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Author: Subject: Fear, Fear, Fear!!!
Iflyfish
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[*] posted on 3-13-2009 at 06:18 PM


Tent City Sites:

http://www.google.com/search?q=US+Tent+cities&rls=com.mi...


"Texas just announce that 'We do not need the Govt. handout for unemployment."

"The true needy are being taken care of in this country; Just ask a few--Not the Druggies nor the people who pull the Workman’s Comp. Injury deal with the Employer doing the Paying."

Yup, those worthless, shiftless, lazy people who are unemployed. They lack the virtue of us who have "made our own way". Those people who feign injury on the job, we know they are faking so they can live the life of Riley on our dime. We all know that work places are safe in the USofA and if it weren't for that worthless OSHA and Worker's comp we would all be better off. If someone is injured on the job, and by the way that really never happens, it's their own darn fault. I would never be so stupid as to be injured on a job.

We know that those worthless families who are living on the streets and in shelters are there because they did not have the moral fiber that we do, I can prove this, I am not living in a shelter, I am well off. If I can do it anyone can. There must be something wrong with them.

The poor Mexicans that we see on the streets begging are also of poor moral character and are there because they are just lazy. Pure and simple. I have my own house, boat, can afford to travel and there those lazy buggers are, sponging off of the rest of us. If they were only more moral, they would obviously have what I have. The Indio's who we see selling trinkets on the street are another example of lack of morality and virtue. See I don't live on the streets selling trinkets and I am full of virtue. The Native people of the USofA that we see drunk on the streets just lack the moral fiber and virtue that I have because I am not drunk and on the streets. The only reason that someone would be drunk and on the streets is because they have no morals or values. They are just lazy. I am not lazy and I have lots so I must be a better person then they are.

Actually the poor do not exist, it is a figment of the Liberal Media and if they do exist it's because they don't have good morals like I do.

Skeet wrote: "I do not "Hate" the poor weak minded who are crying and whining that the Rich are keeing the Poor that way, just feel sorry that their Minds are so Weak." I don't hate them, I just hold them in contempt and feel free to mock them because I am superior to them. If people are poor it's their fault. I am not poor so I am superior and more moral than they are. Don't you understand, I am doing wonderful so I must be wonderful and those who are not are not as good as I am?

What does this have to do with fear. I fear the people who hold these sort of attitudes because they deny the existence of real problems and blame the victims. People like Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Pearl, etc. feel they are superior to the poor and downtrodden and so really don't need to do anything about their circumstances besides moralizing with them. "So what?", we will bomb them and they will love us. This is delusional thinking and it is dangerous and particularly dangerous if we elect people to power who think like this. The example of a State Government refusing the extension of Unemployment Insurance for people forced out of work by this economy is an excellent example of how this sort of thinking is DANGEROUS. Remember the religious right blaming New Orleans for Katrina because of “immorality”. Recall the religious right blaming Aids on Gay people and their “immorality”. These people are dangerous. These are the people that say they “love Gays” it’s the sin of their sexuality that is sinful. ?????? see what I mean. Dangerous. It’s like the priests who baptized Native Mexican people before killing them. We love them; we baptized them before we killed them so they could be loved by our loving god. Its like Stalin “loving” his country and protecting it from the evil Capitalists. Dangerous.

The true believers in unfettered markets drove our collective car into a very deep ditch and now blame those who are bankrupted believing them to be morally bankrupt.

Iflyfish
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Bajahowodd
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[*] posted on 3-13-2009 at 11:41 PM


Everyone waiting for the rapture, raise your hands.
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Sharksbaja
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 02:07 AM
3 WORDS


Get $!!*%@# over it!



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Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys


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Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 07:07 AM


Flyfish;

You must be a Politian! I have never seen anyone turn anothers words into such.

Are you a Communist?? Do you wish to see the good old USA turned into something like Russia??

Do you think Poor People could all work as executives and build cars for the Rich People.

