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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajariverrat
Do you have experience getting burned by the Social Security down in Baja? |
I've avoided SS by doing my own work. I only hired a contractor and crew to do the garage concrete foundation and they gave me a copy of the SS
receipt before the job was started. That's more than I expected, but it was good.
I've seen more than one case when SS responsibilities were defered and eventually they came down on the owner. It only takes a quick phone call from
a disgruntled laborer.
The came down hard with heavy fines. Don't let it happen to you.
You might want to start a thread here asking for pitfalls with hired help in home construction .....especially Social Security. It's been covered
here before, but it will give Nomads something to do.
It's been kinda dull around here lately.
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bajariverrat
Newbie
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Dennis and Meme, all of the information is appreciated. Thank you so much.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
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Location: La Paz
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bajariverrat, if you're asking a local, you might have a little more success if you asked for directions to the "Seguro Social"
office.
The builder/contractor is supposed to pay SS on all his workers, but if he fails to, the property owner will be held liable.
Great grassroots effort you're trying to get rolling, but you do need to know the laws & potential legal ramifications for any & all of the
players in the event something backfires. Not sure about this year, but SS was roughly an additional 40% above & beyond wages when I built my
last place in 2007-08....so we're not talking chickenfeed here!
Seguro Social is actually an umbrella name for what's really 3 separate funds....
1) Medical coverage for the worker & his family for the duration of the work & the equivalent of Workman's Comp for on the job injuries.
2) A portion goes toward the workers retirement fund.
3) A large portion every other month (or quarterly?) earmarks a credit in the worker's name for INFONIVIT....the government subsidized housing. The
credit against their name is deducted from the purchase price of a subsidized casa when/if they buy one.
So knowing the elements that make up Seguro Social might make it understandable why it's important & only fair for SS to be paid for all the
workers.
A lot of workers will tell you not to worry about paying SS because they're desperate for an income, but it doesn't come back to bite them, it comes
back to bite the legal owner of the property where the work was physically done. So don't allow yourself to be sweet-talked into ignoring the Seguro
Social requirements.
Sincere best wishes to you for your efforts!
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bajariverrat
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Very interesting. I am definately going to spread the word. How do you confirm with a contractor that the SS has been paid? Is there a form he
would have? Should I offer to pay it up front? My place didn't suffer as much damage as the others. For my place, the labor alone should be less
than $3,000. I would be willing to pay an additional $1200 to ensure that I am in compliance. I'm glad you've all explained this because I've never
realized this.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Inasmuch as you stated that many or most of the homes are covered by GNP, it would be astounding to me if that company did not already have a long
list of approved contractors. Talk to them. But look elsewhere as well.
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bajariverrat
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Oh yeah, GNP has been great. I guess I have a bit of what they call "survivor's remorse"? I am insured and have a small amount of damage compared to
all of my neighbors on the river. I'm just trying to do a bunch of leg work and make connections so that I can pass on the information once those who
decide to rebuild are ready to do so. This forum is great and you all have been so informative. We really appreciate all of your advice, leads, and
information.
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajariverrat
Very interesting. I am definately going to spread the word. How do you confirm with a contractor that the SS has been paid? Is there a form he
would have? Should I offer to pay it up front? My place didn't suffer as much damage as the others. For my place, the labor alone should be less
than $3,000. I would be willing to pay an additional $1200 to ensure that I am in compliance. I'm glad you've all explained this because I've never
realized this. |
Seguro Social is not paid in advance, it's paid on a 30-day lag. Either you or the contractor has to go in & sign all the workers up, new workers
need to be added & workers no longer there need to be removed. SS generates a multi-copy computer printout form on a monthly basis. Here in La
Paz, they physically bring the monthly paperwork to the job-site & you have to take it in & pay it before the cut-off date for that month. I
know that some people pay it online, but I paid in person, after looking at the online site....too confusing!!
That's an interesting point....if GNP pays the cost of repairs, will they also be paying the SS on the workers?? It seems like they SHOULD, because
it is all part of the true total cost for repairs.
If you or the contractor pays it, you'll/he'll get a paid receipt in the form of one of the copies of the multi-part computer generated form. If he's
not willing to part with it, ask him for a Xerox copy of it.
If you hire a contractor who has his own employees, then the SS should be built into his presupuesto/quote to you. If it's not itemized....ask him
whether or not it's built into his pricing & tell him you want proof of payment. It's not unheard of for a contractor to charge SS & "forget"
to pass the money along to SS once it hits his pocket. If it is built into his pricing, then you don't want to double pay....you just need proof that
it was paid.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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Posting some pictures
Hey Jeff ......
Post some of those pictures you sent to me a few nights ago. They will stir up insight on how bad things really are.
