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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Talked to my lawyer, he says each state, municipality, has its own traffic laws that have to be enforced. In short, this law does not protect you at
all. |
And my attorney tells me that if your vehicle is attached to your FM then state or local authorities have zero jurisdiction. Unless your
vehicle is involved in an accident, the only authority that has the right to even question you about its status is migra.
And for those who would argue that this only applies to the mainland:
I had a vehicle listed on my FM3 for several years...In Rosarito.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by Dave] |
Good luck with that lol!
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Well, here is the issue in a nutshell. I have an older vehicle that I drive only in Baja and since I do not keep insurance current from the US, I can
not get registration in the state where I keep an address. I guess I could pay the insurance, get the car registered, and then drop insurance, but in
Colorado you need to have a current emissions sticker, which is a little hard to get down here.
So, if I can drive the car for a few years, and try to use the Articulo 106 to get me by, can that truly be any worse than doing the ONAPAFFA
registration?
Also, since I do not drive the car to La Paz or any of the big cities, I think the last registration, and a copy of 106 may work just fine and I
just hope that Jesse's lawyer never comes this far north.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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got one too... however I spent the money for the tags and insurance... in California... it's not THAT much... insurance through costco for a junker
drive down here is adequate... if they want to through me in jail over a fender bender .... so be it.. but, think that is really remote.. once the
injured parts finds I don't have deep pockets.. they can get their car fixed and their cuts and bruisers ..... but, as for hitting the jackpot..
nada... no go.. won't happen here... with me... plus I go really slow...
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19934
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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can you imagine the uproar if a bunch of immigrants in US were using a chat board to discuss legal loopholes to laws in US requiring people to carry
car insurance and keep cars registered?
i think if you are driving around mexico in cars that are for all intents and purposes imported (but still carrying US tags), and you are driving
around without valid registration of vehicle, they should be able to sting you for some violation of law, if not a violation of common sense and moral
law.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Gnukid, you are going to have to rent a hall. I know you are a champion of the people and a great public speaker. You are going to have to round us
all up, take as much time as necessary and teach us how to speak to Mexican authority. It's obvious you are the king, know all the nuances -- you'll
have to teach us about when to look forceful, when to remain silent, when to whip out our special papers. That particular lecture, in person and in
depth will be of great help to me personally and I will feel a lot more confident about picking up my friends at the airport (or dropping them off) as
the federales have that staked out and are using the POE laws and authorities there which they don't enjoy on the highways and byways. Consider us all
freshmen when you set up your presentation.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
can you imagine the uproar if a bunch of immigrants in US were using a chat board to discuss legal loopholes to laws in US requiring people to carry
car insurance and keep cars registered?
i think if you are driving around mexico in cars that are for all intents and purposes imported (but still carrying US tags), and you are driving
around without valid registration of vehicle, they should be able to sting you for some violation of law, if not a violation of common sense and moral
law. |
goat we agree on this one... now how about that...
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
can you imagine the uproar if a bunch of immigrants in US were using a chat board to discuss legal loopholes to laws in US requiring people to carry
car insurance and keep cars registered?
i think if you are driving around mexico in cars that are for all intents and purposes imported (but still carrying US tags), and you are driving
around without valid registration of vehicle, they should be able to sting you for some violation of law, if not a violation of common sense and moral
law. |
Perhaps you misunderstand, this is not a discussion of loopholes, its a discussion about the law as it written. I certainly do not encourage anyone to
circumvent the law. The issue at hand is perhaps much different for those who live in the farthest reaches of Baja California Sur than it is for Baja
regions to the north. I have often felt the discussions of these two regions are so different it makes no sense to discuss them in the same context,
which is what leads to so much misunderstanding and apparent discontent here.
For example, if a visitor to Baja held a valid a FM-2 visa and was perhaps a senior retired and had gone to a Bahia Asuncion with all valid and legal
documents and vehicle in October and while there was incapacitated and under care of his family, while subsequently his California Registration was
due in Jan and consequently expired, while he in fact had paid the fees, yet failed to receive his sticker at his remote address, he, according to
Mexicos Customs law had fulfilled his obligation under Articulo 106, IV, he or his family would therefore have the legal right to return in the
vehicle to California at a later date in the vehicle, in order to receive his sticker.
The reasons for this justification are obvious and a far cry from the nefarious nature which you imply. These laws are somewhat consistent across
countries and regions and are meant to support those who follow the law's intent.
It's unfortunate that our fair community is so often misguided by negativity from seniors who apparently couldn't tell the difference from law abiding
citizens versus outright criminality.
