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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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Osprey, it's a fair question and it is a broad statement.
In my career I spent a reasonable amount of time with a "close up and personal" view of the Insurance industry from several perspectives. I observed
that middle managers have performance objectives that are aligned to the profit that their organizational entity (branch, department) generates. More
often than not these objectives are connected to the compensation plan of the manager. There's an adage, if you want to understand a company's
behavior or policies, (or change them), look at the details of the compensation plans. Insurance companies are for profit businesses, either for their
sharelholders if they are public or for the members of they are mutuals. Insurance contracts are typically very detailed documents and if for example
the document requires that a vehicle be legally registered that word legally may have implications. While many companies have excellent claim
service, that should not be construed that they are easily going to write a check if the customer has not ticked off all their obligations accurately
under the terms of the policy.
My intent was not to be alarmist, just to provide an angle of thought based upon my experience. If my credibility as I have chosen to state it does
not stand up...so be it.
[Edited on 8-14-2008 by oldlady]
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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I don't see how anyone could take issue with your courteous answer to my query. I just didn't want the readers here to think the goal of insurors is
to avoid paying legitimate claims. I think, with or without our discussion on the matter, many think insurors of every stripe devise, license and sell
policies with provisions for coverage they do not intend to honor -- that they purposefully deny claims that should be paid according to the coverages
and covenants of the contract. Most standard policies wording has been court tested in every state judicial district a bizzillion times. It's a rare
bird buyer who reads the contract before or after he agrees to the conditions. What policies do lawyers buy? Can't decide? Get their endorsement.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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cant you folks help anyone without fighting among yourselves?
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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Bad call on this one, ref......Osprey certainly didn't offend me and seemed to react that my explanation has a modicum of rationality and was well
intended caution. Relax, I think all is peaceful in paradise.
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1628
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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Thank you to every one for all of your answers. I knew about the FM-3 requirement and am in the process of getting that. I have more concerns over
losing the house I intend to keep it at than the beater I intend to buy.
I had completely forgotten about the Ca. insurance requirement. Thanks for the reminder. I have no intention of ever having to make a claim against
a US insurer on this vehicle because as I said I have no plans to return the vehicle here and they usually don't cover accidents in Baja. It sounds
like maintain a Ca liability policy isn't going to be cost prohibitive but I will definitely explore that. Mexican insurance is another matter. I
haven't read too many glowing reports about how they handle claims but then we often only hear the bad experiences. However I don't care to give them
an excuse to not pay just for expired tags (not legally registered).
Again, thanks to everyone. You have all given me great options to explore.
In Memory of E-57
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grito
Newbie
Posts: 13
Registered: 9-12-2006
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Car in Mexico
It is really quite simple-get a FM3 visa and then you can leave the car in Mexico legally as long as your visa is updated yearly. You do not need to
keep renewing your US registation as Mexico doesn't requite your foreign registartion to be current. That is why there are tens of thousands of US
plated vehicles with expired date tags on their plates.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
With the ridiculous cost of car rentals I am considering just buying a car to drive down and leave there. I'm sure this subject has been brought up
before but I've had no luck using the search feature. Residing in Ca. we are required to pass a smog test every other year to keep the vehicle
registered. I plan to keep the car in BCS so I have no desire to drive it back just for a smog check. I have been told that if I provide proof that
the vehicle is stored in Mx (Ie; receipt from storage yard and Mx insurance policy) that the smog test could be exempted and I could just pay my
registration fees and keep my tags current. CA DMV has never been known for logical reasoning so I was curious how others do this.
With the current cost of fuel here, gas guzzlers such as older Explorers, ect. are pretty cheap. It will only take a few trips to pay for it with the
savings of the rental car rates. |
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grito
You do not need to keep renewing your US registation as Mexico doesn't requite your foreign registartion to be current. That is why there are tens of
thousands of US plated vehicles with expired date tags on their plates.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
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This statement is true IF you are on the MAINLAND
and have the vehicle temp import sticker on your windshield (and have a current FM3 or FM2) ....
In BAJA you do not need the sticker BUT you do need to have current tags ... You will be stopped in major cities such as La Paz and Cabo San Lucas
if you have expired tags.
CaboRon
Mexico Vehicle Permit (Tempory Import Permit) can be applied for online ... it is not required in BC, BCS or Sonora, but is required in most states
of mainland Mexico.
http://www.banjercito.com.mx/site/tramiteitv_ing.jsp
[Edited on 8-15-2008 by CaboRon]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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The law related to this is Customs Law 106 or Articluo 106. When the cops pulls you over you and asks for registration, yell out the window "Sabes
Articulo Ciento-Seis?" or just "ARTICULO CIENTO SEIS" If they don't turn and walk away, give them a copy in spanish and tell them, "No puedes molestar
me, no tienes permiso." Works everytime. But they will pull you over.
