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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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Sounds to me like another corrupt money harvesting scheme by PROFEPA. I'll take my chances.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18058
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
When I hear of these policies being implemented in Baja, it truly tests the "feeling the love" of Baja.
This is worst than any permit process I have come across in the US. If a turist cannot get a permit when they arrive at a "Biosphere" location and
receive it the same day, then it is essentially shutting down the attraction of going for most.
Ken |
should be like a US national forest or national park. you buy your pass at a convenient entry gate on the day you arrive.
no govt does something as stupid as requiring advance permit purchase by mail unless they got some motive for making it difficult for tourists to
visit. if they require you to write in advance to ask for a permit, then I am certain such is being done on behalf of local boat operators who think
they have an angle to pump up business.
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Cypress
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No problem with having to buy a Biosphere permit. The proceeds will probably, I hope, be spent making improvements, catching poachers, clean-ups, etc.
Just make them easy to purchase and available without having to go here and there looking for them.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
I was just informed by the biosphere reserve secretary that all private boats that put in within the Biosphere reserve from GN-Abreojos MUST have a
Reserve permit. Foreigners who are residents of the Reserve are exempt if they have their FM3 address in the reserve and are just fishing once in
awhile for thier dinner... this is for mexicans and gringos alike. So tourists coming to sportfish in their own boat need the permit.
So this means that you must solicit a permit between April and the end of September through the Biosphere reserve office or website with documents
attached...copy of your passport, vessel registration, insurance policy, description of where you will be fishing or sightseeing, and the payment.
this gets sent to La Paz for approval and is supposed to take 10 days. You also need the daily bracelet permit or passport for each person on board.
So any visiting vessel needs the permit.
You can contact the Reserve secretary Marisol at 615-157-1777 or check the website for the permit application. It can be done online.
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where is the website?? got a link???????????
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Point counter Point
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Salvavida...fishing regs say everyone in the boat needs a license...fishing or not. We now know that the kayak needs a license too...but i wouldnt
worry about the kids swimming....as I mentioned...the lines arent drawn in the sand yet...things are rather vague...and they will use their criteria
to decide when and where to apply the regs. It started with the whale watching lagoons, now is spreading to sportsfishing. |
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
the bracelet is just proof of the permit...the bracelet idea is so that one couldnt just pass over the permit to someone else...single use daily
permit kind of thing.
I understand what you are getting at Gnukid and agree to a point....but living in mexico on a mexican wage is at best...marginal...permits, taxes,
high operating costs makes it difficult to break even...so to risk our livliehood by not conforming to state and federal regulations is not possible
at this time.
All I can do is try to make things easier, clearer so they make more sense. |
To be clear, I am a participant in the program and support the intended effort I do not however support the forced discriminatory polices being
outlined in this new arrangement nor do I believe they are legal except as voluntary action.
It has been well established that Man and the Biosphere and World Heritage designations convey no jurisdiction and affect no sovereignty for
designated spaces. Nor does designation convey jurisdiction to any other agency, this has been addressed previously, which is why I asked YOU to
demonstrate under what authority YOU felt these actions were supported. You provided none. This has been demonstrated around the world as most
prescient nations are adamant that UNESCO may not restrict access to by race, regional affiliation or economics to any person.
Biosphere Fact Sheet
UNESCO has no jurisdiction nor ability to command jurisdiction on any other group. Consider the importance of these issues to your independence,
freedom and sovereignty. Each person must consider their role in protecting access to Biosphere and Heritage sites for all people.
Shari, since you are driving this message and support it, how would you respond if Marisol called you and said, from now on these policies only affect
women with native indian blood, would you support it? Would you resist?
I wonder when you consider the actions and your involvement, what is the limit to your support to restrict access to individuals in your community
where you are in fact a thought leader? When would you say this is wrong without jurisdiction based entirely on race, when they target, only certain
foreigners, or only when the person they target is you?
I support conservation and access, though I can not support restrictions to access/enter a space previously open space or open ocean based on race or
regional affiliation, nor can I imagine that you would do so either? Especially when these actions are specifically denied based in National and
International law?
So, please rethink your role in supporting mandatory BioSphere bracelets based on race and regional affiliation or use. Promote open access for all
people and equality for all races. |
Your arguments have merit, however... your shooting the messenger
The conditions imposed may stink, however to live with a lot of people, there are always going to be "more" conditions that “stink” placed on us
HUMANS ... "always have, always will"... (always liked that line from movie Platoon)
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
No problem with having to buy a Biosphere permit. The proceeds will probably, I hope, be spent making improvements, catching poachers, clean-ups, etc.
Just make them easy to purchase and available without having to go here and there looking for them. |
I completely agree, Cypress, but do you have to be so damned logical 
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jls
Junior Nomad
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Registered: 4-9-2007
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At least some, World Heritage sites do have restrictions. Try to go visit the Burgess Shale in YoHo National Park without a paid guide?
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 18058
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jls
At least some, World Heritage sites do have restrictions. Try to go visit the Burgess Shale in YoHo National Park without a paid guide?
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well, maybe the need for guides at burgess shale is to prevent people from looting? i would love to get fossils from burgess shale -- can i dig some
if i visit there?
