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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
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Mood: High
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No Fear, Dearies
| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
You are right, it is a rather incoherent post, Barry, and probably one I shouldn't have made. Not the first in this category, as you may also think
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Paula, no problem. Your totally incoherent post was an improvement over that total rant from djh.
The world has already ended and the two of you are still hanging on. Good for you.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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| Quote: | Originally posted by djh
I don't wanna fix my avatar (speaking of candidates for "Board Monitor") . . . you bossy hypocrit. |
Fixing an avatar appears be too taxing after blowing a blood vessel in one's head.
You left off the Naaa, Naaaa, Naaa, Naa, Naa, in your adult rant.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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"Secular" progressives says a ton. I always thought we we had separation of church and state. Over and out.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Barry A,
You wrote: "What I was really driving at was how would you have done things differently than the "neo-cons" and Bush------I have never really
understood just how the secular-progressives would conduct the protection of the USA in response of the attacks on our homeland."
I would not have listened to the Defense Policy Board and it's NeoCons who wanted to invade Iraq even before 9/11 and who used the destruction of the
World Trade Center as an excuse to do so.
See under section titled "War on Terror" for references:
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1391.html
See further:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/13/8923
One can read the documents if you take the time to do so. I am not making this up.
After 9/11 the world sided with the USofA and we had incredible support to go after Al Qaida and Osama Bin Laden. The world said "We are Americans
too" I would have harnessed that cooperation to go after Al Quida in Afghanistan and used our resources to improve the lives of the Afghan/Pakistani
people so they had an alternative to the influence of the zealots of the fundamentalist Muslim elements who use the military presence of the USofA in
the Middle East to support their political agenda. I would have put our resources into Afghani infrastructure i.e. schools, roads carpet making etc.
and attempt to improve the quality of life for the people of Afghanistan, which has been engaged in war for decades.
I would not have cut the Department of State out of the process of winning hearts and minds rather than using military force to fight Terrorism.
Terrorism is in no ones interest if you have peace and prosperity, I would have focused on that.
America is a beacon of hope in the world and the people of the world admire and aspire to our wealth and material goods. I would have trusted this and
worked to side with progressive forces around the world and engage even more in foreign aid, Peace Corps, etc. that put American people on the ground
to support the efforts of local people. I would have used US dollars to fund local small loan banks like Kiva, to support local economies to become
self sufficient in Afghanistan so that they could rely on something else beside opium.
I would have pressured Israel to actually provide a homeland for the Palestinians. I would have opposed further construction by Israel in Palestinian
lands.
I would have done whatever I could do to provide the Social Services that are so needed in the Middle East rather than leave it up to Al Qaida/ Hamas,
Radical Clerics, etc.
I would have engaged in massive public relations campaign around the world focusing on the dangers of Terrorism to All Nations. I would have done what
ever possible to marginalize fundamentalists of all stripes in the USofA and around the world. I would have supported peaceful progressive groups
around the world and particularly in the Middle East who were improving the lot of their common people.
Unfortunately the USofA was gripped by fear and turned to weapons of mass destruction rather than to diplomacy and nation building. The reactivity of
the USofA is exactly what Bin Laden had predicted and our militaristic response and occupation of another sovereign nation without provocation has
spawned a generation of terrorists, just as Bin Laden hoped for in his writings. Bin Laden played the USofA like a harp, we have been playing his tune
since 9/11. Recall that the Soviet Union bankrupted itself in an arms race with the USofA and by fighting a protracted war in Afghanistan, which they
lost. The Soviet Union also relied on the use of force rather than nation building strategies.
Iflyfish
edited for atrocious spelling
[Edited on 3-8-2009 by Iflyfish]
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Take it back. Amen Fishy. Great post. Veritas magnum.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by morgaine7
BajaGringo: "Global economy" is clear, but what exactly constitutes a "global standard of living"? Not sure where you're going with that. 