As a younger traveler I often find these foul minded seniors in camper parks and while I encourage them to get out and see the world and interact, as
well as mind their diet to ensure a positive outlook, one can not meet them all. I wish you the best viejito, get out and enjoy the day-harumph.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]
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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gnukid, you are going to have to rent a hall. I know you are a champion of the people and a great public speaker. You are going to have to round us
all up, take as much time as necessary and teach us how to speak to Mexican authority. It's obvious you are the king, know all the nuances -- you'll
have to teach us about when to look forceful, when to remain silent, when to whip out our special papers. That particular lecture, in person and in
depth will be of great help to me personally and I will feel a lot more confident about picking up my friends at the airport (or dropping them off) as
the federales have that staked out and are using the POE laws and authorities there which they don't enjoy on the highways and byways. Consider us all
freshmen when you set up your presentation. |
Kid consider charging a 100 peso admission. I'd buy a ticket!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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You would pay? Makes my point.
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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
You would pay? Makes my point. |
What can you say I'm on the Frosh/Soph team.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
goat we agree on this one... now how about that... |
I understand from your post wessongroup, that you find it more suitable that Ministerial Police officers who find a senior fellow and his wife parked
at the beach with a registration sticker days or weeks out of date, should without question be arrested and taken to remote police stations, and held
in prison with their car impounded until such time that they can pay $400 or $1000 for their release? Or worse?
I find your interpretation to be misguided and more likely either you fail to understand the circumstances which allow and encourage false arrest,
kidnapping, extortion and which threaten the very well being of our compatriots here and threaten the only remaining economy of Baja-tourism by
threatening the tourists inappropriately.
Now, in the words of my grandmother which I hope you can correctly interpret, "you crazy old timers ought to get your head examined"!
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Just Obey the Law and Register your Vehicle
Or, Pay the consequences for not doing so.
I'm amazed at those who have a stated "Moral" objection to paying Mordida when they are Caught, BUT will go to extraordinary measures like this to
save a few bucks or a little hassle and avoid paying valid fees to the U.S., Mexico or both.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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In California we get a reg sticker for one year, nearing expiration one can only apply for renewal within a close time frame, I think its 60 days, so
even if you apply in advance by mail or online correctly they may respond with a question as often occurs, and then they must send you your sticker.
This creates a difficult case for those with an expiration which occurs in the preceeding month of their registration during their Baja visit if their
trip is extended either as planned or otherwise by changing circumstances.
The pueblos of BCS are quite a distance from many travelers home city where registration occurs, and where in most cases a reg sticker would be sent.
So, it may occur, often that while a person is actually legal, paid, and registered their sticker may not be applied to their vehicle.
It is in these cases and similar ones where the right to return is clarified and supported by Mexican Federal Aduana Law by articulo 106, IV where the
vehcicle was legal on entry and is still otherwise legal as a temporary import except for the foreign sticker where the primary vehicle owner's
immigration is valid and contiguous from the time of entry, with respect to an FM2 or FM3.
Why some of you (Goat, Bill, and Wesson) would claim a higher power and question this clearly written law and its application to revoke that authority
is beyond me? While in fact an argument could be made that seniors who question and disagree Mexican Customs Laws threaten the well being of the
community.
This case, is an example of a real problem on Baja Nomad, bad info from people who do not understand the region, the law or the circumstances and a
plethora of senior posting moments which undermine the general informative nature of the site which would otherwise serve well meaning travelers.
What's worse, is instead of us, as a group, working to improve the community, gathering to clean beaches, focusing on recycling, improving sewage
treatment and reducing our negative impact, which would be worthwhile, instead we have a peanut gallery of misguided naysayers who by their lack of
knowledge would gladly put others at risk of illegal and unfair incarceration.
Again this same case can be made for other possessions in some cases from reading article 106 and one should be aware of the law and how it applies to
you.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Talked to my lawyer, he says each state, municipality, has its own traffic laws that have to be enforced. In short, this law does not protect you at
all. |
And my attorney tells me that if your vehicle is attached to your FM then state or local authorities have zero jurisdiction. Unless your
vehicle is involved in an accident, the only authority that has the right to even question you about its status is migra.
And for those who would argue that this only applies to the mainland:
I had a vehicle listed on my FM3 for several years...In Rosarito.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by Dave] |
Dave is far more correct based on my experience. With due respect to Jesse you could not ave ever been in a situation where the law would apply to you
in this case nor would any other Mexican National so you would have never witnessed the high tension moments of its application where necessary.
I have had the opportunity to travel with diplomats state of foreign nations who have made these laws clear to me with reference to the legal council,
and I have been in the circumstances where this applies.
