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BajaGringo
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There are many restaurants, tourist stops and shops that have them all along Baja. They look as though they have been there for many decades, back
before they became a protected species.
The same can be said for whale bones, etc...
[Edited on 4-18-2009 by BajaGringo]
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by meme
All this Authoritive speaking & I still got no real answer to my question!!
Is it illegal to have an empty turtle shell in your posession? I do not have one myself but I do know someone who recently found one supposedly at
BOLA. |
Yes it is. |
That surprises me.
For years there were turtle shells galore on the beaches here around Loreto. On the far end of Ensenada Blanca there was an isolated beach where the
locals likely cleaned their catch and just disgarded the shells. Folks from Tripui knew of this and many brought them home to Tripui, cleaned them up
and had them adorn their Palapa walls. Also the beaches between Nopolo and Loreto were a good hunting ground for them. Found quite a few, cleaned
them, polished them and used them for presents. Still have a few hanging on the walls in my home here in Nopolo.
Never had an idea I was violating any laws here. Was familiar with the fact that you couldn't bring them into the US. However, many Tripui folks
carted them with them on their track north. Never heard of anyone getting called on this at the line and sure never heard of anyone doing time for
this (true  :? offense.
[Edited on 4-18-2009 by vandenberg] |
"Artícle 55. It is declared that all marine turtle species are protected. It is ilegal to possess, colect, sell or buy turtle meat, skin, shells,
organs, and byproducts. This applies in the Mexican territory and waters."
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JESSE
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I think an old shell in your house shouldnt be a problem, but a new one (even if its cleaned, dried and barnished) could posibly bring trouble.
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Bajahowodd
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For what it's worth, it certainly doesn't appear that your dealing with a cyber-rookie here. Checking out Munoz' website, he takes credit as web
master.
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BajaGringo
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Yes, and it also says that his complete name is:
Rafael Muños Martinez
Anybody want to take a bet that he was born in 1953???
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ramuma53
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My friends, for that matter, at one time I was corossing the border Tijuana San Diego with new boots bought in Tijuana, those were turtle leather; at
the San Ysidro border entrance, Customs confiscated my boots and didn't charged me, but I was afraid to looose my greencard then; happyly I was able
to demostrate that I had just bought the boots in a legal shoe store and I know that that store was closed a few weeks later, so it is no easy thing
to posses, transport, sale or even use sea turtle products.
Actually the law forbids the harrasing, catching, harming, sale and transportation of sea turtles or its products or derivates; if you have an old
shell, it is not a crime as long as you don't transport it, sale it or cross the border with it.
On the other side, Olivia was catched with two fresh LOODY shells from 2 sea turtles, being cooked on her restaurant stove in a big pot, with the two
real fresh heads in the kitchen INSIDE trash container; also she accept that  she was warming it as a favor to some Ensenada families who were inside her restaurant for free while every person who know Olivia must know that she would never do that for free, that is an imposibility, she
always charge for everything, no exception and even her friends know that.
My friends, also note that the hotel has no telephone at this moment, since last boat unlodading on Olivia's Restaurant and the Propesca raid was
after that, so the tip could not have come from the Buenaventura hotel and we know that the only other telephone 15 miles orround is in Olivia's
restaurant, so the tip must have come from her restaurant, maybe one customer or employee or husband of her did it and since she charge for telephone
use, she must know who did the on time calls.
Also, Mark was not there very conveniently and since he is the restaurant co owner, or at least he say that, it is extrange, don't you think.
But anyway, they are known poachers now, they even accept that they had the Sea Turtle in their restaurant for their customers service free or not,
they say free, but that is hard to believe even for her adamant protectors here.
The real question is, Do we condone the actual serving of Sea Turtle in a restaurant today???????
It is not a matter that in the past we like it or not, because I used to like it; not as a tradition, because it was not; they just were selling it
all over Tijuana; it was not like turky tradition, we just were able to get it anyplace; of course in Baja, if you went to an able home, they will
offer the best and that was Sea Turtle, now they offer shrimp the same way, or fish; Sea Turtle was not a tradition, it was the best at that time; now
only the ones who are able to brake the law with impunity do it, being a corrupt governor or politician, but it is like inviting you to be their
associate in crime.
We are not loosing tradition when we are not able to serve Sea Turtle in our homes, we can still make that dish, they call it Cahuamanta; it taste the
same, the flavor is the same except it is made of fish, ray meat and beef' so the tradition can continue without the Sea Turtles participation.
When all over the world the lawmakers in our representation, baned the Sea Turtles from our tables and menus, it was for a reason; the sea turtles
were being hunted to extintion; one way or the other, the Sea Turtles were gone from the tables, also they have become extremely expensive.
So we have not lost a tradition, we have not lost the excuisite dish and we are very willing to see the turtles sweeming in the sea, very alive.
