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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
there is no such thing as tipping too much. |
There's a difference between tipping and gifting. Why would you want to give a gift to a gas station attendant? Huh??
It reminds me of the often said warning for relativly rich tourists flaunting their wealth. The advice is, "Don't do it." So, why would you do it in
a gas station?
[Edited on 5-2-2010 by DENNIS]
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wessongroup
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Well now, what would the proper amount of a tip be, (10 or 20%) if one were to have dinner with the mayor of a city, and were wearing sandals with
white socks... funny as I have done exactly that... never even gave it a thought, just acted naturally ... and my feet sweat too, got frost bitten one
time, and they have never worked right with temp regulation since.. 
Hemingway?
"A man's got to take a lot of punishment to write a really funny book."
[Edited on 5-2-2010 by wessongroup]
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shari
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dianne, I am surprised after being here for awhile and having local amigos that you dont understand what I'm talking about.
I am in contact with all kinds of mexicanos all day every day and the word gringo comes up dozens of times a day in normal conversation...but not at
ALL in a negative way...I'm alsosurprised you arent aware that the word gringo is NOT offensive here...it just a word everyone uses to describe the
anglos who visit or live here...just like I call locals mexicanos, they call us gringos...with NO mal intent whatsoever. It's easier to prounounce
than extanjero, gabacho which is also commonly used, norte americano etc.
Of course there will always be those who dont like gringos and dont want change...you can bet they dont have a business or much contact with
foreigners (gringos is easier to spell). Most expats who own property and live here part or full time have very very good mexican friends who they
love and admire. But that has nothing to do with going to a restaurant with them. It is fine to have them over for dinner or to another gringos
place...that is just fine although if there is a gringo party where there are other mexicanos, juan usually wont show up.
But going to a restaurant in public in a small village is another matter altogether. I understand Juan's concern about being perceived as a barbero by
his piers. He is a proud man... this is his culture and I have had to learn and try to understand the finer points of it. We hear others talking about
certain barberos here in the village and he just does not want to be portrayed as one. I certainly dont agree with it but must accept it as we have to
live here and deal with our friends and neighbours daily. I'm not about to force Juan to embarrass himself.
Dianne, I am jut trying to explain a little known cultural issue here of appearing in public with gringos...while you speak some spanish and have some
mexican friends, perhaps they dont discuss these cultural points with you...even if you ask them, you may not get a true answer. I had lived here full
time for over 15 years but it wasnt until I married a mexicano that I began to learn what REALLY goes on...what they talk about when no gringos are
around...what they call people you and I know. Yes, it may be sad to see how they think about others but it is what it is and we live with it.
Sometimes I wish the folks here were more advanced, more...lets say...worldly or cosmopolitan but it is a remote village and the customs are
antiquated...which has its charm in some cases. Little by little we are breaking down these barriers one by one...but change comes slow and not
without pain. Unfortunately, there are some barberos here who "use" gringos but are not sincerely their friends...but this is common everywhere I'm
sure.
I am proud of the expats ( I personally hate that word but dont mind gringo) here who have integrated well into the community and have meaningful
relationships with thier neighbours and amigos and share experiences and culture with them...this is how we will make great strides to understand each
other.
It's funny because one criticism I have heard alot is that many gringos dont give a rats burro about how they look or what other people think...which
really goes against the grain of mexican culture...they are a proud race who strive to look nice as it is very important to them what others think of
them. I'm sure poor Juan is so emabarrased by my fachada dress code...jeans, big T-shirt and thongs and how I shamlessly accept free meals from
strangers but he accepts that that is part of my culture too.
I have great respect for the visitors here who try to fit in, dress adequately and try to learn about and respect the local culture.
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woody with a view
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GREAT post Shari. that really helps explain a lot of what one might consider being given the cold shoulder by a local.
as for the word "gringo", i feel like i'm being called a ni*ger if a mexican calls me "hey gringo!" sorta like me saying "hey bean#r!" it could be my
lack of understanding who/what is trying to be communicated but that's just how i feel about it.
i could be wrong!
