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tigerdog
Nomad
Posts: 135
Registered: 12-7-2005
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BajaGringo, you are dead right when you say "It should make zero difference if the guy was a crook or a choir boy. Law enforcement has to toe the
legal line, just as we are required to do." Recognizing that two wrongs do not make a right, I do have some reservations as to whether or not law
enforcement as represented by Johnny Sutton was toeing the legal line, though.
\"You know Hobbes, sometimes even my lucky rocket-ship underpants don\'t help.\" - Calvin, from Calvin and Hobbes
Visit me at Rocky Point Tides
http://rptides.blogspot.com/ |
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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That is why I think that this is working out about the way it should. These guys were wrong but they don't deserve to spend 10 years either.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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BajaGringo, I am not excusing their actions of not reporting and if they had they would have been OK on this. However, once something comes out from
the crook,because that is what he is,without an officer's report being timely filed the crooks version becomes the real deal no matter what was real
or not. Now, as to the crook going for the gun in fight situation this is usually true. The bad guy has decided to fight an officer and just seems
to be the next stupid thing they do thinking it puts them in charge if they can get it. That is why new hosters have a thumb down movement pushing
motion that most crooks do not know to prevent the officers weapon from being taken, hopefully. What happens most of the time in a struggle for a
weapon out of an officer's hoster is the officer is usually in a life and death struggle and that officers wants that weapon to end up in their hand
as quickly as possible. Most officers talk "war stories" on these life and death struggles but all of them involved in them have that very quite
moment to themselves once it is all over and nobody is watching. Most officers go their whole careers without ever shooting anyone but I will say
most have drawn that weapon more times than they care to remember. I guess what I am trying to say is, again not excusing the officers not reporting,
those split second decisions officers have to make day after day take a dramatic toll not just on the officers but their families. They do not get a
Monday Quarterback day but again that is what goes with being an officer, so again document, document, document and do the right thing even if it
becomes the wrong thing after some Monday Night Quarterback reviews it. You are right BajaGringo we have a right to expect each and every time that
officers follow the same laws they enforce. Still hope these guys get a chance to turn their lives around for their sake and their families sake. I
also hope this crook when he gets out does not get successful in killing one of these officers, especially one of the young officers still learning
from experiences in the field. Later------bajafun777
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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I'm happy the were commuted. Ya, they made mistakes. Marbe they should have been reprimanded or fired. But a jail sentence seemed very wrong and sent
a bad message to all the border jumpers.
Number 1 important thing is protect the border at any cost.
And ya they shot him in the ass as he was running away, but maybe he was shooting at them when he was shot.
They say yes, he says no. I'll give our guys the benefit of the doubt.
Don't cross the border illegally and you won't get shot.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I am just passing along what family in law enforcement has shared with me. They all sympathize with the officers but what smelled rotten to them was
not reporting the incident. Struggling with a suspect for your gun with shots fired and you don't even report the incident???
Not a one of them believed the officers but they also didn't want to see them get 10 years either.
I doubt we will ever know what really happened but I will bet a month of dinners the truth is not in the officers "corrected" report either. That is
why law enforcement has procedures and ALL reports of such incidents are to be reported immediately and made in a sworn statement. Courts give cops a
lot of leeway and an officer's sworn statement is considered heavy evidence in court. When they pull shenanigans like this is does smell to high hell
and that is why they are in the position they are in.
I am glad to see that they got their sentences commuted but I don't want them wearing a badge and gun again either. They will probably both make a
fortune anyway with a movie and a couple of books...
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Fishy MISinformation
Thorny Fish (Sculpin) says that "To be pardoned, you have to admit guilt".
HUH ?
There are NO conditions required for a pardon. Beyond that, there have been myriad "preemptory" pardons issued over the years to preclude
prosecutions for political or other venal purposes.
The pardon power, where granted to a State Official, is unconditional.
In theory, GWB "could" issue pardons to EVERY member of his administration, including himself, before leaving office. Given Nasty Nancy's posturing
yesterday regarding Congressional Investigations of the Bushies, that might be a good idea.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
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I think that they do that anyway, by in large but not via a pardon but with a lot of back stage deals. Most of which we will never know...
