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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1628
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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Leaving a car in Mexico
With the ridiculous cost of car rentals I am considering just buying a car to drive down and leave there. I'm sure this subject has been brought up
before but I've had no luck using the search feature. Residing in Ca. we are required to pass a smog test every other year to keep the vehicle
registered. I plan to keep the car in BCS so I have no desire to drive it back just for a smog check. I have been told that if I provide proof that
the vehicle is stored in Mx (Ie; receipt from storage yard and Mx insurance policy) that the smog test could be exempted and I could just pay my
registration fees and keep my tags current. CA DMV has never been known for logical reasoning so I was curious how others do this.
With the current cost of fuel here, gas guzzlers such as older Explorers, ect. are pretty cheap. It will only take a few trips to pay for it with the
savings of the rental car rates.
In Memory of E-57
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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Alan,
Just before I moved my Bronco down here permanently, I registered it and transferred title to South Dakots. Here is a thread that goes into some
detail .... there are others also.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=31253#pid3177...
Good Luck,
I just renewed by mail (you need a US mail address) and have my new tags,
CaboRon
Edit Add: Just wanted to mention that to leave things in Mexico you need a proper visa (FM3/FM2) ... a tourista pass (FMT) does not allow you to
leave possesions here.
[Edited on 8-14-2008 by CaboRon]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Good for Ron to mention that 'tourists' cannot leave personal property in Mexico when they go back home... A tourist is someone in Mexico using an
FM-T (Tourist Card) visa for a max. 180 days.
See 'FM-3' (use Nomad search) and get a drink, because you will have alot to read!
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joel
Nomad
Posts: 361
Registered: 2-2-2007
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I've had no problem leaving my vehicles in Baja -- so far -- beyond the 180 days. I'm not aware of any way of the authorities checking. The local
police in our town don't bother even with registration, much less the 180 day limit.
As to the issue of smog checks on California registered vehicles. I was able to get an exemption from smog on my Suburban. I was at the AAA (which is
able to perform all of the DMV functions but with a smile and $40 membership fee). I asked the representative what I could do about a vehicle that was
in BCS that I didn't want to drive home just for a smog. He handed me an exemption form on which I wrote that the car was currently in BCS and he gave
me new reg tags on the spot.
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jeffg
Nomad
Posts: 175
Registered: 11-25-2004
Location: Vista, CA
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As noted you can get an exemption from the smog requirement, the DMV Statement of Facts form is here:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg256.pdf
Even though it says that Mexico is not exempted, if you explain that the car is 1000 miles from the border they will allow it.
But what you can't get out of anymore is the requirement for California insurance. Theoretically you should be able to get that waived as well by
showing permanent residency and a Mexican insurance policy, but I've had no luck with it. For me that was a big annual expense for a vehicle that
will never see CA again, so I too am now a South Dakota refugee.
Jeff
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joel
Nomad
Posts: 361
Registered: 2-2-2007
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Yes, the insurance is an issue. I have the least coverage possible on the vehicle that stays in Baja.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by joel
Yes, the insurance is an issue. I have the least coverage possible on the vehicle that stays in Baja. |
If the vehicle does not leave Mexico you are literally throwing money out the window ...
Maybe you can afford to do this, I can't.
And evidently you can afford to ditch the vehicle when immigration finds out you do not have papers.
Maybe you can afford to do this, I can't.
I prefer to adhire to the law of the land.
CaboRon
[Edited on 8-14-2008 by CaboRon]
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joel
Nomad
Posts: 361
Registered: 2-2-2007
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CaboRon,
Easy on the high ground.
I was just offering my experience to the original poster.
I've never heard of anyone having their car seized by immigration officials, but it would be good to share the details if you have.
I'm sure if you run afoul of the authorities and they're kicking you out of the country, your car may be in trouble, but I suspect few of the posters
here get into the kind of trouble that gets you thrown out of the country.
