freak happening.
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Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here.
And..Fishhawk...you're spot on.
[Edited on 8-29-2008 by vandenberg]
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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We have friends from Oregon who have gone through this now for the 3rd time. Second time was really bad, with serious roof damage. Yes house was
totally under water. This last time I think he installed pressboard cabinets. Water wasn't as high as last time, but I'm sure the cabinets will have
to go. I'm a thinking that after "this" clean up, house will be up for sale. Will see when he returns to Roseburg.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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This is getting really juicy 
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: |
This was a small tropical "nothing" storm. Someone needs to ask what is up?
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ask Al Gore.
sorry, couldn't resist. i hope all y'alls can dry out and get back to your little slice of paradise (wherever that may be).
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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
Hurricanes and earthquakes are chance happenings.
Residual river flooding is predictable with rainfall and does
not qualify as a freak happening.
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Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here.
And..Fishhawk...you're spot on.
[Edited on 8-29-2008 by vandenberg] |
NO.
The advice I am about to give you is worth what you are paying for it.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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Even if Palmeto99 is right he is wrong. It is nothing more than an opinion stated with lots of ferocity. Osprey has a better handle on the whole
issue. If sharks was asking for a loan or some other type of approval then it would be a valid point, as it is however, it is just an opinion and no
matter how many times it gets stated here, the result is still the same.
I grew up on the Big Thompson River in Colorado which flooded big time in 1976 killing a lot of people. Most of it is rebuilt again and I guess
that the people who built there felt that it was worth the danger for the tranquility and happiness they received. Some even chose to rebuild without
flood insurance.
So while I certainly choose not to live along the river in Mulege I applaud Sharks choice to do so. I even applaud Palmeto99's choice to live in
Loreto but I certainly have no desire to live there.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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I feel good I edited all the nasty stuff out of my last post. Frankly I could care less what this individual and his pure safe life has to offer up.
Still you did not answer that easy question, why??
Laugh of the day:
| Quote: | Have you ever been to hurricane areas on the east coast.
I live in one when I am not in Baja |
Mil gracias
for that!!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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I have not been posting here because of the recent tone. Who needs it? So, now you've got the "tone" without the "art".
However, because this string affects me personally, I had to jump in. Yes, I have a beautiful, (brand new in 2006) casita in The Orchard. And yes, it
got flooded again.
Rationale for building there: There had been a small flood a couple of years before, which flooded a few feet inside low lying houses along the river
and some low lying houses set back from the river too. We can deal with that. Until then, there hadn't been a flood of any magnitude since 1957.
Our newer houses were built with solid foundations, walls of cinderblock with rebar. The floors are 4' above ANY historical flood line since 1957.
They can't be moved or raised on stilts.
When Hurricane John struck, it was downgraded to tropical storm status before hitting Mulege. As far as I know, all hurricanes downgrade to tropical
storms by the time they reach that far north. What made John so unique (freakish, if you will), was that it traveled up the spine of the mountains and
then stalled out over Mulege, dropping 20" of rain in 24 hours. As you can imagine, it all rushed down the mountain arroyos, flooded the whole valley
behind Mulege and then dropped into the Mulege River in a surge.
The surge carried with it, decapitated palm trees, debris from up river, cows, pigs, fish, sewage and stinky toxic mud. Not only was the floodline
over the eaves of our houses. The water came with such a force as to shear off the lanterns that were bolted to the exterior walls by the front door,
punched big chunks of out of the stucco, took out landscaping including palm trees. It took out gates and gate posts, log fences, water pumps/motors,
propane tanks, hot water heaters, a/c units, filled in septic tanks and pilas. It also knocked over the concrete pillar that held the electric meters,
electrical main, and water mains. It was all ripped right out of the ground and replaced with 5 feet of mud piles and debris.
Again, this was the first flood of that magnitude since 1957, and then there weren't many houses along the river. Oh yes, it was a calculated risk; a
risk we lost, but we all figured, well....that's it for another 50-100 years, as per historical records. We had made large investments there(large for
me, anyway). Yes, yes, yes...."Never invest in Mexico more than you can afford to lose". You can't just walk away from it. You have to restore it.
("Rebuild" was not required and is a misnomer).These are NOT palapas! And, we have Fideocomisos.
Now comes "Julio". Well, call it what you will but it is quite apparent that something is causing changes in the modern weather patterns. We are
discovering this along with New Orleans, Indonesia, our midwest and you. Julio came up the western Sea of Cortez coastline and carried tons of water.
It moved more quickly but not before flooding our river, the city of Constitution and others, roads, and then it roared across the SOC causing
devastating floods in Guaymas. Were they stupid to build a city there?? Who knew?