The cops who unfairly hassle you and make false charges are clearly bluffing-they have no such authority in this case, why any of you would claim
their position is valid and to be respected is absurd, they will fold every time when you stand up for yourself.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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R U Gnukidding ?
What a Crock.
To begin with, there is a clear lack of gnureading comprehension. Nothing I've said questions the law. I could care less WHAT the law says or HOW it
is interpreted.
I was addressing this seeming obsession by Gringos to go to lengths to figure out some way they can save a few bucks.
All I can say about gnu and his gnubian fellows is that I've been registering multiple vehicles in California online for as long as it has been
available, including when there was a fee for doing so. I have NEVER had a question or any other problem which delayed the
registration and I would doubt it is an actual problem.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Bill me too, how do you get your sticker delivered to you when you are in a pueblo 800 miles south of the border?
If it takes 3 weeks to process the reg typically, a BCS vacation is at least 2 weeks, what do you do when the overlap puts you in a case where you are
legal but the sticker isn't in your hand? Do you include a copy of article 106 with your old reg and ask to continue or to go silently to a remote
mexican jail cell with vehicle impounded? If you prefer the jail, explain why?
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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I have a SINDICATURA SOS sticker on my windshield and another one with TJ and Ensenada phone numbers glued on the back of my DL. When ever I'm stopped
I hand it to cop with that side up. SINDICATURA also provides complaint form to report attempted mordida, etc.
SINDICATURA is an organization that you can join for $25.00 that will get you a SOS sticker for your car if you are driving in Mexico, as well as a
few other packet items. The sticker loudly announces to the Mexican cops and officials that you are a member of Support Our Sindicatura. The
Sindicatura is a Mexican government organization whose purpose is to fight corruption among the police and other public officials. So you put one of
these stickers on your car or truck and, reportedly, the shake-down cops will leave you alone. With “mordida” prices experiencing rapid inflation in
recent years (basically, whatever you have in your wallet), the $25.00 sticker is a smart investment. You can request a packet by writing to: Support
of Sindicatura, 7349 Millikin Avenue #140-234, Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730. Or email sosindicatura@hotmail.com
Bob Durrell
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19934
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
In California we get a reg sticker for one year, nearing expiration one can only apply for renewal within a close time frame, I think its 60 days, so
even if you apply in advance by mail or online correctly they may respond with a question as often occurs, and then they must send you your sticker.
This creates a difficult case for those with an expiration which occurs in the preceeding month of their registration during their Baja visit if their
trip is extended either as planned or otherwise by changing circumstances.
The pueblos of BCS are quite a distance from many travelers home city where registration occurs, and where in most cases a reg sticker would be sent.
So, it may occur, often that while a person is actually legal, paid, and registered their sticker may not be applied to their vehicle.
It is in these cases and similar ones where the right to return is clarified and supported by Mexican Federal Aduana Law by articulo 106, IV where the
vehcicle was legal on entry and is still otherwise legal as a temporary import except for the foreign sticker where the primary vehicle owner's
immigration is valid and contiguous from the time of entry, with respect to an FM2 or FM3.
Why some of you (Goat, Bill, and Wesson) would claim a higher power and question this clearly written law and its application to revoke that authority
is beyond me? While in fact an argument could be made that seniors who question and disagree Mexican Customs Laws threaten the well being of the
community.
This case, is an example of a real problem on Baja Nomad, bad info from people who do not understand the region, the law or the circumstances and a
plethora of senior posting moments which undermine the general informative nature of the site which would otherwise serve well meaning travelers.
What's worse, is instead of us, as a group, working to improve the community, gathering to clean beaches, focusing on recycling, improving sewage
treatment and reducing our negative impact, which would be worthwhile, instead we have a peanut gallery of misguided naysayers who by their lack of
knowledge would gladly put others at risk of illegal and unfair incarceration.
Again this same case can be made for other possessions in some cases from reading article 106 and one should be aware of the law and how it applies to
you.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid] |
be honest, newkid, the issue is not talking about tourists spending a few weeks in mex when their plates expire. the issue is about people who leave
US cars in mexico for several years, and likely never planning to take car back to states
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tjBill
Senior Nomad
Posts: 516
Registered: 10-6-2007
Location: Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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About 1/3 of cars in TJ are registered in the US. Another large percentage have expired US plates. Their owners find it cheaper to pay an occasional
bribe to a policeman than pay for the registration.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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Goat, I am sorry that you world view is a negative one, there are more good and honest people than not, perhaps that something to consider. Again, I
would encourage you eat healthy foods, vegetables, and a diverse nutritional diet. It has been discovered that most cases of depression are caused by
chemical imbalance due to poor diet. Alcohol also is a depressant and a toxin.
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