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Santiago
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Registered: 8-27-2003
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Shari: Does this also include Bahia Tortugas? I assume so.
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salvavida
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Thanks Shari,
Looks like it will be 966 pesos per 7 days for three people to utilize the area beaches for recreation. Camping fees, fishing licenses, and boat
permit extra. Or, 780 pesos per year on the annual permit. I'm all for supporting resource management and hope these fees make it to the correct
enforcement agency intact. Might see you in October.
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jls
Junior Nomad
Posts: 46
Registered: 4-9-2007
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mtgoat666...trying to take fossils from Burgess Shale would be like trying to steal the Hope diamond from the Smithsonian only less politically
correct. It is an absolutely fabulous place to visit though...you can touch but no take.
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Barry A.
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Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
When I hear of these policies being implemented in Baja, it truly tests the "feeling the love" of Baja.
This is worst than any permit process I have come across in the US. If a turist cannot get a permit when they arrive at a "Biosphere" location and
receive it the same day, then it is essentially shutting down the attraction of going for most.
Ken |
should be like a US national forest or national park. you buy your pass at a convenient entry gate on the day you arrive.
no govt does something as stupid as requiring advance permit purchase by mail unless they got some motive for making it difficult for tourists to
visit. if they require you to write in advance to ask for a permit, then I am certain such is being done on behalf of local boat operators who think
they have an angle to pump up business. |
I was required to apply for 30 days + early, and pay for ($30), a permit to visit "the Maze" in Canyonlands Natl Park last summer with no guarantee
that I could actually enter the Park until I got there, and no refunds. After driving over 1000 miles from California and arriving at the Ranger
Station, we were told that we could not enter the Park as they were "working on the road", and there would be no refund of my $30-----------this after
driving over 70 miles on dirt roads to get to the Ranger station-----------
By your logic, somebody must have "gotten to the officials" for this to happen??????
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?????
Barry
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jls
Junior Nomad
Posts: 46
Registered: 4-9-2007
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It seems like the discrimination is only toward tourist of whatever religion, race, ethnic background, or social group? as it is the world over.
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Russ
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Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Shari, I think you are right to focus one issue in particular. I appreciate you endeavor. Access to purchasing a permit is a huge step. All the
written words that are suppose to address the reasons for and the "what fores" aren't as important to me right now as the "how to". My next concern
would be that the money collected actually went into the project. Or a reasonable facsimile of an accounting record of program expenditures. I've
thought up about a dozen ways of providing a means\service to collect fees and provide info about the biosphere project so I assume it could be done
without my input. Good luck!
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
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Registered: 8-9-2009
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Well said
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13043
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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THIS JUST IN...HOT OFF THE TELEPHONE...with the Reserve marisol....they had an emergency meeting today and I was able to voice some comments and pass
on the comments made by interested parties. I also asked lots of questions and the result is that I have been advised that the personal permits are
now "under revision" and are being legally investigated. We will be advised shortly when it is all sorted out and desicions have been made on who and
who doesnt need a permit to embark on the ocean in the Reserve....so stay tuned. I am going to send a letter to La Paz outlining the concerns and
issues with this policy in hopes of having an effect on the outcome. I mentioned that if permits were needed, they should be made easier to obtain on
site.
I did get the green light for people who just want to paddle around in their kayak ...they dont need the permit...sounds like the issue is
fishing....extracting a resource in the reserve...although you will need your bracelet for recreational activities.
ON the racial issue...these permits/laws are for everyone of every race and color...not just gringo tourists....mexicanos as well...so they arent
discriminating.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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As much as I love fishing in Asuncion during fall there are many other places to fish that are not inside the Biosphere.
If I thought my money was doing something to help the fishery I wouldn't mind but I don't have any faith in the Biophere. It's just a new scam to
collect money.
I will probably fish other places now.
I love Mag Bay!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Awesome Shari!
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msteve1014
Senior Nomad
Posts: 947
Registered: 12-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
As much as I love fishing in Asuncion during fall there are many other places to fish that are not inside the Biosphere.
If I thought my money was doing something to help the fishery I wouldn't mind but I don't have any faith in the Biophere. It's just a new scam to
collect money.
I will probably fish other places now.
I love Mag Bay! |
If your not bringing your boat down (in your plane), it's still only the 5 bucks a day extra. Or is it the principle of the thing.
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Geo_Skip
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Registered: 5-15-2009
Location: Alta California and......../
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Shari,
Thanks for looking into these evolving regulations. It's getting pretty complex with fishing license, daily use and now boat/watercraft permits.
Obviously too soon to explore whether float tubes and surfboards (when used for fishing) will require a permit too. Still, we pay lot's of fees for
recreational use of many "Public Lands" and may not have the special (sea life and other) resources what help make Asuncion so special.
As for politics and philosophy. There is a time and place for them, IMHO, that is in the streets of Berkeley (or SF or Sacramento) I'll be there,
but vacations and other nations, I go there for enjoyment, unpolluted by talk radio fanaticism. That's one of the other ways Asuncion is special.
Keep up the good work, your efforts make our visits easier and more enjoyable.
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