There are people who work Hard and want to better themselves.

There are people who donot want to work and take care of Themselves.

There are People who only want to do DOPE and anything that meets the standard" If it feels good just do it!

SURVIVAL OF THE FITIST

From the Panhandle of Texas where there are no TENT CITIES POPPING UP ALL OVER.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 07:59 AM


I'm usually not afraid of anything but some of you in this thread scare me to death. I will let you wonder to whom I refer.



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Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 08:41 AM


tIRGERDOG;

I have looked at the sites you sent. I am not impressed wit any truth in their site.

Would you please let me know those Tent City Sites that you have personally been to and have seen with your Eyes.

You might want to try Google Earth and bring up photos if they are large enough.

Houston- The third largest City in the usa does not have any such "Tent Citys popped up All over.

Can you send a photo of the ones nearest to you.

Skeet
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oldlady
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 09:00 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Well said wodd and dog.

Some would posit and have on this site that there is plenty of work for anyone who wants it and if someone is not working then they are somehow morally deficient. They posit that if one is not well to do it is one’s own fault. I personally find this view insulting, arrogant and out of touch with the realities of the ordinary person who has experienced what tigerdog so clearly describes.

No, we posit that when there is work available that some will not do it because they are lazy or they can make more money running drugs or they are content to live off of the fruits of others labors. How many times over the years have we4 heard that the justification for illegal immigration is that these are jobs that Americans don't want to do?"

----------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to some that because they are comfortable they believe that they possess some sort of moral superiority and those who are not doing well are somehow inferior to them. Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" when told that the masses were without bread. That immediately preceded the French Revolution. That is the sort of hubris that has gripped the national consciousness of the USofA since the time of Reagan. We have idolized the rich and ascribed to them superiority and have looked to them as role models. We don't view a Teacher or Peace Corps worker in the same way that we view Donald Trump.
---------
True, we don't view everybody in the same way, have we ever? We have idolized rich whether they be magnates , movie starts or rocks stars, long before Reaan. Some of us even idolize politicians.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are all one health catastrophe away from economic disaster and many of the home foreclosures that are happening are because people cannot pay their medical bills. It would seem to me that the Conservatives who post here actually blame the victim and claim moral superiority because they have means themselves.
------
I think it is important to differentiate victims from perpetrators. It is not easy to do that. Perhaps you are confusing moral superiority with anger. The anger is not because we have means (albeit a whole lot less), it is because we never bought into the materialistc myth of living with debt. Some of us who have already lost a lot are now being asked to ante up more, some of that to bailout not only companies but indivduals who carelessly lived with debt. We are angry about that and we are fearful that while the payment may not come in the form of higher income taxes, we will bear the cost in many other ways, perhaps more dear than money.

------------------------------------------------------------

I recently had a Conservative friend, who was laid off and is having a terrible time finding work, lost his medical coverage and needed medical care. So he went to the ER and waited four hours. He now understands a little of what the reality is for some 50 million people without coverage due to no fault of their own. He now has a large medical bill and no way to pay it. This will affect his credit rating and he now is in the downward spiral that he refused to believe happens to good people every day in the USofA.

There are solutions, but trickle down "voodoo" economics is not one of them.

Some people need simple answers and solutions to problems. They are uncomfortable with the notion that life can be chaotic and unpredictable. True Believers, no matter what the stripe, have a sense of internal security that is built upon their belief system and they live with a great fear that anything that does not reinforce their belief system is DANGEROUS, hence they are actually fear based though they act very self assured.
------
When in human history, from the Code of Hammurabi to the Ten Commandments, the Magna Carta and the Constitution dowe not strive to bring order to chaos in an effort to frame the boundaries of some of the unpredictable ? I would submit that whatever the belief system, most, but of course not all, view as dangerous things that threaten their belief system and may fear those , but that in the absence of such a threat can tolerate, without fear, other belief systems that do not reinforce their own.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice how the terrorist spends his days reciting the Koran, notice how rigid fundamentalists of any stripe always say the same things, over and over, and how they reference themselves as virtuous and posit others as bad, inferior, immoral, Socialist or Communist. Fundamentalists of any stripe are dangerous and to be feared as it is their way and their way only. These folks can be found on both the left and right on the political spectrum, both have very clear answers as to how you SHOULD live.

