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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2762
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: words cannot describe...
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Amen! To those children, I'm often inclined to ask "why aren't you in school"? -- in my very best Spanish!
Friends don't let friends drink white zinfandel.
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bajamigo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1218
Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: hubimos llegado
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It breaks my heart to see those poor innocent kids frying out in the sun or breathing the wonderful air around the clogged-up border crossings. I wish
I could think of even one way to "break the cycle," but when Dad (if there is one) is making $12/day and there are multiple mouths to feed, I guess
necessity drives them to do things that we may not approve of, but what's the alternative?
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
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You can see them at late hours into the night, very sad, where is the DIF, when you need them.
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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I've heard that in the more remote pueblos of Oaxaca people are literally starving. They are recruited by men who bring them to the city and drop
them off here and there to beg from locals and tourists. Most are older women, and women with children. They bring substantial cash in a day, which
is collected by their foremen each evening as they are driven to a communal place where they are minimally fed and housed. I was advised there that
if I wished to help them "so that I could feel better about myself" I should give them a sandwich rather than money.
Perhaps they are having to travel farther now,a very sad situation in any case.
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4346
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
Member Is Offline
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Truly sad indeed. It is hard to resist but it is the right thing to do. Giving them some fruit or food is what we try to do. We have heard the stories
of the exploitation and it is sickening. A real shame that is has to occur.
MAGA
marooons Are Governing America
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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I remember one night at a fiesta in Ensenada one of those Oaxacan looking ladies walked up to me and held up a cup like she was begging, so I poured
the cup full with some peanuts I had in a paper sack that I bought there at the fiesta. She seemed put off by my act of generosity and turned and
walked away, and just about all of the local people in the vicinity were busting out laughing. Can't say I didn't try.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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I know what everyone says about giving to them and I cannot help them all but I always give a little something to the few that approach me. I know, I
know it only encourages it but until Mexico does more to help the Indian population I guess I will always give. I guess the christian upbringing just
makes me give to those less fortunate, as I know how my dad struggled when he was a boy in Oklahoma where his mother was Indian. I have friends that
give me a hard time about this as does my wife but hunger is a beast unto itself. Ok, I ready to have the scolding begin but you will have it fall on
deaf ears, as my heart for these people are just too weak to stop. Later--------GT
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LB
Junior Nomad
Posts: 74
Registered: 10-1-2008
Member Is Offline
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A few years back we encountered a young boy selling chicklets in Cabo, he looked very ill and running a fever. A passing Mexicano translated for us
and we were able to take him to a tacueria to feed him..he was starving. We were advised not to give him any milk as it may make him sick. We bought
up all his chicklets as we had been told he could not go home until he sold them
all. The chicklets were left with the tacueria and he returned the next
day and picked up the box. Feeding people a meal is the way to go
rather than handing out money.
In Pueta Valarta we visited a large church, many tourists. A elderly indian
lady sat begging with baby. We watched for sometime. Two small boys
would come and pick up the money and run around the corner. This
went on and on, we concluded that in half an hour she had collected
an awful lot of money from the tourists, we thought she must live very well.
Never occured to us that she may have to give it to someone else.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13050
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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SAdly, the beggars in tourist areas are a well organized pimp outfit...however, there is another type of individual in our small villages who deserve
you help. In the small towns, certain people who have or have children who have debilitating illnesses need the support of everyone to help buy
wheelchairs, medication, operations etc. They sometimes are outside the stores or bakery in GN and sometimes are at gas stations with a paper
explaining thier problems and needs...and everyone knows them and drops coins in thier cans. I think this is lovely that everyone no matter how poor,
helps those less fortunate than they are.
But that is a great idea for the woman and children beggars to give them food...I would have never thought of that but will from now on...gracias
amigos
Maybe take note who the local people are helping and follow suit.
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Katiejay99
Nomad
Posts: 429
Registered: 9-3-2008
Location: Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: it is what it is
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In Cabo I would watch a couple of children selling chiclets and I truly felt sorry for them until I started paying more attention. They would "drop"
the whole box of chiclets and make it look like the tourist was at fault. I saw several tourists try to help pick them up and then hand them money -
sometimes as much as $20. It was a scam. I called the girls on it and they just ran off down the street to do it again.
When I had my restaurant in Cabo, I would give out free meals to the local beggars who truly needed something to eat. Many of the local - non indian -
Mexicans told me that the beggars are brought in and they are required to hand over the money they received during the day and sometimes that was to a
husband who used it for drugs and alcohol. What a shame.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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A friend of mine used to work for DIF in Tijuana and told me that we would help these folks more by not giving them money. Most of them are being
pimped and have to turn over all their cash. See those kids with them? They may not even be theirs she told me. Kids are rented out by the day as they
help to raise the sympathy value. Infants and kids who know how to juggle command a higher rate. I thought she was kidding but she assured me that it
was true. A neighbor told me that there was an expose written about them in a Tijuana paper a few years back and since that article came out, few
locals give them money any more.
