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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Osprey's post is right on target for what happens and Bajahowodd is a little off center. Policies sold from a Mexican company by a United States
business whether it is Lewis and Lewis or Costco is done by what is called Surplus Lines Brokerage. It is not regulated by the department of
Insurance in the state in which you buy the insurance so the expectation that a broker would have much influence over claims decisions is a
mis-statement at best and probably dangerous if you think that they will exercise a whole lot of influence. Normally brokers have a license agreement
with the various insurance companies that they sell and they also carry a liability policy for errors and omissions and the whole process is covered
by the state insurance commissioner in the state in which you buy those policies. When it comes to surplus lines brokerage, the controls imposed by
the state are different and while some companies selling surplus lines are very large and have some influence, you should not expect it to go along
the lines of how you might interact with your State Farm or Progressive agent.
The part that Osprey touched on is perhaps the most important part of purchasing a policy. It is important that you know exactly what is covered
and for how much. I have listened to discussios for years on this forumn as well as others, and it usually goes to how the sales person had a
pleasant tone to their voice or how nice the receptionist was, or even worse, how much the policy cost. You need to know what your liability limits
are, how the legal fees are covered and for how much, how repairs are handled and whether or not you can have your car repaired in the United States,
what happens if you are hit by a non-insured motorist (like that never happens in Mexico), how much medical is covered for you and any victims, are
other drivers covered and what qualifications are enforced, if you are towing a boat or trailer you need to know how it is covered, and finally any
exclusions or riders issued that would good to know about.
Bajahowodd is right on the fact that you need to deal with a reputable agent because they should specialize in finding the policy that comes closest
to your needs, but the responsibility is yours to ask all of the relevant questions and not make the erroneous assumption that a Mexican auto policy
is just like an American policy only cheaper. I have a problem with the idea of buying a policy from Costco because you get none of the services of a
broker which may be your major link to getting the right policy in the first place, and providing some limited help in the event that you find
yourself in the maze of trying to find out how to get through the confusion of a claim.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Right on Pescador, good advice. The slippery slope on buying habits is that we are getting more comfortable buying online. Some services like
legal/realty/medical are and should stay, face to face transactions. Insurors have set the trap -- they know you won't, on your own, read the
contract, the conditions, the exclusions. They aren't really glad for that because that causes misunderstandings when claims arise that are costly for
all parties to the claim. If and when the online buyer is denied part of a claim he can only say "I didn't know about that provision. I thought I was
paying for that protection. Somebody should have given me constructive notice about the contract beyond the online purchase, beyond sending me
contract agreements online or in the mail. Both parties lose, both are at fault. The insuror loses a client, the client feels cheated. The insured
didn't pay a premium for that kind of protection, now says, "had I known, I would have sought that coverage from you or others and paid the premium
for it". Sometimes the insureds understanding or lack of info about available coverages feels cheated but learns too late no one will indemnify him
for the kinds of protection he thought was available. Ya just gotta be told, ya just gotta ask questions.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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So is the verdict still out on CostCo insurance? Bonita West is the actual insurer. (now that I have two active policies of course)
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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The verdict is just don't have an accident. If you read and understand the info on this thread and follow it you can't go wrong but then again it is
insurance.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
So is the verdict still out on CostCo insurance? Bonita West is the actual insurer. (now that I have two active policies of course)
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No, Bonita West is not the insurer but should be the broker of record, the insurer is Qualitas Insurance which is a Mexican Insurance Company. Big,
Huge difference here. I have heard some positive reports about Bonita West so buying from Costco is nothing more than an effective way to market the
policies, but if you are going to have a contact person to go to, it should be the broker. So the insurance marketed by Costco still has a broker and
a Mexican Insurance company and the confusion comes from assuming that Costco is somehow in the insurance business.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Re: comments by both Pescador and Osprey- Quite spot on. My comment about the broker was rooted in the fact that if one has an accident, it is the
broker that is called first to report the claim. Obviously, the broker has no authority to settle a claim. But, if they have a good working
relationship with the insurance carrier, they can be very helpful in moving things along/ run a little interference, if the client is having a
problem. That's one of the factors lacking in the US when people buy direct from a carrier over the internet.