[Edited on 5-2-2010 by woody in ob]
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DianaT
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Shari,
Interesting, but your post does go round and round in a large circle and contradicts your original post. Oh well, not important.
Except you really do not paint a very good picture of the locals---and I am not referring to the use of gringo.
[Edited on 5-2-2010 by DianaT]
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Cypress
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People wearing socks and sandals? They look sorta funny. Their thought
processes are even funnier.
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shari
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strange...I am not meaning to paint anybody anything...just trying to explain a complex cultural difference. Everyone knows how wonderful the
villagers are here...but they just have thier strange (to us) values.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
i could be wrong!
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No...You're not wrong. It's basically a derogatory term regardless of how lovingly it's used. It's been sooo used that it's become acceptable,
usually among friends.
None the less, the original intent is there when the user wants it to be.
What I'm saying is, when two Mexicans are having a private conversation and the term "Gringo" is used, you can bet it isn't to flatter anybody. It's,
as Shari says, a convenient label which, unfortunatly, can still carry it's original intent.
We've had extensive threads on this issue in the past and it's amazing how many people equate the term with something on the level of "Amigo" and
similar words.
Oh, well....whatever.
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Osprey
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We are getting close to where the rubber meets the road. Now is the time to recognize this difference in cultures and ACCEPT IT. Now is NOT THE TIME
to pledge yourself to change it. That slope gets slippery -- are you now going to ask yourself and your neighbors how that custom came to be? Try to
noodle out a way to make everybody in the village comfortable in their roles, at ease with every social situation? To celebrate the differences
between us, if you must, pledge to smile knowingly when you see the customs surface. If you must, be nice to everybody --- it will drive some of them
crazy.
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woody with a view
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| Quote: |
If you must, be nice to everybody --- it will drive some of them crazy.
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rts551
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It may depend on how assimilated you are into the local community. We have no problem with our Mexican neighbors or the term Gringo.
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Barry A.
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My first substantial trips to Mexico started in about 1953, and I have been going there on and off ever since. The word "gringo" has always been
around, and I never attached any negative meaning to it unless it was used that way, and you can tell when it is. Most of the time it isn't.
I use the word all the time, to both Mexicans and Gringos. and am proud to
be a GRINGO. (especially when in my sandals, but never with black or dark socks---always white or light gray, and usually the shorty type that don't
reach the ankle if not in long pants)
Shari---------GREAT post, and I think right on!!! Viva la differance!!!!
Barry
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
It's funny because one criticism I have heard alot is that many gringos dont give a rats burro about how they look or what other people think...which
really goes against the grain of mexican culture...they are a proud race who strive to look nice as it is very important to them what others think of
them. |
those uncouth gringos wear socks with sandals!
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woody with a view
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
It's funny because one criticism I have heard alot is that many gringos dont give a rats burro about how they look or what other people think...which
really goes against the grain of mexican culture...they are a proud race who strive to look nice as it is very important to them what others think of
them. |
those uncouth gringos wear socks with sandals! |
to hide the toe knuckle hair, not to mention those 1/4" thick toenails....
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wessongroup
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Gringo.. for a while ....
My wife's grandmother, would not talk to me for ten years..after we got married... she thought I was a "Gringo" and should not have married a Mexican
woman, simple as that.
After ten years, she saw that I was a hard working man, taking care of her little "girl" and we became very close.. when staying with us.. many years
later.. she would get up at 3 am to fix me breakfast, home made flour tortilla's, eggs with chorizo, and bean's.. before I left for work.. at 4 am (I
too worked in Ag)
The Lady was Mexican, born in Sonora Mexico in a family of 13-.. 8 sisters and 3 brothers.. they had to move from the ranch, when their father died
sometime around 1928 and Mama Goya could not take care of the place. They moved to Tijuana and gradually came across and found work in Agriculture..
either growing or in the produce market in downtown Los Angeles.
