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BAnn
Newbie
Posts: 24
Registered: 3-7-2009
Location: Silver City NM-San Felipe South Campos
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Mood: Sunny
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We are not talking about the states. We are talking about Mexico. Do we plan on leaving when our 5 year lease is up NO!NO! We plan on staying here. We
hope to get another 5 year lease. I was just saying that if there was a problem we could move our fithwheel easier then some one who has a house. I
think the people who are having problems with their leases should put up as much of a fight as they can. I know some have been here a long time and it
is simply not fair to say-- well its Mexico and that is the way it is. We all want our place in the sun with out any worries about getting kicked out.
With the economy we have today to double and triple the price on leases is ridiculous.
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
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A lease is a lease is a lease. It is normal for a landlord to change their mind about a lease anywhere in the world. And thinking that $800 a year is
too much rent is just plain nuts. You can't dry camp in a tent in the US for that, much less at the beach.
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2396
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
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more about this on the san felipe net
http://www.sanfelipe.com.mx/news/index.html
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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I agree with norte and Don Julio. Just because its Mexico doesn't mean that a lease is forever. If the lease was for 10 years (or 5 or whatever) then
at the end of that period its time to renegotiate or move.
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
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One of the problems that I have seen here over the years is the thinking "If it is slow, raise the price to make up the difference". Doesnt make any
sense but I have seen it across all businesses. Shoot even an American developer just raised his lot prices from $20,000 to $30,000 - 35,000 after
having no sales. Don't know what they are thinking.
Unfortunately we can't explain to the owners of the campos that their real estate has gone way down in value. And reality is the road has been paved
to those campos for a long time. Electricity and services aren't coming anytime soon and it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars just to do
subdivision plans and get permits and several million to put in utilities. They can't pay that so what are they going to do?
Campos that were $600,000 - 800,000 in 2006 are selling for $150,000 - $300,000.
When all the sh#& that is about to hit the fan here, hits the fan, real estate values will be half of what they currently are because you combine
that with all the other bad press and we're done. San Felipe is already a ghost town.
It is headed back to sleepy fishing village status which is ok with a lot of people. If you know Mexican people here that are "really good" friends,
ask them what the general sentiment is towards the Americans. They will tell you that a lot of the local people resent the Americans coming here,
buying up all the best property, driving up the costs of everything and coming and going as they please. Thats just how a lot of them feel. Not all of
course.
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dzrtracer
Newbie
Posts: 10
Registered: 1-14-2010
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We had been nomads of baja since 1980, but tired of dragging a trailer and driving the motorhome we found a south campo we liked and bought a house
about 4 years ago and lease the land. Before we bought the house we arranged a meeting with the dad and most of the family and they were very
forthright in telling us leases had not be increased in many years and they would be going up.
The father was one of the old time land owners and cut deals according to money needs or vehicle or equipment needs. Sadly he died a year after we
came in, the family who is all well educated and fantastic people have gone through the who is going to run what and that seems to have settled.
Where the problems and complaints started was when the old timers in the camp had to bring their lease rates up to what all new comers were paying at
renewal time without special deals. I don't have a lot of money but I never thought they were asking to much for such a beautiful location, (I should
mention we pay quite a bit more than the amounts posted in other comments). They are wanting to run it as a family business that has a future for
their kids and to do this they have to budget for the year with a goal to have a standard lease rate per lot without having to keep track of "special
deals".
On the topic of increasing leases in a down economy they are very aware of the US/Mexico economies as such they know you can't charge more when there
is less money available, and it isn't going to improve either side of the boarder for quite some time. And without tourism house aren't selling so
they are not even getting the sales fees.
We did as much homework as possible, new that 10 years lease was max, had our FM-3's to sign the lease (we know of someone that won a court case with
their lease and without FM-3 judge would never have even heard them), copies of lease in both spanish and english and they are registered in Ensenada.
As many have said if it comes down to it you have to be able to walk away witout hard ship, it is a third world country and things can and do change
but we respect our landlords, they have been good about sharing information about their financial struggles, along with future goals for the campo.