Kate |
A global standard of living?
Historically the USA has enjoyed one of the highest standards of living on the planet for many decades as far as wages and the buying power of the
average working joe when compared to the rest of the world.
My theory is that going to a global economy will level the playing field and wages/buying power will reach a global mean. Good news for third world
nations and bad news for countries like the USA.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Iflyfish-----
VERY WELL SAID, I must say, and I am printing it out for future reference in countering arguements in the future.
You did not address "economics" here in the USA, but then I really was not clear in my challenge to Tony on that issue, I guess.
Have you given any thought to joining the State Dept. ? We could use you there. All your points make good sense to me. Tho I am sure there are
counter arguments, I certainly am not the one to make them, and from where I stand I cannot imagine what they are.
Again, very well done. Bravo, and thanks for taking the time.
Barry
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
Member Is Offline
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Iflyfish - Excellent post - Thank you.
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CortezBlue
Super Nomad
Posts: 2213
Registered: 11-14-2006
Location: Fenix/San Phelipe
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I have seen some statistics that if you take all of the shootings in the USA and added them up it would be similar to Mexico. I was at least happy to
see the piece that Fox News did on Mexico and during the interview the anchor blurts out he had just been to Mexico and had a wonderful time, felt
safe and was treated like a king.
Bottom line if the USA started broadcasting the murders in Baltimore, MD on foreign TV our tourist industry would go down the toilet just as bad as
Mexico.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CortezBlue
Bottom line if the USA started broadcasting the murders in Baltimore, MD on foreign TV our tourist industry would go down the toilet just as bad as
Mexico. |
Can't imagine why any self-respecting tourist would want to go to a ghetto anyway. Let them report all of it.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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The difference between American street crime and what's going on in Baja is that the affluent areas in Baja are hit hard as well as the seedy. There
is a feeling of a lack of control and it's hard to escape from the danger of loss of material and life. It would be like if the drive from Santa
Clarita to San Diego passed through one big Compton where you have to keep your guard up at all times.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Thank you. It is hard to present complex ideas in an age of simplicity and sound bites.
Fear activates the most primitive areas of the brain, the part we share with the reptiles.
The brain evolved into a tripartite structure starting first with the primitive reptilian brain, adding the neocortex, including the speech areas, and
finally the frontal lobes which are used for forethought, anticipating consequences and putting a brake on the primitive reactions and impulses. Folks
with Attention Deficit Disorder have an underactive frontal lobe. The Bush family tree is loaded with folks with ADD/Dyslexia and this can account for
much of the impulsivity, reactivity, inappropriate comments, dancing etc. that we saw with this man. This can also account for much of this mans
limited capacity for complex reasoning.
Under threat the “higher” areas of function are suppressed so that our organism can fight/flight. The glands secrete adrenaline and we are off to the
races. Ditto with testosterone, our IQ is diminished by 10 points when we are aroused. This fact is of course used by hunters to shoot rutting deer
and elk who drop their defenses in the pursuit of carnal pleasure.
Much of the folly of history can be traced to three flaws in human beings: Hubris, Fear leading to over-reaction and concrete, black/white thinking.
Black/White thinking leads to simplistic thinking i.e. Fight when afraid and feed it by machismo fueled testosterone.
These reactions are what keep us locked in a “war on drugs” and a foreign policy that has relied on the use of military power to “solve” complex
problems. The either/or, black/white thinking of “you are either with us or against us” is an excellent example of this sort of thing. Bush is a
recovering alcoholic and fundamentalist Christian. This sort of rigid thinking is a hallmark of recovering alcoholics and Fundamentalists and
Utopians of all stripes. Beware the “true believer” who is driven by ideology. There is no gray for these folks and pragmatic solutions are very hard
to develop with these folks. This sort of thinking is of course not confined to the right of the political spectrum, it can also be found on the left
in rigid, militant, rabidly political correct people who utterly lack the capacity to laugh at themselves. In the field of religion one finds
fundamentalist, black/white, rigid thinking among the major dualistic religions including Christianity and the Muslim Religion.