As far as all the legal stuff......I am asking someone in SF if she can handle the legals for you. Will know in a few days time.
Has the river gone down yet?
Deno Yankee
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bajariverrat
Newbie
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Registered: 4-8-2010
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http://picasaweb.google.com/104665208702522312529/RioHardy20...
http://www.wakeworld.com/flash/photoWidget.swf?album=26623
Hopefully these links will work. There are alot of pictures. I think the fault line followed the river. River rose about 9 feet after the quake.
It is down about a foot. We had geysers shooting water out of the ground all over the place. Crazy. Again, thanks for everyone's help and advice.
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mcfez
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Registered: 12-2-2009
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they r up
Pics working fine
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
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Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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don't think SS requirement applies to people you hire for domestic work like cleaning your house or working in your yard every so often. if it does
there's a whole lot of us in non-compliance
Bob Durrell
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
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ss
Jeff
Just got this from Maria
http://www.hg.org/law-firms/Social-Security/Mexico.html
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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WOW...You folks are really trying to spend the big bucks. I don't think you need a powerful attorney....just someone who knows the system.
Try Seguro Social and find someone who you can communicate with. That's all you have to do.
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bajariverrat
Newbie
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Thanks for the SS Attorney information.
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fandango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 549
Registered: 1-30-2006
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bajariverrat: check your u2u. top right corner.
sbwontoo
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajariverrat
Dennis,
Do you know where can I get information on Mexican Social Security? Is there a Government Office? Thank you for any info. |
There is no SS requirement for helping out a neighbor or friend...
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
There is no SS requirement for helping out a neighbor or friend... |
True, SS isn't involved at that point, but if a foreigner isn't qualified through inmigración, he can't work on that project.
He can work on his own house, but not his neighbors.
So, Gnu...you've opened the can of worms. Shall we inquire as to how many of these tenants are legal? Owning a house in Mexico kinda removes one
from the tourist rolls.
[Edited on 4-12-2010 by DENNIS]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
There is no SS requirement for helping out a neighbor or friend... |
True, SS isn't involved at that point, but if a foreigner isn't qualified through inmigración, he can't work on that project.
He can work on his own house, but not his neighbors.
So, Gnu...you've opened the can of worms. Shall we inquire as to how many of these tenants are legal? Owning a house in Mexico kinda removes one
from the tourist rolls.
[Edited on 4-12-2010 by DENNIS] |
It's true that if one were to be regularly involved in some projects then this would become an issue but on a one time case it isn't. For example, if
someone reported to INM a complaint and they got off their butts at that moment (unlikely) and came over and saw you working they might ask you what
are you doing and you could say nothing, I am helping a friend showing him how to use a shovel and if the agent decided that was no good they could
tell you stop and you would stop. No money changed hands.
Its much less a problem than one would think when one approaches these situations reasonably, there is no crime in lending a hand. I know that is true
in Mexico, even though if you listened to many posters here you certainly could justify never lending a hand.
In BCS we tend to work in groups helping each other out, that's how most homes get built. Today I helped a procurador with a project-I thought I was
in trouble when the PGJ car parked out front, til I realized he was just asking me to help pack down the soil before he poured a foundation, now I am
going to a rancho to get some dirt and guano to help another neighbor. They will probably give me some of the soil and maybe later fruits. No money.
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gnukid
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I got a funny SS story, a few years back I wanted some wood work done, I bought the wood and paid a deposit in advance to start, then the project was
never completed and the wood disappeared. The workers made excuses for months and finally admitted the wood was gone and the money too. I got mad but
I walked out having realized it was best to cut the losses at the point then to continue to beat my head against the wall.
Two years later I got a summons for court, I was accused of not paying the SS on the stolen wood and money project. In the process the workers turned
on each other and asked me to lie to support their case that the boss hadn't paid them for their work that they never completed. Ha! there was a room
full liars and more waiting to testify, it didn't take long for the judge to figure out that it was a case of thieves victimizing the victim-the fun
game to play. So fun!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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Good story. Gawd....the farther I stay away from local "talent", the better off I am. "Screw the Gringo" is a national sport and when I'm unable to
do my own work, I'll go back to the states and move into a home for the old and helpless.
I won't bloat a quote box responding to your other post, but I agree with pretty much most of it except the parts about BSing the agents. I've seen
it tried in the past and only got this response, "What do you think I am, stupid?"
Here and now is probably the wrong time and place to teach the clueless all of the inside tricks. I'd hate to be the one responsible for digging
their grave. You know how to deal with the authority and it's a learned talent.....not a born trait. These river folks will learn soon enough what
they can reasonably get away with. Sooner the better.
[Edited on 4-12-2010 by DENNIS]
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