Not to mention I have met some of the most wonderful and generous people south of the border.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thanks dzrtracer and welcome to Nomad!
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NandLinbaja
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 1-16-2010
Location: San Diego
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We also have a home in the South Campos. It seems in reading many of the posts here, people want to point fingers at each other and point out how we
should have known better than to invest down here. That's fine but I think you do a disservice to the decent Mexicans down here if you just accept
the assumption that they are all corrupt. We came down when a handshake was a man's word and it meant everything. The campo owner who is kicking
people out of his camp is not thinking of the big picture here. No one will be willing to buy into his camp now and he is cutting off the income via
lease payments that he was getting. Even though most of us are not having the same problem, we do worry about the precedent this is setting.
We have gotten to know many of the merchants in town and they are really hurting because of the general bad press (drugs, killings, etc). Now this
action by a few campo owners is also keeping Americans away. These people have become dependant on the US dollar so THAT is the bigger picture we are
looking at.
We have a sizable investment in our home (we are full timers) and of course would not like to lose it. We are not whining however and will stay and
enjoy for as long as we can. We are optimistic that this will pass and hopefully we can ride it out. Having said all that....I don't think it wrong
for us to expect decent behavior out of the Mexican people.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Many people bought on a hand shake..... but now the mighty dollar, free enterprise, greed take over. Do you know how many gringos tell these people
they are crazy for leasing at $500 per year. and believe me.... there are people ready to take your place.... besides al the BS on the internet.
quote]Originally posted by NandLinbaja
We also have a home in the South Campos. It seems in reading many of the posts here, people want to point fingers at each other and point out how we
should have known better than to invest down here. That's fine but I think you do a disservice to the decent Mexicans down here if you just accept
the assumption that they are all corrupt. We came down when a handshake was a man's word and it meant everything. The campo owner who is kicking
people out of his camp is not thinking of the big picture here. No one will be willing to buy into his camp now and he is cutting off the income via
lease payments that he was getting. Even though most of us are not having the same problem, we do worry about the precedent this is setting.
We have gotten to know many of the merchants in town and they are really hurting because of the general bad press (drugs, killings, etc). Now this
action by a few campo owners is also keeping Americans away. These people have become dependant on the US dollar so THAT is the bigger picture we are
looking at.
We have a sizable investment in our home (we are full timers) and of course would not like to lose it. We are not whining however and will stay and
enjoy for as long as we can. We are optimistic that this will pass and hopefully we can ride it out. Having said all that....I don't think it wrong
for us to expect decent behavior out of the Mexican people. |
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baja_NJ
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 1-21-2010
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the BIG Picture of problems
| Quote: | Originally posted by desertcpl
this was posted today on the san felipe net
does any one here have any more info on what is going on
"I just want to know why no one, I mean no one, will write about what is going on with the Americans in the South Campos. We are losing our homes,
they are pressuring us to pay back taxes, build unwanted sea walls, doubling our rent, sign contracts that are more comical than anything else. Your
web page says NEWS, the best you can do is about women’s underwear????? What the heck, do you write about the news or not! I think it’s important that
we get the msg out as to what is really going on, everyone wants Americans to come back to Mexico, why, when we are being thrown out of our homes,
with no help from the Mexican Gov. what a joke, the only ones making money is the landlords....... and us Americans once again being screwed. I’m not
scared, what do I have to lose, keep an eye on the San Diego Union Tribune, the letter is written, maybe they will print it. This is ridiculous, my
landlord has given me the option to pay his 500,000.00 debt back taxes to the Mexican Gov. or he will give me x amount of months to sell my house, or
it becomes his, oh did I mention that he has to approve the sales price, what is going on here. I have no way out. This is going to get real ugly real
fast, I would appreciate any help or ideas of what to do, if I’m better off walking away say so, I’m tired, and about as sad as I can be. Sorry to be
so critical, but the only news we get is from you guys and the Gringo Gazette, neither of you guys are performing." |
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baja_NJ
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 1-21-2010
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• Mexican landlords have been destroying our property.
• Evicting homeowners to take possession of their houses.
