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sylens
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: ando bajando
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
That's good to know Bomberro. We had a notario tell us that only native-born Mexicans can ever avoid capital gains taxes on their property. Why "2
more years" before you won't be liable for cap gains? Are you required to hold the property with as escritura for a certain period of time?
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here we go again. i'm sure it depends on who you know, where you are, stage of moon and tides...
but three months ago we were at the closing of a sale of a house of a former nomad who bought july 2006 and sold july 2008 and because her fm3 was in
place and she had evidence of having lived in her home (telephone and water and electric bills), there was no capital gains tax. nada. zero. rien
de tout. 
there were other complications too crazy to go into here,    
but bottom line is in ensenada with notaria #3, she paid no tax in mexico.
lili
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Marla Daily
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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Still no response from Bancomer
After four trips to our local Bancomer rep. in Loreto, we were instructed to direct all of our fideicomiso issues to Raul Leon at Bancomer in Cabo San
Lucas. As originally noted, our 30 year fideicomiso expires this year and we need to extend or renew it. Apparently we are among the first to do so.
We were told our extension will be good for only 20 years (30 original years + 20 year extension). Our emails to Sr. Leon asking the following
questions continue to remain unanswered. This is like Waiting for Godot!
1. What paperwork do we need to provide for the renewal and to whom do we give it?
(Please be very specific with an exact list of things required.)
2. What are the costs of the renewal or extension?
3. How many years will this be good for?
4. What happens at the end of this term? Can it be renewed again, and of so, for how long?
5. What happens after 100 years?
6. Is there a penalty if we go to another bank instead of Bancomer?
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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There must be a decent real estate attorney in BCS. If you value something that you want to keep for 100 years, spend $200 and get real help with
this situation. If there are other foreigners in need of the same result, join up and lower the cost if the $200 is too steep of a price to pay,
alone.
If you like performing brain surgery on yourself - keep doing what you are doing.
I applied for six trusts after the original 30 years had expired. I now have 50 year trusts. I don't figure to worry about 100 years as I always
have the option of selling the remaining portion of the 50 year trust to another foreigner before I turn 100.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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Why don't you try the Notario in Loreto first? They should be able to give you the correct answer as to the length of renewal and probably do the
bulk of the paperwork for you.
Ken
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geobas
Banned
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-1-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by cajhawk
I'm not sure where your information came from, but all of the documents I have seen do not jive with this information. Fideicomisos are of 50 year
duration with renewal timeframe of 50 years. According to multiple sources, there is no limit to the number of renewals available to one property. I
can cite website after website as well as my Mexican Real Estate Attorney's opinions on this. |
I see this same myth repeated over and over again on all the Mexican real estate websites targeted at foreigners. It has become so common that people
think it is true, apparently even Mexican attorneys. The actual regulations in the Foreign Investment Law are quite different. The FIL says, quite
clearly "The maximum initial term of a Fideicomiso is 50 years, which may be extended upon application to the Secretary of Foreign Relations." That is
the sum total of the law in the area, there is no higher authority and there are no other modifying regulations.
Read the words carefully. Mexico MAY extend the fideicomiso, it does not say it MUST extend it. The rules also do not say for how long the fideicomiso
MAY be extended. It definitely does not say for another 50 years.
Another falsehood is the common statement that at the end of the term of the fideicomiso, the beneficiary can sell the property to anyone. That is not
true. At the end of the fideicomiso, the property can only be sold to a qualified person, which is basically a Mexican national, not a foreigner. You
also have to look at the wording in the fideicomiso document. If the lawyer who drafted it left a reversionary interest to the original Mexican who
sold the property, at the end of the fideicomiso, the Mexican seller gets the property back, for free. If there is not a reversionary interest, the
beneficiary will have to find a "qualified" buyer, assuming Mexico chooses not to renew the fideicomiso.
Here is the only place where I have seen the correct explanation of a fideicomiso:
http://www.fredlaw.com/articles/international/inte_0504_pjk_...
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Marla Daily
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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Today's Notario and Bancomer information re: Fideicomiso
OK. So today we had visit #5 with the Bancomer representative here in Loreto (who is MOST accommodating). After a visit with her we also paid a visit
to Notario #19 in Loreto. Sum total of what we were told to expect:
1. We will be allowed to submit a "letter of instruction" to Bancomer requesting that our 30-year-fideicomiso be extended for an additional 20 years.
( No the bank didn't have a sample letter form available; no they are not available online thru Bancomer; no the notary doesn't have the letter form
because it is up to the bank to have it.)
2. This "letter of instruction" needs to be submitted to the bank 90 days in advance of the fideicomiso expiration—not before.
3. There is an 8000 peso fee to be paid to Bancomer for a consulant whom the Bank hires in Mexico city to process our letter of instruction;
4. There is an $800 US fee to be paid to Bancomer;
5. We will need to also submit the usual stack of papers (no hay predial—property is lien free; property tax receipts, etc). We will need a new
appraisal.