Articulo 106 is interpreted as FM-3 holders may legally import a vehicle for 1 year plus 4 more or 4 years from the expired reg date if you plan to
return it to USA afterwards.
In the vehicle:
Keep a copy of the law below
Keep a copy of the FM-3
Keep a copy of your Passport
Keep a copy of your original valid registration and the original valid sticker
Articulo 106 Ley Aduanera
Que Se Entiende Por Régimen De Importación Temporal
ARTICULO 106. Se entiende por régimen de importación temporal, la entrada al país de mercancías para permanecer en el por tiempo limitado y con una
finalidad especifica, siempre que retornen al extranjero en el mismo estado, por los siguientes plazos.
FRACCION IV. Por el plazo que dure su calidad migratoria, incluyendo sus prorrogas, en los casos.
a) Las de vehículos que sean propiedad de turistas, visitantes, visitantes locales y distinguidos, estudiantes e inmigrantes rentistas, siempre que
los mismos sean de su propiedad a excepción de turistas y visitantes locales. Cuando no sean de su propiedad deberán cumplirse los requisitos que
establezca el Reglamento. Los vehículos podrán ser conducidos en territorio nacional por un extranjero que tenga algunas de las calidades migratorias
a que se refiere este inciso, por el cónyuge, los ascendientes o descendientes del importador, aun cuando estos ultimo no sean extranjeros, o por un
nacional, siempre que en este ultimo caso, viaje a bordo del mismo cualquiera de las personas autorizadas para conducir el vehiculo.
Los vehículos a que se refiere este inciso, deberán cumplir con los requisitos que señale el reglamento.
__________________________________
Article 106 Customs Law
Temporary Vehicle Importation Regulations
ARTICLE 106. Temporary importation is understood as the entry of merchandise into the country, which will remain in it for a limited period of time
and for a specific purpose, so long as it is returned abroad in the same condition. The former applies for the following term:
PART IV. For the term of his or her migratory status, including extensions, in the following cases:
a) Vehicles owned by tourists, visitors, local visitors and distinguished visitors, students, and immigrants who are tenants, whenever said vehicles
are their own, excepting tourists and local visitors. When the vehicles are not their own, requirements established within the regulations must be
met. Such vehicles may be driven within the national territory by a foreigner --the importer—holding one of the migratory status referred to in this
paragraph, by his or her spouse, parents or descendants, even when the latter are not foreigners: and by a Mexican as long as one of the persons
authorized to drive the vehicle travels with him or her in the car.
Vehicles referred to in this section must meet the requirements pointed out in the regulations.
http://www.aerointel.com/CustomsDocuments/mexico.pdf
http://www.clickoncuernavaca.com/Article%20106.htm
My notes: CaboRon is correct sort of. This can widely be interpreted in various ways, so just play it straight and know this will get you by but they
can get you on something else for example if there is a light out or anything at all not right this is invalid. Obviously very few police know or care
to know the rules one way or the other. Be persistent and get going. Its far easier to reg the car under the smog exemption previously noted than to
be hassled. Of course people only get hassled in cities not pueblos.
[Edited on 8-15-2008 by gnukid]
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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Gnukid,
There is a Nomad in La Paz who told me they used to carry around copies of the pertinent law ,
however got tired of explaining it to the La Paz police ...
They are all over the registration thing ...
I see almost regular exercizes on Abasolo where they stop Mexican plated vehicles only ... and vehicles with no plates.
When I first moved to La Paz I was stopped four times in two days because the South Dakota plates only have one decal and the big numbers are the
month and the small vertical numbers are the year ....
I would get out and point it out to them .....
Guess they finally worked it out as I haven't been stoped again ....
CaboRon
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Yep your right, the quad cops drive down the street looking backwards at the opposite lane, crazy, to check everyone's sticker? Don't give 'em any
money.
BTW if your car is legal now and you want to prepare to take it down, go online and complete the change of address and include your legal address in
baja. You can specify registration address and mailing address as the same or different. Choose both as your mexican mailing address. This will
automatically trigger the exemption in most cases, if not complete aforementioned renewal form and check exempt and state car is stored at the noted
address. If they say smog required fax it in during renewal noting the exemption. The stickers will come to you in Mexico, that is if mail ever gets
to you. Really works and surprisingly well.
Also, I tried to go directly to the DMV and spoke only spanish and they gave me stickers with no smog exemption and no insurance proof... no
questions...
[Edited on 8-15-2008 by gnukid]
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Insurance Companies and there model behavior
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Bad call on this one, ref......Osprey certainly didn't offend me and seemed to react that my explanation has a modicum of rationality and was well
intended caution. Relax, I think all is peaceful in paradise. |
Just for fun.... AIG.. Who had responsible for coverage of medical insurance payments and/or coverage to individuals who were contract workers in
Iraq, (for an example Blackwater)... these folks were in FACT denied out of hand ALL claims when first filed for coverage.... this was written
policy!!! by AIG... seems this came out about two or three years ago.. from the families of many, many folks that got just plain terrible treatment
when it came to getting medical coverage for injuries incurred while in Iraq.