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joel
Nomad
Posts: 361
Registered: 2-2-2007
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I should also add that if you have South Dakota plates and are a California resident, it is illegal in California to drive the car back to California
-- especially if you don't have U.S. insurance.
While my car has been in Baja a long time, at some point I'm going to want to be able to drive home in case I need to bring something up or down that
is too big for the plane. I like always having the option to drive back to California if I really need to.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3602
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Stay within the law
| Quote: | Originally posted by joel
I should also add that if you have South Dakota plates and are a California resident, it is illegal in California to drive the car back to California
-- especially if you don't have U.S. insurance. |
Same with Colorado. If you are a resident here, and have a vehicle registered in another state, it's best not to drive the vehicle in Colorado.
If you're caught, you're in trouble.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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I have both my vehicles and a motorcycle registered in California and insured in Colorado (only US residence I have) using a South Dakota billing
address. I added the annual Mexico supplement policy. Works for me- but then again I haven't had to file a claim.
When I cross the border into the USA I see maybe 1 in 10 other cars with clearly expired CA tags. I'd say 50% of the CA plates I see in Rosarito Beach
have expired tags. You'd think the local police would hone in on those violators first- before bothering anyone with current plates and tags no
mattter which sate.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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viabaja
Nomad
Posts: 277
Registered: 10-6-2003
Location: Georgia
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Alan,
Alot of good info. Here is my personal experience:
Legally you need an FM3 or FM2 to store anything (house, boat, car etc.) But that is your own busness.
Ca. DMV may or may not issue tags for a vechicle left in Baja. If it has to be smogged, they may issue a variance as long as it is not left in the
border cities. The DMV in Oceanside issued tags on my 1980 Jeep which I leave in Baja the first year. Second time I got the runaround (must be
smogged, etc. etc.) - waiver will NOT be granted. Even got the Supervisor involved. Said look, you guys waivered it last time. Didn't matter.
Different Super. The solution was to bring back plates & get an off-road sticker only for the jeep since it is used 95% of the time off pavement.
So it's still legal with registration in case I'm stopped by the Mexicans.
So, smile, schmooze, & maybe the DMV Supervisor will be in a good mood! Something to grease one's palms always helps!!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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The fine point here for California residents is the part of the form where it asks if the car is exempt from smog, because
1) it is stored outside of California
Except for Mexico. Baja California Sur is not considered Mexico. So the statement is true, the vehicle is stored outside of California but not in
Mexico.
For clarification, Baja California Sur is not Mexico because a different set of laws apply to BCS versus Mexico, in the country of Mexico.
Simply check the box, smog exempt, reason stored outside California and if needed state vehicle is stored in Baja California Sur.
Insurance is required in California, I have both California and Mexico Insurance since California will revoke your registration without insurance
however it is possible to complete the registration and then later submit the mexican insurance document and allow california insurance to lapse.
On the other hand it is not expensive to maintain california insurance for a vehicle of low value say it is valued at $100 and is a second vehicle,
driven for pleasure, with only liability in the lowest range. The cost will be under $200 a year and likely lower if you have a good record.
In regard to FM3 and FM-T for stored vehicles, you may leave the vehicle with someone who is a resident or who maintains a FM-3 and write a
declaration that the person is authorized to maintain posession, including mexicans of us plated vehicles however the vehicle will remain in your
name. This is a legal process and quite common, the forms exist in most places where forms are sold.
In fact if you have a car in Baja and you will pass large cities you might as well maintain these blank documents in your vehicle in case of an
emergency where you will need a mexican to drive your car or you need to leave it to be repaired for a length a time.
This explanation usurps david K's explanation of the laws which restrict FM-T visitors for over 180 days and both FM-3 and FM-T visitors from allowing
Mexican Nationals to drive their vehicles legally.
Once more get the authorized driver documents from a store which sells forms and maintain blanks for emergencies.
The alternative is to go directly to someone who will assist with office of Transito and begin the Mexican importation process however that is equally
hard and problematic with its own advantages.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by joel
CaboRon,
Easy on the high ground.