6. This all goes to the Notario and there will be his fee.
7. A new annual Bancomer fee will be written into the 20-year extension contract.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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The term "Glutton for punishment" comes to mind.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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I know of hundreds of Americans getting 50 more years on their expiring trusts, not just 20 being added to the old 30. many of them chose to switch
banks to be the administrator of their trusts at the same time and they still got 50 year trusts.
That list is not the only stuff that the bank will require.
There is a need for a physical survey of the property and some other stuff, but hey, you seem to be happy with partial answers so far.
How's that brain surgery going?
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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Marla Daily
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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BANCOMER responds because of Baja Nomad!
WOW! I just got a very nice email from Raul Leon at Bancomer in CSL who said he didn't get my email but saw my posts on Baja Nomad. How incredible he
responded! And how very nice! I am very happy he has made contact. He confirmed a few things and further explained, as I quote below:
1. Regarding the Letter of Instruction:
"First, you have to beware that this is a process that need to be submitted to Mexican authorities, not depending on Bancomer but on the foreign
affairs ministry. The letter of instructions you have to send us you can deliver it trough our Loreto Branch and directed to Ethel Castro (not to me).
The time that the permit will be renewed will be 20 years and after that it can be renewed only one and for 50 years, after that, the property can be
transfer to a new trust"
2. Regarding submittal of Letter of Instruction:
That’s it and this is a rule given by Mexican authorities, not by Bancomer
3. Regarding payment of $8000 pesos to consultant in Mexico City:
"Yes, we do this trough an outsourcer company or agent because they are experts and are very very fast on this, but beware that Bancomer don’t charge
a single coin for this, the majority of the money will be received by the foreign affairs ministry as taxes and only a small fraction are the
outsourcers agent fee."
4. Regarding the $800 US fee to Bancomer:
"The amount depends on what the trust establishes in the fee’s clause, so whatever is expressed there will prevail (plus outstanding fees, in case
they are)"
5. Regarding submitting lots of paperwork, new appraisal etc.:
"As far as I know, Bancomer DOES NOT require the “predial”, nor the appraisal, this documents are required by law by the notary public and I seriously
doubt an appraisal is required because there are not ax implications regarding this transaction, I’m sure you had been misunderstanding this part or
the notary provide your with no accurate information regarding this. This is not a sale, not a transfer or rights or a property acquisition, it’s only
a renewal and I don’t think and appraisal is not needed."
6. Regarding Notary:
"Yes a notary by law must execute the documentation in able to be inscribed on the public register."
7. Regarding annual Bancomer fee:
"Yes, it be standardized with the Bancomer fees."
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geobas
Banned
Posts: 27
Registered: 9-1-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
I know of hundreds of Americans getting 50 more years on their expiring trusts, not just 20 being added to the old 30. |
I think you have that story a little muddled. Let me tell you what really happened. The first law to allow a fideicomiso was passed in 1973. That law
allowed for a 30-year trust and at the end of the term the property had to be sold to a qualified individual, e.g a Mexican national. Then in 1989,
President Salinas amended that law to allow for a 30+30 year term. However, before the first fideicomiso ever expired, which would have been in 2003,
President Salinas amended the law again in 1993 to extend all the original 30-year fideicomiso's to a 50-year term. They also put in the wording I
stated above, which said the government MAY extend the 50-year fideicomiso, if requested. The wording does not say the government MUST extend the
fideicomiso.
Now, the 100's of people you know who had their fideicomiso' extended are in two projects, San Antonio Del Mar and Las Gaviotas. These two projects
were created on 30-year master fideicomiso's in 1973. In 2003, when they expired, they were all extended to 50 years. But it was 50-years from 1973.
They were all extended to a 50-year fideicomiso by operation of law in 1993, when the FIL was amended.
And that, Gull, is why Marla is only having her fideicomiso extended for 20 years. It is being extended in accordance with the 1993 amendment to the
law which automatically extended all of the 30-year fideicomiso's to 50 years from the original date. Isn't it just a thrill to now know that Marla is
being charged all those fees to extend a fideicomiso that was already extended to 50 years by operation of law in 1993?
As far as I know, since no 50-year fideicomiso has yet to expire, none have been extended beyond 50 years. The only ones that were extended were the
original 30-year ones, and that was because of an amendment to the law, not a decision by the ministry.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9011
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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I'd like to recommend this thread for the Nomads Hall of Fame. It contains plenty of twists and turns, the inclusion of a major bank employee and some
really great info.
Throw in a rant or two by Cabron, the musings of gnukid, Dave and The Gull and it's raised to five stars !!!!
Nomads is as enlightening and entertaining as ever.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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geobas
Your nicely told story is not supported by the facts. Those communities you cited no longer have master trusts.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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dao45
Junior Nomad
Posts: 93
Registered: 5-21-2007
Member Is Offline
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A mexican attoney for $200 to $500 an hour???I think that says it all
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dao45
A mexican attoney for $200 to $500 an hour???I think that says it all |
Figures posted here rarely are factual. Live and learn.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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