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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
Posts: 1035
Registered: 9-6-2006
Location: Back in CA
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I have a question for the nuke masters......
I drive by nuke plants occasionally and those things put out a lot of steam! Is it saltwater that feeds those turbines? Is there any reason that
steam couldn't be condensed into drinking water?
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
I have a question for the nuke masters......
I drive by nuke plants occasionally and those things put out a lot of steam! Is it saltwater that feeds those turbines? Is there any reason that
steam couldn't be condensed into drinking water? |
If on the ocean, then it is sea water used for the cooling... If on a lake, then it is lake water.
The sea/ lake water never gets close to the radiation... there is a middle cooling liquid between the two.
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cantinflas
Junior Nomad
Posts: 75
Registered: 2-4-2009
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Geez and to think I used to like reading this forum. Time to look for another.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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The reactors transfer heat produced by fission in their fuel cells to the primary coolant system which carries the heat to steam generators which
transfer the heat across thousands of heating tubes to the secondary system, producing steam to run the steam turbine generators. The turbine steam
exhaust is condensed back to liquid form in large condensers cooled by sea water at San Onofre and other reactors located on the ocean front. The sea
water does not come in direct contact with any primary fuel cells. It can be used for desalination as in this design:
YMMV
[Edited on 6-9-2009 by BajaGringo]
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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
Posts: 1035
Registered: 9-6-2006
Location: Back in CA
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Thanks, BG. Sounds like the solution to a couple of pressing Baja problems.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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BajaGringo, It's much to simple and economical. The dummies in power can't wrap their wittle brains awound it.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The sea/ lake water never gets close to the radiation... there is a middle cooling liquid between the two. |
except when homer nods off to sleep, and we get chernobyls and 3MIs.
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
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Registered: 10-14-2006
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In Feb of 2006 we visited San Carlos and Lopez Mateos. There was a large fish processing plant running 24/7 and an attempt at a Marine Laboratory. I
do not recall seeing any large generating station. Nice part of Baja! ++C++
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wiltonh
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If you use Google Earth and try and look this area up, you will see some small blue squares. These are pictures and one is of the plant.
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3980966
This looks like a power plant to me.
Wilton
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wiltonh
Nomad
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Here is another picture.
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/19784670
Maybe BajaGringo can identify its fuel source?
Wilton
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Thanks ZJ, but do you know why gnukid freaked-out at me? Oh well... maybe some people are getting really nervous about the changes going on and they
are jumpy? |
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Do any of you remember ESL/ El Surfo Loco/ Chopy Chavez/ Cornell Crawford???
He spoke up like gnukid about the crooked cops, government officials, Castro family at cabo Pulmo squating on his land...
He is dead now. |
DK Your snide comments and insults are tiresome.
Do your yourself and everyone else a favor and find out why you insist on backhanded threats and insults. Perhaps it would something you could discuss
offline with your wife who I am sure is familiar with this.
You could ask yourself why your comment that a poster mentioning Obama would receive "Hell" is unsettling and inappropriate following your prior
insinuations that people who speak up would die.
Its seems a little weird DK. Instead of denying it, take it as feedback that your comments may be perceived as insinuating a threat.
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by gnukid]
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David K
Honored Nomad
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That quote about Chopy is NOT in this thread... What has that got to do with you talking about Obama here (in this thread) and my commenting about
it????
Keep quotes in the threads they came from, pulling them from another thread from days or weeks ago is what is known as "out of context", isn't it?
Show me any snide comments or insults to you. I will apologize.
The comment about Chopy was to HELP you sir, as you were accusing officials of wrong doing, the same thing that Chopy did... Post your part that I was
responding to, not just my reply (that was made in an effort to save you from harm), sir.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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DK Take a look at yourself. These are your statements. yes across threads, it sounds weird.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Location: San Diego County
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Right... do you understand now that I was looking out for you in that other thread?
You are new here and didn't know Chopy... I was telling you what happpened to him so it wouldn't happen to you, friend... That's all.
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BajaGringo
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I took a look at the power plant in the google earth link and it is definitely not nuclear as it doesn't have the containment, support or cooling
capabilities needed. You can see large storage tanks and a tall exhaust stack which makes it appear to be fired by a petroleum based fuel.
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by BajaGringo]
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wiltonh
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Thanks for checking the pictures BajaGringo. That would be my guess also.
One of the people I talked to on the beach last year told me that a plant of this size needed to be located near a port where oil could be delivered
by boat or barge.
The next question that we discussed last winter was, is this the only plant for BCS? Does Lapaz run from this plant?
That seems like quite a distance to send all the power that would be needed for a city the size of Lapaz.
Wilton
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ElFaro
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Registered: 9-16-2007
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I would like to clear up some issues and misconceptions regarding Hydroelectric, Wind, Solar, nuclear, geothermal, fossil power and how it relates to
this Baja News announcement.