Since these are human characteristics and you will find them cross culturally it is useful to consider how nations act like people.
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Fish------
Correct me if I am going astray here, but it seems to me that you have just described the very type of people that run for office and win, or simply
rise to power in other non-democratic countries-------That does not bode well for a solution any time soon, does it, as this must be true in every
Nation on earth?
Barry
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Iflyfish.
Your posts here are brilliant and they explain a lot to we who are not scientifically educated. Your Foreign Policy Doctrine (Sarah Palin...did you
get that?) is far better than the one that has sent our country on it's downward spiral. We (our Republic) have done it to ourselves, of course. And
the Bushies went right ahead and did it without consulting you or me. Lord and his bureaucrats know I wrote to my representatives, but all I got in
return were form letters...poor form at that.
If I were unscruplulous I would plagierize your posts and claim them as my own.  I have decided, however, that you may speak for me.
It would seem that GWB heard the Tom Waits line, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy", and got it backwards.  Can't that guy get anything right? (Sorry, Barry). 
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Your posts here are brilliant and they explain a lot to we who are not scientifically educated. Your Foreign Policy Doctrine (Sarah Palin...did you
get that?) is far better than the one that has sent our country on it's downward spiral. We (our Republic) have done it to ourselves, of course. And
the Bushies went right ahead and did it without consulting you or me. Lord and his bureaucrats know I wrote to my representatives, but all I got in
return were form letters...poor form at that.
If I were unscruplulous I would plagierize your posts and claim them as my own. I have decided, however, that you may speak for me.
It would seem that GWB heard the Tom Waits line, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy", and got it backwards. Can't that guy get anything right? (Sorry, Barry). |
Tony-------to me your political barbs are pointless, counterproductive, and I tune out when I see stuff like this----totally!
Iflyfish, on the otherhand, has presented here great, brilliant points, without the barbs, that make very good sense, to me.
I am sorry you chose to go down this road, Tony-----it is not like you.
Barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Your hypothesis certainly has historical precedence. Throw in the occasional
Megalomaniac, Grandiose Narcissist and Sociopath and you pretty much have the mix. There are occasionally though people who are not corrupted by power
and who genuinely have egalitarian motives and are not rigid in their approach toward governance.
Norte Americans generally don't trust deep thinkers and are wooed with simplistic rhetoric. Few people read enough to have thought through issues in
any depth and so we have a populace easily swayed by the simple solutions presented for complex problems i.e. the Rush Limbaugh’s of the world who
appeal to simplistic, black/white thinking. When we are afraid, simplistic solutions have the most appeal. When aroused by fear, most lack the
capacity for complex analysis and move to reactivity. Those that can see this tendency in human beings are able to mold and manipulate the masses. See
Machiavelli’s The Prince, The Art of War and Karl Rove for excellent examples of this.
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Fish----again, well said.
I would add to your list the current crowd in the Administration as utilizing the knowledge of what people react too, namely fear.
I don't say that to criticise------just an observation. Your reference to "narcissists" also worries me.
Barry
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TacoFeliz
Nomad
Posts: 268
Registered: 7-22-2005
Location: Here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Exploratory
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Thank you, Don Jorge
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Have any of you guys got the feeling that now everything runs on fear? |
Not in everything nor everywhere is fear running the show.
This morning I took a bike ride around the farm, the dogs running ahead in the north side shelterbelt looking for cottontails to chase. I looked south
at the strawberry fields. I got off the bike walked a few rows checking strawberry plants for what a farmer checks a plant for: everything. The plants
are healthy, crowns are splitting wildly, big blooms are pushing out, fruits s hanging in all shades of green, white and red.