In times of social unrest and upheaval nations often turn to dictators who offer certainty as a way to address social anxiety (fear without a reference). These people offer simple solutions and often resort to force of violence to subdue the "other". Notice Chavez who has now been named Ruler for Life. Notice how Rush Limbaugh is idolized and lionized. It is hard for the voice of reason to be heard in the context of fear.
-----
Until recently I was hardly aware of Rush Limbaugh, nor was virtually anyone outside of the US. But in speaking of idolizing, regardless of one's party affiliation, was not the worldwide worship of Obama during his campaign not breathtaking? Can anyone remember any politician, even Kennedy, ever being lionized so?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mexico is experiencing social and political unrest and could well turn to a True Believer, Obrador for example, to try to address the anxiety that the Fox/Calderon Presidencies have generated by challenging the status quo and the economic downturn that is having its very real impact on the average person's pocket book.

Just as people seek "pie in the sky when you die" when faced with personal tragedy, times of public distress can lead to a desire for certitude on the part of leaders and this can be dangerous indeed.
--------
It is for this reason that one of the newest mantras, "Never waste a crisis" concerns me. Possibly it betrays the use of fear as a great manipulative force.

Text
Iflyfish

edited for atrocious spelling, poor paragraph construction and run ons.


Iflyfish

edited for atrocious spelling, poor paragraph construction and run ons.

[Edited on 3-13-2009 by Iflyfish]

[Edited on 3-13-2009 by Iflyfish]

[Edited on 3-14-2009 by Iflyfish]




[Edited on 3-14-2009 by oldlady]
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ligui
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 09:12 AM


Boy , fear seems to your favorite subject , maybe it's time to let it go and get on with life . How about some good photo's ?:P

Ligui
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 09:19 AM


Skeet - According to KCRA news this morning, there's a huge tent city in Sacramento. I'm going there today to see what I can do to help. I'll take some photos for you. Kids & dogs can't do for themselves, thank you Skeet!
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 09:39 AM


Good joke david , Good thing the past govt. employees paid all their taxes, or we be in a real mess...........:lol:
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 11:11 AM


Thanks for you good Edit Old Lady
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 11:16 AM
Pi in the Sky


No Worries, mates.

Now that Congress has declared a National "Pi" day, things are sure to improve.

This is what they do best. If we could just confine them to this type of activity, EVERY country would be a lot better off.
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oldlady
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 11:33 AM


You're being circum-spect, go to your room.
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 12:22 PM
Pork Pi


Chastened, I Went to my room, but there's a computer there, too. In fact, the Damned things are all over the place even after going on another wholesale "Toss it out" binge this a.m. throwing away Two computers, 3 (Brand-New) 24x CD-ROMs, 2 Parallel port CD-ROMs, a Parallel-Port Hard Drive, 2 HP Printers and numerous Video cards, Sound Cards and Modems.

Breaks my Heart to throw away good, but obsolete, gear.

It's a good thing that Congress stepped in to consecrate 3.14 as Pi Day. I find there is actually TWO or THREE Pi days. How's that for confusing ?

"Pi Day is observed on March 14, 3/14 being the first three digits of pi. It can also be celebrated on March 4 (when 14% of the month of March has elapsed). Pi Approximation Day is observed on July 22, due to "Pi" being roughly equal to 22/7".
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 12:23 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by oldlady
You're being circum-spect, go to your room.


You're such a funny old lady!!! i am so sick of this thread and i just signed on cause i see this message from u. tell those guys that worrying is a waste of time.:lol:




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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 12:38 PM


It's so nice to have a man around the house...