Nuclear - Baja will not likely see a nuclear plant in the forseeable future. Most nuclear units are built in the 1000-1500 megawatt size to be cost
effective. These type of units are "base loaded" meaning they are designed to run at their max output and stay there. Baja's nothern electrical load
is such that one nuclear unit would serve 75-80% of the load. If the unit went down there would not be sufficient backup to makeup the loss very
quickly. Blackouts would almost be certain.
Solar (photovoltaic) - Too expensive for any large-scale usage. A "passive" source of electricity...on a small scale those who can afford it to run
120V appliances via batteries and still have the local utility gird as backup will do well.
Solar (thermal) - Again a "passive" source of electricity and expensive on a large scale but could be used by CFE to offset fossil fuel generated
electricity during the day.
Hydroelectric - The Baja News announcement of a hydroelectric plant...I'll bet my bottom dollar this is a "Pump Storage" project. The use of the word
"hydroelectric" is probably for public consumption. A pump storage plant basically pumps water from a lower resevoir to an upper resevoir at night
when the load is low and energy prices are cheaper to run the pumps. They then release water to generate electricity during times of the day "to
shave the peak load" when purchased or generated electricity is expensive.
Geothermal - CFE pretty much tapped out the Mexicali geothermal fields back in the early 1970's. The reason they don't just keep drilling more holes
into the earth is due to the quality of the geothermal brine. CFE has been blessed with very low Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) in their current core
wells. Additional core samples revealed the same problem we had in the Imperial Valley. Namely very high TDS in the geothermal brine. This results
in rapid buildup of solids in the pipes and well tubes resulting in more drilling. The costs simply outweigh any benefits of expansion. So the
Mexicali geothermal wells are currently maxed out as is cost effective.
Wind - this form of electric generation on a large scale can come in many designs. Remember...just because you see the blades spinning doesn't
necessarily mean they are generating electricity. And not all wind farms are connected to the utility grid. Some of these wind machines are DC-AC
generators and others are induction machines. Some are "fixed pitch blade" and others are "variable pitch" blade. Most of these wind farms are
"passive" generation...meaning like solar they cannot control anything on the utility grid such as frequency, voltage, or respond to rapid changes in
load or generation.
The wind farm and solar array at San Juanico doesn't look big enough to be connected to the local utility grid. Judging from the picture the wing
gens look about 1kW ea. X 12 = 12kW and the solar array about 10kW so about 22kW total assuming all wind gens at top output and max solar output. So
figure 50-75% load factor and enough for the local buildings there.
The wind farm along I8 in San Diego is an "induction" wind generator. These types rely on the utility grid for field excitation and frequency
reference to tie into the grid. They cannot sychronize themselves onto the utility grid. If the line to the grid goes down the wind farm shuts down
also.
Fossil Fuel (FF) - Two things you have to keep in mind...utility level electricity cannot be stored and people want their electricity from the
utility grid "on demand", at the quantity they desire at that instant, and of a certain minimum quality. For these reasons and some other important
ones...fossil fueled generation cannot be replaced by alternative energy sources. Take solar for example...it obviously doesn't do you much good at
night so FF gen has to make up the difference. You can have a 500 megawatt wind farm but if the wind suddenly stops...guess what...FF gen has to step
in to cover the load. Most hydroelectric, nuclear, solar, wind, and geothermal generation sources are "base loaded" meaning they are set to a fixed
output and do not fluxuate. Only the FF gens are designed to handle fluxuations in frequency, voltage, gen, and loads. Also FF gen fuels (Diesel,
gas, oil) are more transportable than the other above mentioned fuel sources(e.g. hydro, nuclear, geo, solar, wind).
Steam Plumes - The small steam plumes you see rising from power plants is the purging of impurities from the steam used to drive the steam turbine
blades. That steam has to be absolutely pure or it is like small rocks hitting the turbine blades and causing damage over time. The big plumes of
steam usually occur at startup or shutdown of a gen unit. The steam and water has to be kept moving through the boiler and heating tubes or there
will be damage. Also impurities have to be purged from the system at startup.
Cooling - Power Plants will never use lake water for cooling purposes in the generation process. Remember...power plants are just big heat
exchangers. The lake would absorb the heat from the power plant and then would have no way to get rid of the heat except for a small amount given off
at the lake surface. The lake would soon reach the heat level of the plant fluid your trying to cool. Most power plants away from the ocean use
"Cooling Towers" to dissipate heat in the generating process. Air is moved through the tower of falling water to cool it before it returns to the
plant.
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SKIDS
Junior Nomad
Posts: 48
Registered: 3-10-2009
Location: Jamul Ca.
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Gnukid and Davidk both get time out. Go to your rooms and think about it !
P.S. OBAMA SUCKS !!
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