So, as Sharks does, so will we! We will shovel mud, scrub walls with fresh water and bleach, and re purchase lost appliances and furniture. I don't
really think that I will restore it for a second time to its original beauty. I don't think I will spend much money on comfortable furniture and
decorations; at least none that I can't move out as I close it up for the summer and fall.
One other thing: Hurricane season isn't over until late October. It could happen again next week. We are wiser now. I am only going to have a crew do
a rough cleaning and then do the detail work when I return in the late fall. This plan is already being implemented.
As far as I am concerned, this is our paradise. I wouldn't trade my paradise for any of yours. Unless you have spent time in Mulege, you are not
qualified to judge.You don't know what you are talking about. In fact, I am very happy with my neighbors, the local Mexican Nationals, the town and
where it is located. I am also happy that the people who ignorantly criticize haven't moved to Mulege and aren't my neighbors. We don't want you
polluting our paradise like you have polluted Bajanomad. 
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
I have not been posting here because of the recent tone. Who needs it? So, now you've got the "tone" without the "art".
However, because this string affects me personally, I had to jump in. Yes, I have a beautiful, (brand new in 2006) casita in The Orchard. And yes, it
got flooded again.
Rationale for building there: There had been a small flood a couple of years before, which flooded a few feet inside low lying houses along the river
and some low lying houses set back from the river too. We can deal with that. Until then, there hadn't been a flood of any magnitude since 1957.
Our newer houses were built with solid foundations, walls of cinderblock with rebar. The floors are 4' above ANY historical flood line since 1957.
They can't be moved or raised on stilts.
When Hurricane John struck, it was downgraded to tropical storm status before hitting Mulege. As far as I know, all hurricanes downgrade to tropical
storms by the time they reach that far north. What made John so unique (freakish, if you will), was that it traveled up the spine of the mountains and
then stalled out over Mulege, dropping 20" of rain in 24 hours. As you can imagine, it all rushed down the mountain arroyos, flooded the whole valley
behind Mulege and then dropped into the Mulege River in a surge.
The surge carried with it, decapitated palm trees, debris from up river, cows, pigs, fish, sewage and stinky toxic mud. Not only was the floodline
over the eaves of our houses. The water came with such a force as to shear off the lanterns that were bolted to the exterior walls by the front door,
punched big chunks of out of the stucco, took out landscaping including palm trees. It took out gates and gate posts, log fences, water pumps/motors,
propane tanks, hot water heaters, a/c units, filled in septic tanks and pilas. It also knocked over the concrete pillar that held the electric meters,
electrical main, and water mains. It was all ripped right out of the ground and replaced with 5 feet of mud piles and debris.
Again, this was the first flood of that magnitude since 1957, and then there weren't many houses along the river. Oh yes, it was a calculated risk; a
risk we lost, but we all figured, well....that's it for another 50-100 years, as per historical records. We had made large investments there(large for
me, anyway). Yes, yes, yes...."Never invest in Mexico more than you can afford to lose". You can't just walk away from it. You have to restore it.
("Rebuild" was not required and is a misnomer).These are NOT palapas! And, we have Fideocomisos.
Now comes "Julio". Well, call it what you will but it is quite apparent that something is causing changes in the modern weather patterns. We are
discovering this along with New Orleans, Indonesia, our midwest and you. Julio came up the western Sea of Cortez coastline and carried tons of water.
It moved more quickly but not before flooding our river, the city of Constitution and others, roads, and then it roared across the SOC causing
devastating floods in Guaymas. Were they stupid to build a city there?? Who knew?
So, as Sharks does, so will we! We will shovel mud, scrub walls with fresh water and bleach, and re purchase lost appliances and furniture. I don't
really think that I will restore it for a second time to its original beauty. I don't think I will spend much money on comfortable furniture and
decorations; at least none that I can't move out as I close it up for the summer and fall.
One other thing: Hurricane season isn't over until late October. It could happen again next week. We are wiser now. I am only going to have a crew do
a rough cleaning and then do the detail work when I return in the late fall. This plan is already being implemented.
As far as I am concerned, this is our paradise. I wouldn't trade my paradise for any of yours. Unless you have spent time in Mulege, you are not
qualified to judge.You don't know what you are talking about. In fact, I am very happy with my neighbors, the local Mexican Nationals, the town and
where it is located. I am also happy that the people who ignorantly criticize haven't moved to Mulege and aren't my neighbors. We don't want you
polluting our paradise like you have polluted Bajanomad.
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good words toneart. you'll be up and running, better than before in no time. remember that opinions of others are just that. opinions. each is valid
to some extent. we'll see how "they" react when "theirs" get blasted during the next big blow.