Telling them anything is probably a waste of time....but I think I fear a world without 'em.
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 01:47 PM


Jesse : You presented avery good Post which as usual drifts of, depending on the Posters.

I say again Thanks to you.

If posters such as Tirgerdog and Iflyfish would post their resimes it woul show the Honest posters their Back grounds and we might be able to have a better discussion.

If some of the Posters would backup their statements with
Facts and not someone else words copied off the Net it would geive them a little more credit.

But, I do not think it will happen as the people in our Culture today want to grow Fear in the minds of the Masses so that they can be better Controlled.

Hang in there Jesse, the good people of this Good Old USA will survive and will come back with a Bang. Of Course some of these Naysayers may get Hungry and have to go to Work.
Would that not be something to see, ********* Working????

Skeet

[Edited on 3-15-2009 by BajaNomad]
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Iflyfish
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 01:58 PM


Originally posted by oldlady

Originally posted by Iflyfish

Some would posit and have on this site that there is plenty of work for anyone who wants it and if someone is not working then they are somehow morally deficient. They posit that if one is not well to do it is one’s own fault. I personally find this view insulting, arrogant and out of touch with the realities of the ordinary person who has experienced what tigerdog so clearly describes.

No, we posit that when there is work available that some will not do it because they are lazy or they can make more money running drugs or they are content to live off of the fruits of others labors. How many times over the years have we4 heard that the justification for illegal immigration is that these are jobs that Americans don't want to do?"
===========================================
You are right, there are people who are lazy, willing to make money off of illegal activities and willing to live off the labor of others i.e. Madoff, greedy CEOs etl al. Those jobs that your refer to are not family wage jobs, they are Minimum Wage Jobs that most could not support a family on in the USofA and this is why people who come from a country where the cost of living is lower would come to another country to take those jobs. The exception however does not prove the rule. Most people who are now unemployed are unemployed BECAUSE there are not enough family wage jobs to go around. Lazyness or lack of morality is not the only reason that people are unemployed.

----------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to some that because they are comfortable they believe that they possess some sort of moral superiority and those who are not doing well are somehow inferior to them. Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" when told that the masses were without bread. That immediately preceded the French Revolution. That is the sort of hubris that has gripped the national consciousness of the USofA since the time of Reagan. We have idolized the rich and ascribed to them superiority and have looked to them as role models. We don't view a Teacher or Peace Corps worker in the same way that we view Donald Trump.
---------
True, we don't view everybody in the same way, have we ever? We have idolized rich whether they be magnates , movie starts or rocks stars, long before Reaan. Some of us even idolize politicians.
==========================================
I agree with you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are all one health catastrophe away from economic disaster and many of the home foreclosures that are happening are because people cannot pay their medical bills. It would seem to me that the Conservatives who post here actually blame the victim and claim moral superiority because they have means themselves.
------
I think it is important to differentiate victims from perpetrators. It is not easy to do that. Perhaps you are confusing moral superiority with anger. The anger is not because we have means (albeit a whole lot less), it is because we never bought into the materialistc myth of living with debt. Some of us who have already lost a lot are now being asked to ante up more, some of that to bailout not only companies but indivduals who carelessly lived with debt. We are angry about that and we are fearful that while the payment may not come in the form of higher income taxes, we will bear the cost in many other ways, perhaps more dear than money.

===========================================I am not confusing legitimate anger for moral superiority. I was responding to Skeet's post. See his last one for amplification of the point I was making. We are all poorer and rightfully angry for the manipulations that have left us all poorer.

------------------------------------------------------------

I recently had a Conservative friend, who was laid off and is having a terrible time finding work, lost his medical coverage and needed medical care. So he went to the ER and waited four hours. He now understands a little of what the reality is for some 50 million people without coverage due to no fault of their own. He now has a large medical bill and no way to pay it. This will affect his credit rating and he now is in the downward spiral that he refused to believe happens to good people every day in the USofA.