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I am not on high ground ....
That is why I HAVE to be squeeky clean 
CaboRon
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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Lee makes a very good point on staying within the law. Think about your tolerance for risk. Insurance companies in any country will look for any
reason not to pay a claim. That's their business and their commitment to their shareholders. If you register and title the vehicle in a state where
you have no residency can that be a loophole for the insurance company? My biggest concern is always that small chance that some vehicular disaster
occurs and because of an attempt to circumvent the inconveniences of the "system" big consequences can arise.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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why don't you just buy a car here in Baja Ca.? It is easy, Quick, cheep, and legal
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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and you get allot more respect driving around with a local plate on your car
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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The whole world knows that Baja California and Baja California Sur are part of Mexico even though they have some different laws. They are part of the
"Frontera" which includes part of Sonora. This does not make them different countries.
FMTs require the removal of ALL possessions when one leaves Mexico.
Whether one wants to obey the laws is, of course, another subject
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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"Insurance companies in any country will look for any reason not to pay a claim. That's their business and their commitment to their shareholders."
Oldlady, where did you come by that broad statement? Did you read that somewhere? Did some insurance company official say that you you? An insurance
policy is a contract. Are you saying company owners tell adjusters to find ways to void or alter the contract and that's how they do business, commit
to shareholders that that's how they make a profit, pass it through to holders of preferred or common stock? Tell us more.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
The whole world knows that Baja California and Baja California Sur are part of Mexico even though they have some different laws. They are part of the
"Frontera" which includes part of Sonora. This does not make them different countries.
FMTs require the removal of ALL possessions when one leaves Mexico.
Whether one wants to obey the laws is, of course, another subject |
Believe me or not, legally Baja California Sur is not Mexico as far as transit laws are concerned. As you know vehicle laws are quite different for
Sonora than for La Frontera.
I happen to know this fact because I follow the law at all costs, I have met at length with DMV and have completed my registrations for along list of
cars according to the laws and convenants of both nations. To come to this understanding I patiently met with DMV officials in California and
initially waited while we paged through the large book of laws for many hours. The law is quite clear. Baja California Sur transit laws in particular
are not qualified as Mexico transit laws according to the documentation.
Clearly, BCS is in the country of Mexico (duh). But anyone knows that we do not follow the same laws and restrictions of Mexico, such as importation
permits.
The reason is quite clear, the historical distance to BCS, the difficulty in making the passage, the quality and type of gas, all mean that you do not
have to return for smog check because it would cause an undue burden to the individual.
Now having this info, I register cars with no problem and am exempt from smog for my vehicles which are in BCS.
Furthermore, a FM-T may not maintain possession of goods while gone but you can turn those items over legally to someone else while you are gone. This
makes quite good sense and is completely reasonable. If you were tryig to circumvent the law in a gross fashion, that would be different. But for a
part time traveler to sign his vehicle over to someone is else is completely in the law and there exists forms to do so at most places that sell
forms.
You are welcome to disagree, or to accuse people like myself of being illegal. We are not. in no case are laws supposed to be unduly burdensome where
the individual is attempting to conform to the law but is unable to due to physical and infrastructure restrictions.
Why you would insist on arguing with facts which are the common experience, legal and just is beyond me. Perhaps you wish to punish travelers or you
simply are unwilling to see our two countries as integrated and therefore reasonable.
Having made myself clear, drawing from laws of both countries and having spent great lengths of time in DMV and la offcina del transito yo se es la
verdad. It is the truth.
In reviewing this issue it seems some Americans would prefer to project restrictions which are unreasonable and certainly not the intent of the law.
You may make your choice. I am 100% legal have been pulled over and had my mexican friends pulled over and never had a ticket in either country. Hah!
For the record I do maintain a FM-3 and a large packet of laws of copies to educate those who persist to claim ignorance and make this more difficult
than it should be. I think you know who you are.
[Edited on 8-14-2008 by gnukid]
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