There was many of the folks, that went over there and got hurt.... and what did they get.. from the folks at their insurance Company...
It was investigated....... given their track record, would think they got their Corporate hand slapped...
I'm an insurance agent and I here to help...... sorry I don't believe in commercials... never had a loss, where I didn't loose what ever it was, and
then still found my coverage had some "provision" which allowed me to be offered less...
Insurance is yet another business industry which makes a profit... and has a very lot of money to "walk the halls of Congress" and gets what it
needs... just like all the rest.
Both point have validity... however, removed from an academic and clean discussion to someone that has lost their legs... and arm.. and is trying to
come up with enough money to live and provide for "his or her" family ..... and gets a sharp stick in the eye...
Sorry, the Insurance Industry is no different from the lending ........ take, take, take... payout.. well...... step one!! your denied... now go for
it!!! get help, get a lawyer, get some more help.... and let's see what is going on in your life... right now!!!!.. not our problem... we deal in
insurance, not personal problems..
If you want to walk a fence on this issue, your call... for me... they are skunks... in most cases
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Just for fun.... AIG.. Who had responsible for coverage of medical insurance payments and/or coverage to individuals who were contract workers in
Iraq, (for an example Blackwater)... these folks were in FACT denied out of hand ALL claims when first filed for coverage.... this was written
policy!!! |
That's true. I wrote the code for an Internet based system that enabled American employees of defense contractors (management personnel) based in Iraq
to initiate insurance claims for injured or killed personnel with AIG, and AIG to process claims. One of the inputs was "claim status". During a
system design meeting with AIG I asked what the default status for a new claim should be, thinking "new" might be a reasonable value. Their answer was
"denied".
[Edited on 3-31-2010 by k-rico]
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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The posts to this topic have been superb. Nomads blow me away with their intelligence. Gnukid, thanks for the on-point substantiated detailed
quality of your posts - the best there is, man.
I am considering South Dakota registration, or Calif registration if I can get out of paying Calif insurance and having to get smogged every two
years. Certainly, I intend to cover the vehicle with bonafied "Visitor" Mexican insurance. My biggest concern with Calif registration being able to
get current tags from AAA while not having Calif insurance, having the Calif DMV revoke, in fact, said registration at a later date because the DMV
never got electronically notified of Calif Insurance coverage.
Here's the issue:
If I have an accident in Mexico (let's say it's my fault) and the fact is that Calif DMV revoked my registration prior to the accident because the DMV
realizes that I never got Calif ins coverage (and, accordingly, the DMV never got any electronic notification of such coverage) EVEN THOUGH I HAVE
CURRENT CALIF REGISTRATION TAGS on the vehicle, will the Mexican insurance company reject my claim relating to said accident using the fact that I
don't actually have current legal Calif DMV registration at the time of the accident?
Bottom line is, I want to be covered, in fact, with valid enforceable insurance coverage while in Baja.
The type of policy I am talking about is the type one gets from Mexican Insurance companies thru Discover Baja for US citizen visitors to Mexico on
vehicles with US registered plates wherein the policy is not intended nor written for coverage of a vehicle that is in Mexico full time and
permanently. These policies are for a year, but stipulate that the vehicle cannot be continuously in Mexico for 365 consecutive days but can be in
Mexico intermittantly during certain specified intervals only.
Side note. 1)For profit businesses do WHATEVER THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH to maximize profits and/or lead to greater earnings for the CEOs and top
executives without regard to the law, equity, fairness, or morality. "Getting away with things" means their never being discovered for the the
bad/harmful/illegal/unfair/immoral things that they do or it can mean limited discovery wherein the cost of such limited discovery is sufficiently
less than the cost not to do the bad things. 2)Price of a product is not at all necessarily dependent on the cost to produce the product, but is much
more influenced by the gross sales and reated maximized profit a price can bring. The best examples of this are found in the disparity of airline
ticket prices as it relates to distances traveled, diamond production and prices are completely artificial and manipulated to generate high profit
margins, the completely manipulated price of a barrel of oil.
[Edited on 3-31-2010 by MitchMan]
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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South Dakota - no smog requirements - no insurance required if not on highways in US. Only requires US address and SS#.
Doesn't this fit your requirements?
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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MitchMan- On your particular question, why not U2U BajaGeoff at BajaBound?
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El Jefe
Super Nomad
Posts: 1027
Registered: 10-27-2003
Location: South East Cape
Member Is Offline
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Before you cancel your USA insurance, check your Mexican "tourist" policy. It may require that you have current US coverage for your Mexican policy to
be valid.
No b-tchin\' in the Baja.
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