We just need to take a step in to an active position and really protect the remaining sea turtles with our condoning or repudiating the ones that
break that law, being a governor, a politician, a policeman, a restaurant owner or a friend who serve it at home when he invite you. that is the
question for us here ???????????
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Bajahowodd
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Still begs the question as to why he showed up here.
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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I would like you to know I thought it was great to have people writing about the situation and allegations of my wife Olivia and our little
restaurant. Instead of being happy her face twisted and she cried. She does not want to be associated with Munoz. She feels ashamed even to have her
name accompany his. After convincing her that the forum is ok and it is public opinion only, she settled down. I married Olivia over five ago with a
promise to love and protect her. I also told her that of all the women in my life she is the one I would have picked to go up against Munoz. She could
do it if any one else could. As a man and a husband I do not feel good about this. We just had some Mexican friends from Loreto come in to inquire
about Olivia. The discussion turned to turtles and the lady told her about how a turtle will cry when out of the water. Olivia started to cry again.
This should make the monster feel good about what he has accomplished. I can handle almost any situation but when someone attacks my wife, well. We
have dealt with this man for all this time a little more will be worth it.
How will most husbands handle something like this?
I would like to ask our friends to give Oli a word of encouragement. She needs it now.
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BajaGringo
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Rafael - nobody here is disputing the fact that turtle poaching is wrong or illegal. We just find it very interesting how you keep trying to divert
the attention away from the fact that you are not being honest as to who you are and your involvement with the folks charged in this issue. Nobody is
buying it and the more you try to make these folks look bad, the more it is making many of us (who don't know either of the parties involved) start to
wonder about what really went down there and if maybe you were involved somehow.
If you want to help your case, come clean as to who you really are and then maybe we can have an honest discussion about this. Until you do Rafael,
this is just a charade and you are not helping your cause at all...
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JESSE
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If your up to your kness in quick sand, STOP MOVING!!!!
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BajaGringo
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Rafael, just to remove any doubt that you registered from Tijuana and not from down at the hotel as you posted, I have kept a screen capture of your
registration data showing your email address you used to register (and confirmed from) as well as your IP address. I subscribe to a service that
tracks the IP and gives me the region from where it originated. It is not from BCS, but from the Tijuana area.
Come clean and then we can at least have a discussion out in the open. Olivia has posted as herself, not hiding behind someone else, or pretending to
be some "concerned citizen" trying to skew opinion here. She is defending herself which speaks a lot more to me than what you are doing. Show the same
valor and then we can talk. Otherwise this is just all coming across as pure propaganda...
[Edited on 4-18-2009 by BajaGringo]
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ramuma53
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Baja gringo
Still unable to solve that one; if you check in the internet Munoz curriculum vitae, you will notice that he is a Civil Engineer, an attorney at law,
speaks spanish, english and some italian; also he studied Physics, Electromechanical engineering, a lot of computng systems and know several
programing languages; does that sound like a guy who can do that and more ? and of course would not make as many mistakes as the humble of me.
Anyway, just listen to Olivia and Mark, the interested parties, they KNOW ME, they think I am his bodyguard, but are unable to explain how come the
bodyguard is enjoying the Baja beaches while the principal in in New York; doesent sound like the bodyguards I see in the movies at least.
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Marla Daily
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Those of us many nomads following this post are still waiting for the
photos, as previously requested several times.
Why are you avoiding this issue? Step up to the plate and show your face
if all is as you say.
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Bajahowodd
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Wow. A true Renaissance man. Or an overblown case of man love.
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BajaGringo
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I rest my case.
I believe it is quite obvious who this guy is but you guys can decide for yourselves...
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Cypress
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ramua53, THIS WHOLE ISSUE IS GETTING CUMBERSOME. You're pee-peeing in the wind! Olivia and Mark are good people! You're just a cyber voice with an
agenda, doubt if it's the love of turtles that motivates you. Imagine it's the love of $$$, but you're intitled to your opinions.
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Sharksbaja
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Ok, you are an intellectual bodyguard. Very common in Baja
Is this the bodyguard?:
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
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Maybe it's time to stop posting on this thread. Then see if the poseur shows up elsewhere.
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Howard
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Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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I think I have it now.
Anthony Quinn as the bad guy
Carroll O”Conner as the alleged bad guy
The guy from the TV series, Vegas, Former Marine Danny McCoy ,Josh Duhamel
Betty Davis as Olivia (just kidding as I happen to like Olivia, or at least before this incident)
I am looking for financial backers. We will use look a likes for the movie except for Danny (Josh)
We can use Bay of Conception to shoot from, oh wait, it's fenced off.
Anyway, the soap opera continues.
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
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Hey you folks put your pictures up here so we can see who the players are. GEEESH!
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