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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I don't know if there is any stomach within the incoming administration to go after the lawbreakers who condoned and committed torture in violation of
international law. But, if no effort is made, then this stands as precedent for future administrations. That being said, probably the real culprit in
the Border officer's case is the "tough on crime frenzy". Much like the California three strikes law that does no real good, in 1986, Congress passed
legislation for Federal Mandatory Minimum sentences, tying the hands of Federal judges. In this case, there was an automatic mandatory 10 year
sentence added for the commision of a crime while using a firearm. So one or two year sentences were automatically 11 and 12.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Good point...
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
"To be pardoned, you have to admit guilt".
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I believe that meant to say, "To accept a pardon is a tacit admission of guilt." But, who wouldn't accept a pardon when freedom comes with it.
I believe this case tests the moral convictions of our society. Our definition of right and wrong and when it's acceptable to ignore those standards,
if ever. I have trouble with this.
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The Sculpin
Nomad
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Mood: Riding into the Sunset, looking for a sunrise.
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Thank you Dennis for clarifying. And thank you Mr. Bill for agreeing with me on all but a technical point! It really is a new day!
Whoa there, Cowboy - pull back on those reins!
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BajaDove
Nomad
Posts: 194
Registered: 11-23-2008
Location: La Paz
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If they were bad guys they would have a colored report on file Bad guys know first plea get the credit.
As a police friend told me about the beating of a man caught after a chase. "You don't know why he's running and after a fast chase you get pumped."
I agree I don't want to meet them when they have a gun Enforcers should control that pumped feeling.
If its not where it is, its where it isn\'t.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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As Dennis said, many of us have struggled with this one - we want to see the scumbag drug runner gone but at the same time we want the law to be
followed, by ALL.
It is a slippery subject and one in which our constitutional rights are hanging. I suppose if I really wanted to, I could make a case to convince
myself either way on this one if I follow the law on one hand, and emotions on the other...
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BajaDove
Nomad
Posts: 194
Registered: 11-23-2008
Location: La Paz
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Is that why we all have duel personalities.
If its not where it is, its where it isn\'t.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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BG- the dichotomy is no more evident with the Federal Minimum Mandatory sentencing. We pay Federal Judges a decent salary. They are appointed, albeit
with some political consideration, having to have certain qualifications. To take judgment of considering factors other than the crime itself out of
the hands of the judges, is ludicrous. One of the underlying factors in the push for the existing guidelines was to serve harsh sentences to drug
offenders. Wow. Look at what we got. The United States has more people in prison than any country in the world except Russia. Great company, huh?
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2637
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
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Mood: wait and see
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BajaFun 777,
Speed kills...
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The United States has more people in prison than any country in the world except Russia. Great company, huh? |
Obviously that strategy has worked well...
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Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
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Mood: Bajatastic
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OK.. I'm going to officially have a Baja Nomad tizzy fit!
This shooting occurred near El Paso, Texas!
Nowhere near Baja!!! OMFG!!! What is Mexico news doing in a Baja, Mexico forum!
OK... this post is all satire.. posted for a grumpy old bird.. 
Carry on.. and right on..
Remember.. Baja IS part of Mexico..
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Oso, so does letting drug runners put our citizens at risk driving at high speeds and the wrong way on a freeway. Not reporting and lying are
different animals. Not reporting is a policy break and lying brings about the old law phrase of "You lie You Die," especially when going before a
court or your supervisors. Again, I do not excuse their not reporting but as to lying I do not what happened that night. Further, I also know that
this crook has a continuing drug running crimes along with eluding and fighting with officers. So, we lock up the officers for 11 and 12 years and
this crook will be out shortly just wait and see. Bush needed to commute their sentences over his buddy's desire to bury them. Again, hopefully
letting this crook of again will not be at the expense of an officer"s life or any of our citizens lives when he does as he pleases racing down the
road with his illegal drugs or illegal immigrants he is running. Easy to say to hell with the officers but their line of work is very tough,
dangerous, stressful, and sometimes in those moments bad decisions are made. I would be holding some supervisors responsible for not demanding a
report before these officers went off duty that night, especially due to all of the radio traffic on this situation. Later--------
bajafun777
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
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Mood: High
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mango
OK.. I'm going to officially have a Baja Nomad tizzy fit!
This shooting occurred near El Paso, Texas!
Nowhere near Baja!!! OMFG!!! What is Mexico news doing in a Baja, Mexico forum!
OK... this post is all satire.. posted for a grumpy old bird..
Remember.. Baja IS part of Mexico.. |
...and Mexico is part of the world, and the world is part of the universe, and what planet are you from?
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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