• Outright extorting funds from us to pay their taxes, however, they do not pay those taxes.
• Downright bribing Mexico judicial officials to rule against us in unfounded lawsuits.
• Many landlords do not allow services to come into the camps (propane, water, solar, etc.) unless they are paid shakedown funds.
• Threats and confrontations are the norm. Bully tactics, intimidation and serious coercion occur constantly. We all fear that these landlords will
destroy our homes and property. Significant break-ins and theft have occurred. The landlords did nothing to prevent the theft and the landlords
knew when the camp would be EMPTY... coinsidence?
• Illegally raised rent for land lots by demanding more money even though the lot price is more than fair and was previously agreed upon by both
parties.
• Refused to negotiate written leases and many landlords will not supply proper ID for us to renew our FM3 documents. Landlords dont want written
leases because they are then liable to pay their mexico taxes!
• Many of us have owned our homes for over 10 years and spent significant dollars to increase the well-being of the community! As tourists we greatly
contribute charity to the San Felipe area, this fact cannot be overstated. The area’s dire poverty is very bad and getting worse.
Greed, corruption, bribery and extortion in the South Campos !
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baja_NJ
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 1-21-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
A lease is a lease is a lease. It is normal for a landlord to change their mind about a lease anywhere in the world. And thinking that $800 a year is
too much rent is just plain nuts. You can't dry camp in a tent in the US for that, much less at the beach. |
That is the POINT - Baja is NOT the USA! Landowners making more than 40k a year (TAX FREE) collectively on us to lease their land for our homes and
also to improve the entire area is a SWEET deal for mexicans!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Sounds like there are south campos owners who have no long term vision and there will be deserted ruins soiling the once empty coastline... too bad.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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sounds like you need to move North where the ocean front leases are fair.
| Quote: | Originally posted by baja_NJ
| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
A lease is a lease is a lease. It is normal for a landlord to change their mind about a lease anywhere in the world. And thinking that $800 a year is
too much rent is just plain nuts. You can't dry camp in a tent in the US for that, much less at the beach. |
That is the POINT - Baja is NOT the USA! Landowners making more than 40k a year (TAX FREE) collectively on us to lease their land for our homes and
also to improve the entire area is a SWEET deal for mexicans! |
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baja829
Nomad
Posts: 167
Registered: 2-24-2006
Location: South Campos, San Felipe, BN
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Mood: BAJA HAPPY
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I'm weighing in on this lease problem in the South Campos a little late, but I just became aware of the original comments on The Net in San Felipe
but I'd like to add my two cents for what it's worth.
We live in the So. Campos. We have a decent owner, who has always been fair. We are probably paying the lowest rental fees at this time -- we
started at $350 a lot, 22 yrs. ago. We are now paying $800. We've had no problems with contracts, big increases, etc. We have treated our owner
reasonable and with respect and he has treated us accordingly.
We are well aware of most of the problems referred to in prior writings. Some of it is very true, and much of it is by word of mouth and grossly
exaggerated. We are disappointed by anyone's Mexico retirement dreams being altered in any way, similar to those who no longer have the retirement
dream in the U.S. due to the economy, loss of jobs, etc., that all of us here have been able to enjoy for so long.
There are places where rents have been doubled. In the two campos I'm aware of, the original owners passed away and the children of those owners are
fighting among themselves and with the renters. I do believe, coming from a Probate background, that is not uncommon, anywhere in the world. How it
turns out in the end, no one knows at this point. I'm not saying it's right, it isn't, but it happens in the U.S. as well.