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CaddyShack
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 3-10-2008
Member Is Offline
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The Jungle
| Quote: | Originally posted by joshgesa
We are seeing a lot of posts with details about the Orchard. Does anyone have anymore detailed information about the Jungle. We are trying to get
information on Tom and Patti, John Dinning, and Pam and Randy.
Details would be sooooo great. |
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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Palmnut, you've made it blatantly clear that you don't come from sturdy pioneer stock & that you'll always play it safe rather than follow your
dreams. The people who chose to have casas along the river in Mulege do so for reasons that are beyond your comprehension. I haven't seen any "Oh,
woe is me!" posts begging for sympathy, what I have seen is you rubbing their noses in the fact that they're facing another setback, financial lost
& possibly a temporary setback in their dreams.
Whether you UNDERSTAND their choices or not is a moot point, they DO understand the full potential & choose to
follow their dreams. Financially I feel sorry for people like Sharks & Toneart & many others, but emotionally, I applaud their spirit in
following their dreams; they have what it takes to succeed!! IMHO, it's you with a superior attitude who feels the need to criticize their choices
& their intelligence when you have no dog in their fight & you who will always take a "safe" route....that I feel sorry for.
You've made your point, so please stop maligning them & their choices & take your negativity elsewhere! They have what it takes to persevere
& live their dreams, even in the face of occasional adversity! Stop
kicking them when they're down!!
Edit typo
[Edited on 8-29-2008 by longlegsinlapaz]
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CaddyShack
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 3-10-2008
Member Is Offline
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John Dinning was there during the storm. Idon`t think that his 5th-wheel suffered any damage. We sure hope not. Tom and Patty are on the way down and
we already know that they had water in their house. Mine and Pams house was high and dry but that is not any great consolation for us because we have
many friends down there that will have to clean up again. Pam and i weren`t heading down till October but this has changed everything. Bruce (who has
a place in the Orchard) and i will head down Tuesday to clean his house and help Tom and Patty. We will also check on our other friends houses and
anybody else`s that asks us to. Can anyone give an update on the electrical, water, and phone situation? To all you goofballs that are adding nothing
but a bunch of childish bickering. Grow up. I came on here to see if i could find and meaningful info. on the utilities situation and all there is is
this crap. Josh we are fine but we don`t know who you are.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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electrical and water is on in the orchard...
bring a pressure washer...
lots of people using bleach so the stores may run out
if you think your pressure pump got dunked in water bring a back up
bring shovels and buckets
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CaddyShack
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: 3-10-2008
Member Is Offline
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Bob ans Susan thanks for the info.
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palmeto99
Banned
Posts: 292
Registered: 7-15-2008
Location: loreto,BCS and East Coast USA (Spartanburg, SC)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Trying to bring the worlds people together one post at a time.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Palmnut, you've made it blatantly clear that you don't come from sturdy pioneer stock & that you'll always play it safe rather than follow your
dreams. The people who chose to have casas along the river in Mulege do so for reasons that are beyond your comprehension. I haven't seen any "Oh,
woe is me!" posts begging for sympathy, what I have seen is you rubbing their noses in the fact that they're facing another setback, financial lost
& possibly a temporary setback in their dreams.
Whether you UNDERSTAND their choices or not is a moot point, they DO understand the full potential & choose to
follow their dreams. Financially I feel sorry for people like Sharks & Toneart & many others, but emotionally, I applaud their spirit in
following their dreams; they have what it takes to succeed!! IMHO, it's you with a superior attitude who feels the need to criticize their choices
& their intelligence when you have no dog in their fight & you who will always take a "safe" route....that I feel sorry for.
You've made your point, so please stop maligning them & their choices & take your negativity elsewhere! They have what it takes to persevere
& live their dreams, even in the face of occasional adversity! Stop
kicking them when they're down!!
Edit typo
[Edited on 8-29-2008 by longlegsinlapaz] |
Is it being negative to suggest to people they use common sense. If that is true,I am guilty of that.
Do what you want in Mulege but stop the whining. Tony and the river people should take steps as was pointed out to them.
As for being a pioneer. I checked out where I bought in the early 90s and made sure I was not in harms way.Am I safe from storms? Not completely but I
have taken precautions after every storm incident and have reduced my financial and emotional exposure.
Tony, I would assume you will be lowering your price on your house and give full disclosure to any potential buyers.
I just saw it on a Mulege real estate web site that has it listed for $145,000.00 US
If being a pioneer is living as mud people on the river, I am not of good enough stock for that lifestyle.
The advice I am about to give you is worth what you are paying for it.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Face it man yer a hypocrit. Having a home along the hurricane paths in Florida proves this out.
Please tell us what happened in your past that prompts you to act this way.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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