I looked north to watch the dogs and across the fence is a sports park. In the baseball field were teenage boys dressed in Dodgers blue uniforms,
playing catch, warming up their arms. The sound of of balls hitting leather mitts is in the air. Spring is almost here in So Cal. In Baja it is
spring. Hope springs eternal in a farmers world and in Mexico too.
I have spent the last month mostly travelling in Mexico. Guadalajara is a big city now, globalized in a predictable manner, lost its charm for me.
Tequila is a place I could hang for a few days. Globalized by a passion for agave liquor, good stuff, it still has a charm in and around it.
Yucatan, Quintana Roo. There it seems better than ever right now if you know where to go. Cancun is an airport, a great jumping in place for Campeche,
Quintana Roo and Yucatan.
Just off what used to not be the beaten path are ruins, history, great food and great people from all over the world. Chilangos who escaped DF with
their money, their prejudices and fortunately their recipes too! Canadian women married to Mayan men renting clean bungalows on a shore within sight
of Belize and renting a panga to fish, snorkle or dive from.
An Austrian married to a Veracruz chica, combining work ethic y la alegre de una Veracruzana and can she ever cook. The fresh water shrimps they
caught that day were so good. She bragged how nadien in the area knew how to catch shrimp, but her brother from Veracruz, of course he knew and did..
And me, a gringo born in LA travelling with a Chilanga. We meet more people, Argentinos y Italianos. Always a buen dia salutation from everyone.
Gloabalization can work.
The simple things are more than simple, they are basic to happiness. Family, friends, good food, good coffee and even Nescafe sometimes too. Cold
drinks on a hot day, gardening, fishing, hunting, cards, storytelling and just hanging out doing nothing are healthy for ones body and soul.
Baja taught many of us to enjoy these simple things. Slowly simplicity disappeared form our southern California neighborhoods over the course of the
last 40 years but it remained largely intact in Baja and Mexico. Thus Baja and Mexico continue to remind me of what really matters.
Si se puede nene. |
What a refreshing post. Clearly, there is still a lot to like about the world.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Unfortunately for all of us both parties and politicians use fears,lies, self-serving interests to undermind us for their pocket books. Not everyone
is losing in the Stock Market follow the money and you will quickly see a group that has made its fortunes over and over off the unrest in Countries
not just the USA. Wall Street common investors rely on stable conditions to make their money work and this is not being done due to newspapers and
news media doing their best to "Scream the Sky is Falling the Sky is Falling," as it sells more news papers. Just the way it is and will be since its
all about the money and me me me!! We just have to weather through all of this B.S. and it will take anywhere from 2 at best to 3 year years to
hopefully climb out of this mess. The stock market will go back up but when it does the stable effects will not be in place enough to keep it there
and the roller coaster will ride in a downward fashion again until we do have a stable level of economic reality. Take your credit cards put them in
a deep plastic holder with water freeze them and stay away from them until we climb out of this mess. I know it is hard to just turn off any use of
credit cards as a number of hotels will give you a very hard time about renting a room unless you have one. Our world has been built on credit,
corrupt politicians, fear running news stations and newspaper to gain the viewers, and the end result is us the taxpayer that bails them out at our
expense. Not against giving a hand up but not a continued hand out is what I live by and have given many hours of helping nonprofit charities raise
money to help others. Right now a lot of hard working people are being displaced by this economy, so nobody is immune as even retirement systems are
at risk right along with Social Security. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone to come out of this better and stronger but we need to pull
together like in World War II not against each other, just my views on these issues. Take care my fellow Nomads--------bajafun777
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Oh RaspBarrys!
"Barb" was my wicked stepmother,
my father, the Good Humor Man.
They turned out complex progeny
to roam The Neverland.
We show no fear,
We bear no hate.
In flight we dare
to celebrate.
Perhaps a tad of hubris
will get in the way.
But we are pranksters
who can make your day.
So open up and
come on down.
This clown will trick you
into losing that frown.
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