If one looks back at the history and what has happened to the Mexican people thru actions of the United States.. is there any wonder that a lot feel
the way they do... know I would have some problems..
I thank those who I come in contact with (Mexicans) for being to nice to me... I know they don't get the same once on the other side of the border...
that is a fact...
[Edited on 5-3-2010 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 5-3-2010 by wessongroup]
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
GREAT post Shari. that really helps explain a lot of what one might consider being given the cold shoulder by a local.
as for the word "gringo", i feel like i'm being called a ni*ger if a mexican calls me "hey gringo!" sorta like me saying "hey bean#r!" it could be my
lack of understanding who/what is trying to be communicated but that's just how i feel about it.
i could be wrong!
[Edited on 5-2-2010 by woody in ob] |
There is more to a word than just the translation. There is inflection, context, body language and peer or colloquial usage. Some or all come to play
in different instances.
Woody, I have never been addressed as "hey gringo!" That does sound like it would carry a negative connotation. I wouldn't like it.
In my experience, I have only heard "gringo" used as a reference in the third person. Mexicans also refer to blacks as Negros, Negrito or Negrita
too. In the U.S. that would be politically incorrect, but is acceptable in Mexico and is not intended as a racial slur.
On the other hand, while hanging out or working with good Mexican friends I am called many obscene or insulting names. They do it with each other too.
They do that if you are a friend and they truly like you. You can feel the acceptance and the accompanying laughter is genuine. It is just friends
goofing around.  
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rts551
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Wessongroup. Right on
I grew in southern California where in the 4th grade they finally "let" the Mexican farm worker kids go to school. We have a long history of
exploitation that many people either forget (conveniently) or never knew.
The so called expats or tourist that are in Mexico or visiting and complain about the lack of English is beyond me. Worried abut the term Gringo?
They would be better off learning the language of the country they visit instead of giving five stars to Bed and Breakfasts that speak English and
make them feel so comfortable..
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shari
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this topic of the word Gringo really gets my goat....please please please believe me that when our friends and family (who LOVE many gringos) use the
word gringo...for example..."como se llama los gringos que viven en la casa en la playa?" or "cuando viene el gringo que tiene el carro rojo?" or que
agarraron los gringos cuando fueron a pescar? etc etc...it is JUST a word because they dont know your names...kinda like...what were the peoples name
who.... they do not mean it in any kind of derogatory way...do I have to put this in capitals and BOLD letters to get people to understand when
mexicans refer to gringos...it's just a word...not an insult.
I hated it for years but it sure doesnt phase me now because I truly understand it is not meant to be insulting in any way...unless of course someone
uses it with venomous intent...P-nche gringo puto culo...then it's obvious it is meant to be nasty.
And I dont think it's just in our village where it is used widely as a mere descriptive adjective with no mal intent.
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rts551
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At a race some one said
"Mirar el P-nche Gringuito Loco. Él es muy rápido It was said as a compliment and the name stuck (although it embarrasses him sometimes).
Now the town all has t-shirts with you guessed it.
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
this topic of the word Gringo really gets my goat....please please please believe me that when our friends and family (who LOVE many gringos) use the
word gringo...for example..."como se llama los gringos que viven en la casa en la playa?" or "cuando viene el gringo que tiene el carro rojo?" or que
agarraron los gringos cuando fueron a pescar? etc etc...it is JUST a word because they dont know your names...kinda like...what were the peoples name
who.... they do not mean it in any kind of derogatory way...do I have to put this in capitals and BOLD letters to get people to understand when
mexicans refer to gringos...it's just a word...not an insult.
I hated it for years but it sure doesnt phase me now because I truly understand it is not meant to be insulting in any way...unless of course someone
uses it with venomous intent...P-nche gringo puto culo...then it's obvious it is meant to be nasty.
And I dont think it's just in our village where it is used widely as a mere descriptive adjective with no mal intent. |
Shari,
You and I are saying the same thing. I believe you.
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