I used to always give those moms with kids and cup in hand money too but no longer. I do however help someone I see who has an obvious impairment /
permanently disabled. The funny thing is that you see very few of them just looking for a handout - they are usually trying to sell something or
provide some type of service as they are able in exchange. I always try to buy whatever they are selling and I admire them for their tenacity and
pride.
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burnrope
Nomad
Posts: 214
Registered: 10-24-2006
Member Is Offline
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I give a buck a limb when crossing the border.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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It may help if you find a group or Hospital who has a need for Poor children who are not Pimped?
this happened several years ago in Loreto where we were able to help local people who where very poor with Food!
again, I just delivered a Pick up full of clothes to the Children of Constitution> Those poor Kids need all the Warm Clothes and jackets you can
get to them.
The thing to remember is to get your donations to a "General Hospital". If given to an unknown usually someone will try to get a 10% handling fee.
All of the Directors of General Hospitals in Mexico are 32 Degree Masons and follow along the same lines as the Masons do here in the States with the
language Disorders, Scottish Rite Hospitals, and Shriners.
So instead of giving to that "Pimped Person at the Border" seek out the ones who are truly needy and then do your thing.
I still encourge anyone going to La Paz to take a Suitcase full of warm Clothing by the General Hospital in Constitution and tell them it is For "Warm
jackets for Cold Kids" They will see that it goes to the Poorest of Poor.
Thank you for your Interest.
Skeet/Loreto
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Skip_Mac
Nomad
Posts: 102
Registered: 4-25-2008
Member Is Offline
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Gotta say, we see lots of beggars in SF and Berkeley too. In Baja, Mary and I have tried to give food. We always found something in the snack bag or
cooler. Not sure about the packoderms arrogant approach. I'd have just handed her the bag and walked off. People DO deserve a little pride no
matter their social position or a gringo's snap judgment.
Sheri's point about organization of begging is well made, true on several continents and also the Estados Unidos. Gifts of food or water can help the
person more than the pimp, a kind word or smile cost you Nothing. If you have ever lived near the edge, the smile or word can make a bad day
tolerable...and what begger has a Good day?
Conscious empathy is better than arrogant dismissal, IF you choose to try to build a better world through your actions. Disclaimer. These are My
Opinions Only. I am not attacking anyone, privileged or destitute.
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fishingmako
Nomad
Posts: 259
Registered: 10-10-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: always up
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What you are saying is true, but only for a few, I work with a Church in Ensernada doing missionary work and we go into the villages, in and around
PUNTA BANDA and other places close by, and these Indians work in the fields very hard for a few pesos daily, you don't see the places they live from
the road side, they are in, only a couple of miles, and never leave the Village, the men come and impreagnate them and leave, the Children that are 4
or 5 become the baby sitters, while the mothers go to work in the fields, most won't wear shoes because they don't feel comfortable with them on, now
these are the people to feel sorry for, their house is a pallet with card board attached, and dirt floors, believe me they have absolutely nothing, so
don't confuse yourself with all of them, all are basically in tijuana, Rosarito etc.
By the way these people speak absolutely NO SPANISH, they have there own language, and each village is different from one another, they don't even
know how old they are, they have no birth certificates and have not, and most will never see school, so some insight of the real Indians.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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I was being sincere - not arrogant. The peanuts were fresh roasted. It was a sacrifice to part with them. I wish I had them back right now.
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20004
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Spicy_Angel
this may sound mean to some, but please avoid giving to beggers. As a native mexicana, I am embarrassed to see women beggers (commonly originally
from oaxaca) with a baby slung over their shoulder, 2 or 3 other kids nearby unsupervised, and another baby in "the oven". |
the teachings of jesus were wasted on you. i can't believe that 9/10 posts on this topic are fat, well fed gringos and mexicans discouraging
charity,... you will all burn in h*ll for such selfishness and disregard for the downtrodden.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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Hey, I have shared 6 plastic bowls and spoons, a box of Trix and a box of Coco Puffs, and a carton of milk with obviously poor children in Ensenada.
We munched out right there on the curb of the street. I give when I can. I'm not going to hell - not for that anyway.
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postholedigger
Nomad
Posts: 189
Registered: 1-6-2008
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I just delivered a Pick up full of clothes to the Children of Constitution> |
I tried doing that but was informed at the border that bringing used clothes into Mexico is not allowed, even if it is for the poor. Got turned around
and sent back into the U.S. where I was sent to secondary so they could make sure that all I had in the back was clothes. All in all, a nice waste of
a couple of hours. Won't be trying that again any time soon.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
the teachings of jesus were wasted on you. i can't believe that 9/10 posts on this topic are fat, well fed gringos and mexicans discouraging
charity,... you will all burn in h*ll for such selfishness and disregard for the downtrodden. |
I guess if we follow this line of connection then we should all actively support the prostitutes in the same manner.  
It is always good to give in an anonymous manner but rarely does it do anything to help an individual when they are part of a bigger and corrupt
system. The point that Spicy Angel was trying to make is that it really does very little to help the individual who is hurting and continues to
perpetrate a system which allows for the exploitation of these indian women.
In Nogales, they had a mayor that really went to work on cleaning up the system many years ago and they found that the "labor unions" that kept
these indigineous Indian families in virtual slavery quit coming.
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