Some of those moved out of their houses without payment, were moved out by Court Order. None of us know the whole story there -- that too happens in
the U.S. With regard to the person who commented on no one leases land and builds buildings on someone else's property in the U.S. -- check out
shopping centers, although that's commercial and expected, but most of all, check out the Coachella Valley, which is half owned by at least 4
different Native American tribes -- The City Fathers were ordered by the Feds, way back when to return some of the land back to the Native Americans,
as happened across the U.S. The Coachella Valley City Fathers, in their great wisdom, decided to dole out the land in checkerboard fashion. 1
section (360 acres) private, 1 section Native American -- thinking it would keep them from ever having a majority ownership of a large section of land
anywhere in the Valley. Well, one-half of all those million dollar homes throughout Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Rancho Mirage, Indian Wells, etc. are
built on "fee" land, which means they leased their property from the Native Americans and have been paying their leases forever and will do so
forever. I don't know how their contracts read, and certainly, it has been a much more positive experience in the U.S. than Mexico, but it does exist
in the U.S. in other parts of the world as well.
I leased a lot in Puerto Penasco in 1963, it had a mobile - I moved it off, built a house on the rocky beach. My rent started at $15 per month, it
ended at $45 a month, when I sold it, at a rather nice profit, in 1985. Still, no problems, except when the Feds sent us a letter and asked us to
send them the rent payments for 2 yrs., to pay the "owners" back taxes. After 2 years, we received another letter --- taxes all paid, send your rent
to the owners again. No problem ever.
The economy is so very bad in the U.S. and it's twice as bad in Mexico -- many people here are desperate and others are just greedy. For those
foreigners who are so very unhappy here, they need to look elsewhere, where things may be better. I know that may not be financially feasible for
all, but anger, nastiness, and rumors are turning into hatred and none of us moved down here to have that kind of relationship, with neighbors, owners
or anyone anywhere. "Getting even" isn't an option here that does anyone any good.
In closing, for those still considering retirement in Mexico, there are good places, even in the So. Campos, good owners, and pleasant times to be
had. For those who are so unhappy here, I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better, whether or not one has earned the treatment being doled
out in some of the Campos. Maybe this isn't the place to be. (signed) A contented leaseholder!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thanks 829... Was good to see you again at Chelo's over New Year's weekend (we were with Rob & Connie for breakfast).
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18368
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by baja829
With regard to the person who commented on no one leases land and builds buildings on someone else's property in the U.S. -- check out shopping
centers, although that's commercial and expected, but most of all, check out the Coachella Valley, |
What about Irvine CA? Isn't much of the development on the old Irvine Ranch land on 99 yr leases?
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Did you know...
| Quote: | Originally posted by baja_NJ
That is the POINT - Baja is NOT the USA! Landowners making more than 40k a year (TAX FREE) collectively on us to lease their land for our homes and
also to improve the entire area is a SWEET deal for mexicans! |
That Mexico has an agency similar to the IRS that considers unreported income to be a criminal act...and would love to hear
from you? 
Amazing...but true. 
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Mexicali_Kid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 45
Registered: 7-15-2008
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BAnn
There is... a problem in some of the campos. The author of the above post is right. Hope things get settled soon. Some people are really in a bad
situation. To many greedy people in the world! But there are some good campos. |
Where do we start? Did you know that the landlord is the one who owns the land? Would you do $50K in improvements on a house you rented in the
States? I don't think so.
So why do people think they can do these crazy things in Mexico? If you must live here, rent a house or buy some land, but never lease land in a camp
and build. It is a Rx for loosing your investment.
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baja_NJ
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 1-21-2010
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Originally posted by BAnn
There is... a problem in some of the campos. The author of the above post is right. Hope things get settled soon. Some people are really in a bad
situation. To many greedy people in the world! But there are some good campos.
The good campo's will soon turn BAD -- and quickly, the south campos problems are just that - ALL OF South Campos' Problems. Any landlord that gets
away with bribery and extortion will spread it to the others. Any landlord that demands we pay double the rent or loose our investment in our homes
is plain WRONG. The homeowners have improved the area and given way to generously to the people of the Elijdo - work, food, donations and
livelihoods! Schools and churches built and funded by homeowners.
It was not long ago that a mexican family had a fireworks stand that blew up, luckly the family got out of the trailer just in time! They lost
everything, and the generousity of the homeowners who gave goods, clothing and over $10k in CASH collectively to this family cannot be overlooked!
The greed and cohersion of any landowner HURTS the entire community.
You may not be first - but you sure are NEXT if you let this happen to the South Campos.
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