There are solutions, but trickle down "voodoo" economics is not one of them.

Some people need simple answers and solutions to problems. They are uncomfortable with the notion that life can be chaotic and unpredictable. True Believers, no matter what the stripe, have a sense of internal security that is built upon their belief system and they live with a great fear that anything that does not reinforce their belief system is DANGEROUS, hence they are actually fear based though they act very self assured.
------
When in human history, from the Code of Hammurabi to the Ten Commandments, the Magna Carta and the Constitution dowe not strive to bring order to chaos in an effort to frame the boundaries of some of the unpredictable ? I would submit that whatever the belief system, most, but of course not all, view as dangerous things that threaten their belief system and may fear those , but that in the absence of such a threat can tolerate, without fear, other belief systems that do not reinforce their own.

===========================================
Exactly. When we perpetuate "WAR on ......." we generate fear in people. How we define our experience generates our emotions. When afraid people do not think as clearly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice how the terrorist spends his days reciting the Koran, notice how rigid fundamentalists of any stripe always say the same things, over and over, and how they reference themselves as virtuous and posit others as bad, inferior, immoral, Socialist or Communist. Fundamentalists of any stripe are dangerous and to be feared as it is their way and their way only. These folks can be found on both the left and right on the political spectrum, both have very clear answers as to how you SHOULD live.

In times of social unrest and upheaval nations often turn to dictators who offer certainty as a way to address social anxiety (fear without a reference). These people offer simple solutions and often resort to force of violence to subdue the "other". Notice Chavez who has now been named Ruler for Life. Notice how Rush Limbaugh is idolized and lionized. It is hard for the voice of reason to be heard in the context of fear.
-----
Until recently I was hardly aware of Rush Limbaugh, nor was virtually anyone outside of the US. But in speaking of idolizing, regardless of one's party affiliation, was not the worldwide worship of Obama during his campaign not breathtaking? Can anyone remember any politician, even Kennedy, ever being lionized so?

===========================================
There is always a risk in idolizing our leaders. The country was ripe for a take over by an authortarian character and we are fortunate we did not get one this time. The USofA was a virtual Dictatorship under the imperial presidency of Chaney/Bush. I fear for Mexico in this regard. Chaos and demoralization can lead populations to select authortarian leaders and this is why it is in the self interest of the ruling class to look our for the interests of the disposessed. Not to do so is done at very great risk.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mexico is experiencing social and political unrest and could well turn to a True Believer, Obrador for example, to try to address the anxiety that the Fox/Calderon Presidencies have generated by challenging the status quo and the economic downturn that is having its very real impact on the average person's pocket book.

Just as people seek "pie in the sky when you die" when faced with personal tragedy, times of public distress can lead to a desire for certitude on the part of leaders and this can be dangerous indeed.
--------
It is for this reason that one of the newest mantras, "Never waste a crisis" concerns me. Possibly it betrays the use of fear as a great manipulative force.

===========================================
Exactly. Well said. Carl Rove was very clear about this as was Chaney. They used the crisis of 9/11 to invade a Sovereign Nation, Iraq, with out provocation. They took a position that "pre-emptive war was the policy of the USofA. They did away with the rule of law by detaining and murdering people. They did away with the rule of law by using illegal wire taps. They did away with the rule of law by engaging in torture. They used signing statements to circumvent the rule of law by taking a position that the President AND his agents were above the rule of law. Ergo we were in a de facto Dictatorship for eight years. Couple this with a failing economy and you indeed have the ground tilled for a dictatorship.

I appreciate your clarity and thoughtful posts.

Iflyfish

edited for atrocious spelling, poor paragraph construction and run ons.
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sourdough
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 02:57 PM


Very well stated! I agree with you completely. I have a new hero.
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Iflyfish
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[*] posted on 3-14-2009 at 03:10 PM


sourdough,

I like oldlady too. However be careful she does warn us appropriatly of hero worship.

Iflyfish
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