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JESSE
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Posts: 3370
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Talked to my lawyer, he says each state, municipality, has its own traffic laws that have to be enforced. In short, this law does not protect you at
all. |
And my attorney tells me that if your vehicle is attached to your FM then state or local authorities have zero jurisdiction. Unless your
vehicle is involved in an accident, the only authority that has the right to even question you about its status is migra.
And for those who would argue that this only applies to the mainland:
I had a vehicle listed on my FM3 for several years...In Rosarito.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by Dave] |
Dave is far more correct based on my experience. With due respect to Jesse you could not ave ever been in a situation where the law would apply to you
in this case nor would any other Mexican National so you would have never witnessed the high tension moments of its application where necessary.
I have had the opportunity to travel with diplomats state of foreign nations who have made these laws clear to me with reference to the legal council,
and I have been in the circumstances where this applies.
The cops who unfairly hassle you and make false charges are clearly bluffing-they have no such authority in this case, why any of you would claim
their position is valid and to be respected is absurd, they will fold every time when you stand up for yourself.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid] |
The subchief of police of La Paz just told me that its only someones interpretation of the law, and it does not mean is correct. They will stop you,
and they will give you a ticket. If you want to fight the ticket based on this particular argument, you can do that, but it won't get you out of a
fine.
I am not an expert on this, i am just giving you extra info to take into consideration if your going to go ahead and rely on this interpretation of
the law.
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gnukid
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Posts: 4411
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Which chief? The Commandante of Transito? Was it either Juan Carlos or Celso? Was it a Malecon Tourist Chief, Antonio? Who are you referencing?
Certainly the chief is not in the position of threatening and extorting visitors for on the spot fines in the area of $400 which is what we are
defending ourselves against.
Though yes you point out the divisions of authority of La Paz are not coordinated nor consistent. In the case we refer to, if a person properly
communicated their legal position and were ticketed, that would be fine. The MP will not ticket when they threaten on the spot mordida. With ticket in
hand one would arrive at the Transito and go to the window to make your case before the judge and it would be dismissed or reduced to a reasonable
level, likely 30 pesos. If not one would visit the Federal office for support and get an order to follow the federal law.
Again, Jesse, you would never do this, nor ever have you been in the circumstance of being illegally incarcerated or threatened with unrealistic and
absurd fines and having your car impounded or burned by the MP, which would require you to defend yourself.
Please, you would object to me explaining to you what happens to a Mexican national in equally odd circumstances.
Ad please do not fault me for knowing the law and responding in a calm reasonable manner to unreasonable threats to my family and well being.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]
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JESSE
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Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Which chief? The Commandante of Transito? Was it either Juan Carlos or Celso? Was it a Malecon Tourist Chief, Antonio? Who are you referencing?
Certainly the chief is not in the position of threatening and extorting visitors for on the spot fines in the area of $400 which is what we are
defending ourselves against.
Though yes you point out the divisions of authority of La Paz are not coordinated nor consistent. In the case we refer to, if a person properly
communicated their legal position and were ticketed, that would be fine. The MP will not ticket when they threaten on the spot mordida. With ticket in
hand one would arrive at the Transito and go to the window to make your case before the judge and it would be dismissed or reduced to a reasonable
level, likely 30 pesos. If not one would visit the Federal office for support and get an order to follow the federal law.
Again, Jesse, you would never do this, nor ever have you been in the circumstance of being illegally incarcerated or threatened with unrealistic and
absurd fines and having your car impounded or burned by the MP, which would require you to defend yourself.
Please, you would object to me explaining to you what happens to a Mexican national in equally odd circumstances.
Ad please do not fault me for knowing the law and responding in a calm reasonable manner to unreasonable threats to my family and well being.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid] |
Lic Frine Cota Zuņiga, the boss of all of those guys you mentioned, and the lawyer in charge of all matters concerning the La Paz PD.
All you have is an interpretation of the law, if it gets some people out of trouble, fine with me, but i wouldn't accept it as fact.
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wessongroup
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Posts: 21152
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Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
goat we agree on this one... now how about that... |
I understand from your post wessongroup, that you find it more suitable that Ministerial Police officers who find a senior fellow and his wife parked
at the beach with a registration sticker days or weeks out of date, should without question be arrested and taken to remote police stations, and held
in prison with their car impounded until such time that they can pay $400 or $1000 for their release? Or worse?
I find your interpretation to be misguided and more likely either you fail to understand the circumstances which allow and encourage false arrest,
kidnapping, extortion and which threaten the very well being of our compatriots here and threaten the only remaining economy of Baja-tourism by
threatening the tourists inappropriately.
Now, in the words of my grandmother which I hope you can correctly interpret, "you crazy old timers ought to get your head examined"!
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What you "understand" my post to goat to be, is not up for a restatement, and for you to characterize as you find convenient..
The statement is that I agreed with goat on one post.. my previous post states that I have one too, (an old car which I keep down here in Baja) but
that I keep the registration current in California along with insurance in both the United States and Mexico... we have an FM2.. which is all we need
at this point in time..
As for the "law"... that appears to be written "State by State" per Jesse... and of course will be interpreted differently by each Municipality and
then differently within each Municipality due to any number of conditions.. which one would expect..
With that in mind.. I would prefer to error on the side of my ease of mind and just have the car properly registered and currently insured and with
proof in the glove box..
In that manner... this entire discussion and finger pointing does not occur. I have been stopped and my current registration and insurance verified on
site by the Police Officers in one case and the Army in another, in Mexico.. and we have SENTRI on both vehicles we have in Mexico.. along with
registration and insurance.. just thought it would be a lot easier, to carry my Passport and FM3 with me at all times ... in Mexico and now in the
United States... plus my new passport has a chip in it so they know where I am most of the time...