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KurtG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1211
Registered: 1-27-2004
Location: California Central Coast
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Mood: Press On Regardless!!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
So is the verdict still out on CostCo insurance? Bonita West is the actual insurer. (now that I have two active policies of course)
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No, Bonita West is not the insurer but should be the broker of record, the insurer is Qualitas Insurance which is a Mexican Insurance Company. Big,
Huge difference here. I have heard some positive reports about Bonita West so buying from Costco is nothing more than an effective way to market the
policies, but if you are going to have a contact person to go to, it should be the broker. So the insurance marketed by Costco still has a broker and
a Mexican Insurance company and the confusion comes from assuming that Costco is somehow in the insurance business. |
I'm a Bonita West/Costco customer and it seemed very clear to me from day one that I was not buying from Costco but simply getting a discount from
Bonita West for being a Costco member. The link on Costco's website took me to Bonita West's website and it seemed quite clear to me who the broker
was.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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i have bonita west on speed dial, if needed.....
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Getting what You Pay For
| Quote: | Originally posted by KurtG
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
So is the verdict still out on CostCo insurance? Bonita West is the actual insurer. (now that I have two active policies of course)
|
No, Bonita West is not the insurer but should be the broker of record, the insurer is Qualitas Insurance which is a Mexican Insurance Company. Big,
Huge difference here. I have heard some positive reports about Bonita West so buying from Costco is nothing more than an effective way to market the
policies, but if you are going to have a contact person to go to, it should be the broker. So the insurance marketed by Costco still has a broker and
a Mexican Insurance company and the confusion comes from assuming that Costco is somehow in the insurance business. |
I'm a Bonita West/Costco customer and it seemed very clear to me from day one that I was not buying from Costco but simply getting a discount from
Bonita West for being a Costco member. The link on Costco's website took me to Bonita West's website and it seemed quite clear to me who the broker
was. |
Fundamentally, Mexican insurers charge a certain rate for certain coverage. The broker that provides the customer receives a commission from the
carrier. That's how the broker earns a living. Given that Costco doesn't do anything for nothing, I have to assume that Bonita West and Costco have
some form of fee splitting arrangement. So, although I've not done any price comparisons, I just find it difficult to believe that given that there
are more pieces of the pie to be shared, that customers buying from Costco/ Bonita West, are actually paying lower rates for the same coverage from
the same insurer that also works with brokers like Lewis & Lewis, BajaBound or MexAdventure.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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my coverage thru bonita is 1/2 the cost of bajabound. and i get $4000/person medical which is exactly double what bajabound offered me last year.
other than that the coverage was the same.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65285
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Does 'Bonita' sponsor this web site we all use and enjoy for free?
BajaBound.com does and they are Baja Nomads, too... That, and being able to talk to them about any problem should be worth a little more than a Costco
special... yes?
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
my coverage thru bonita is 1/2 the cost of bajabound. and i get $4000/person medical which is exactly double what bajabound offered me last year.
other than that the coverage was the same. |
Woody- I do not doubt what you are saying. But just consider if somehow there's a catch. I don't know. What i do know is that something is too good to
be true, ........
It would really be helpful if BajaGeoff jumped in here to explain what's going on. Seriously. Even if it meant having to admit the inability to match
the rates that Bonita West offers. As I mentioned in prior posts, there really is just only so much money to go around.
Maybe Bonita West is a tax shelter
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Woody, you need to do an exact comparison between the coverages which I have done numerous times over the years and when you compare the amount of
liability limits, the amount of legal, the amounts of medical, etc, there is normally a big price difference. The way that insurance is marketed in
the US is to make it all look the same, but when you actually compare the nitty-gritty details, you will find a significant difference. First is the
declared values of whatever is covered. You do not want to skimp here, declare as close to actual value as possible. Now look at the CSL which is
the Civil Liability Limit. You want at least $300,000 Civil Liability which is usually $5,000 per person, $25,000 per acciden for Medical Payments.
Then check the Legal Service Clause, as my last policy had $75,000 per incident but the previous policy had unlimited legal Service. Then check the
Per Unit Deductible in terms of accident, which is normally $500 per unit or $1,000 total. Theft is normally covered at $1,000 per unit which is
double the normal deductible. My current policy states that labor per hour for body work is $38 per hour and Mechanical and Frame or $50 per hour.
If you have not done so, you need to take a minute or two and actually review your policy and see what the coverages are. One example I remember
from a few years back on this site was someone challenging me that he had good coverage and paid a lot less than I did for the exact same policy, but
when we did a good comparison he found he only had $100,000 CSL instead of the $500,000 I had at the time. He also had a $5,000 legal Services limit,
wheras I had unlimited. So you really need to educate yourself a little and check the actual comparisons. A good broker should also be able to do
the same thing but oftentimes they have settled on a particular line of insurance and can only justify why it is the best and they do not want to give
you an actual comparison. When I was an active broker for Health Insurance policies, I refused to only represent one or two companies because I felt
it important to be able to show the differences in coverage between the various companies, which all sold for the same price whether they used me or
someone else, but it was the service I provided that made my brokerage valuable.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I carry a Qualitas policy through Costco, last week I hit a wounded cow in the middle of the road at 5:30AM damaging the front of my truck. I called
Qualitas and they made an appointment to send an adjuster, I met him today and he had me fill out an accident report, took a few photos and gave me a
repair order for a body shop. The adjuster was courteous and professional, the whole thing took about a half hour. He only asked to see my driver's
license and didn't ask for any immigration docs. or anything else, I can't imagine how it could have been any easier. Now it's between me and the body
shop I guess.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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thanks for taking the time to write it all up Pescador. this info should be stuck on the announcements page.
if i remember right the 100k was the same for both. deductibles were the same. i don't remember the legal amounts. legal "I. The professional services
received of a judicial nature by the Insured in dealing with the penal or administrative problem that occurred. The Company shall pay for the
professional services as a maximum an amount equivalent to 2,000 Dlls.
II. The expenses inherent to the criminal trail as a direct result of the accident. For the expenses incurred in the penal process of the accident as
a whole, the Company shall pay as a maximum an amount equivalent to 750 Dlls.
III.In the event that the Judicial Authority were to establish an amount for the provisional freedom of the driver and the release of the automotive
unit, the Company agrees to submit a surety bond for a combined single limit per event up to a maximum, amount of 25,000 Dlls. In every instance, the
Insured agrees to comply with the requirements that for this purpose the Company needs.
IV.In the event that the Judicial Authority establishes an amount for obtaining the provisional freedom of the driver and the release a the vehicle,
the Company shall cover the amount of premium for said bond, up to a maximum amount equivalent to 6,000 Dlls and the Estado de México to a maximum
amount equivalent to 8,700 Dlls.
2. The obligation of the Company to pay the legal fees, is circumscribed to the limits of the amounts that appear in item 1 of this coverage. Said
limits of the amounts issued shall be automatically reinstated when they are reduced due to any payment made by the Company during the term of the
policy."
i'm still trying to find out what is the deal with their covering a non insured motorist. i'll post details tomorrow (they're closed now).
[Edited on 4-28-2010 by woody in ob]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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full coverage is insured against uninsured motorists.
all in all, it seems like good coverage for the price! let's hope none of us ever need to use it!
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Full coverage is not actually a definitive term. If it was, then there would be a more level playing field in the marketplace. Historically,
California can be looked at as the petri dish when it comes to uninsured motorist coverage. fact is that most, if not all insurance companies lobbied
for compulsory insurance because back in the day, so many people drove around uninsured that the insurance companies were paying incredible amounts of
money to settle claims under their uninsured motorist coverage, with less than a snowball's chance in Hades of recovering a buck from the uninsured
offender.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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that's full vs. liability.
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sharktooth
Junior Nomad
Posts: 56
Registered: 2-5-2010
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My 2 cents on buying your Mexican insurance
Buy direct from the Mexican insurance brokers such as bajabound, mexadventure.com, discover baja or other brokers whose ONLY line of business is
Mexican insurance. The direct brokers have direct access to the Mexican claims departments, and can easily assist you if a claim goes off the rails.
(some brokers are better than others)
- AVOID big box shops who sell Mexican insurance such as COSTCO, AAA, GEICO, etc...
The big box shops may have non-licensed people selling Mexican insurance who tend to know nothing about Mexican insurance. If you need claims help,
you will get lost in a labrynth of people who don't know how to help you....it can be impossible to speak to someone in charge.
(FYI - COSTCO is not a Mexican insurance broker - they have a contract with a Mexican insurance broker who provides the insurance to COSTCO)
Mexican insurance can be complicated - so cut out the middlemen and buy direct from the US brokers and businesses whose only line of business is
Mexican insurance and Mexican travel.
I must disclose that I work for Adventure Mexican Insurance - I am not posting this as an advertisement for our company. I have just heard complaints
from many customers who used these big box shops in the past, and they received horrible claims service.
Some people feel safer buying Mexican insurance through BIG names like COSTCO and AAA - but my experience is that the big name stores don't have the
time or ability to help you when you have a complicated claim that that needs immediate attention.
Hope that helps
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charchilp
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: 5-8-2010
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As for Qualitas I have been with them probably 6-7 years, one claim someone backed into me, got their Plate Number, Qualitas claim adjuster spoke
English and got the claim settled fast and to my satisfaction.
Cheap SEO
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