One can do what they wish.. I prefer to go my route... as for Granny, God bless... but, lets see what happens to HER if she is stopped driving her
vehicle without current registration and proof of insurance while driving in the United States.. believe traffic infractions are classified as
misdemeanors, have not been associated with Traffic Enforcement in a very long while .... any others join in on current penalties for driving in the
Untied States..... with invalid registration, and no insurance coverage, and lets throw in being in the States on a visa from Mexico.. how would it be
treated...
Class A Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class A misdemeanor may include a fine up to $10,000, or imprisonment for up to 9 months, or both; however, for a repeat offender,
the term of imprisonment may increase up to 2 years.
Class B Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class B misdemeanor may include a fine up to $1,000, or imprisonment for up to 90 days, or both; however, for a repeat offender, the
term of imprisonment increase up to 2 years.
Class C Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class C misdemeanor may include a fine up to $500, or imprisonment for up to 30 days, or both; however, for a repeat offender, the
term of imprisonment increase up to 2 years.
Thats from the States, simple Google.. seems about right .. not sure on Mexico...
And the word picture of an old couple on the beach enjoying a sunset... and then being thrown against their car... spread eagle, with guns drawn..
cuffs slapped on... Please...
Would offer that may be true, but find it really hard to imagine it to be an on going policy by most of the local police.. if so.. how long would it
take for the word to get out... not long one would think.
Would also offer that the position of tell the arresting police officer what the law is.... yeah, why don't you tell him he needs to shine his shoes, shave a
little closer and his gig line isn't straight ...
Have at big guy... every one has their approach to problem solving... and reading "posts"....
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by wessongroup]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Which chief? The Commandante of Transito? Was it either Juan Carlos or Celso? Was it a Malecon Tourist Chief, Antonio? Who are you referencing?
Certainly the chief is not in the position of threatening and extorting visitors for on the spot fines in the area of $400 which is what we are
defending ourselves against.
Though yes you point out the divisions of authority of La Paz are not coordinated nor consistent. In the case we refer to, if a person properly
communicated their legal position and were ticketed, that would be fine. The MP will not ticket when they threaten on the spot mordida. With ticket in
hand one would arrive at the Transito and go to the window to make your case before the judge and it would be dismissed or reduced to a reasonable
level, likely 30 pesos. If not one would visit the Federal office for support and get an order to follow the federal law.
Again, Jesse, you would never do this, nor ever have you been in the circumstance of being illegally incarcerated or threatened with unrealistic and
absurd fines and having your car impounded or burned by the MP, which would require you to defend yourself.
Please, you would object to me explaining to you what happens to a Mexican national in equally odd circumstances.
Ad please do not fault me for knowing the law and responding in a calm reasonable manner to unreasonable threats to my family and well being.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid] |
Lic Frine Cota Zuņiga, the boss of all of those guys you mentioned, and the lawyer in charge of all matters concerning the La Paz PD.
All you have is an interpretation of the law, if it gets some people out of trouble, fine with me, but i wouldn't accept it as fact.
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That's awesome you checked with Lic. Zuniga. I appreciate that, isn't the Procurador's interpretation is the one which matters to Zuniga? I
specifically referenced the law as it appears in its current iteration on the government site which states that the vehicle will remain a legal
vehicle during the period of your legal status as we 've discussed. It's the Federal Aduana Law Articulo 106 IV, if you wish to believe otherwise that
is fine, but why are you arguing with me about a well known law which affects millions of people and is respected throughout the country except
perhaps by you, why? This is in response to combating MP extortion of extended visitors?
I think many are missing the point, we want law and order, we want vehicles and drivers who are not current to be off the road. We as a group
appreciate an attempt by Ministerial Police to do the job.
What is not okay, is certain officers who attempt to demand fines and worse kidnap people, impound vehicles and bring them to remote police stations
to extort them for large amounts of money as occurs to expats who don't seem to understand the reasonable limits of the law-apparently.
So in response to this circumstance, in the case where I have been accosted or others, I refer to the law which does apply in order to defuse the
situation.
Now, Jesse it would be great if people could call you when they are being held in the little casitas for their alleged offenses, and you would come
and insist a ticket be given which referenced actual law, then the person could pay the reasonable fine. But Jesse, you do not offer that service. On
the other hand, my friends do need help in these circumstances and they do not know what to do or say so I do go when called and I do reference the
law and they are released with an apology in every case so far, I wonder why?
I related the types of responses which do work, likely similar to your responses, namely that you would identify yourself with your documentation, for
example in our case a copy of our FM2 or FM3 which does make a difference in the interpretation of the law at some point.
In discussing these issues it must be an advantage to know the law, as opposed to making incendiary statements as do so many. I happen to know the
law, I also do not break the law and my life is quite easy for that reason. But many here do not know the law and they pay false fines in the many
hundreds to thousands of dollars and that is wrong though they do not know how else to respond.
My advice to you who are accosted is to defend yourself by being prepared and demonstrate your documentation. Politely refuse to pay on the spot fines
directly to police or anyone because that would clearly be against the law and a criminal offense which actually could be prosecuted.
Now we could take this further and describe more aspects of the law, surprisingly that doesn't seem to be of interest to many of you but it should.
Now what this thread is really about is extortion, not visitors who are eagerly breaking the law.
Just as an added note, if you do get an onapafa sticker, it is a local municipal sticker and if you drive into the Federal offices near Soriana to pay
taxes or perhaps into Pichilingue and park inside the port authority your car could nad likely would be impounded for circumventing Federal law. They
do this all the time.
Furthermore, while Federal Military are present throughout La Paz, they also ignore many crimes while intervening in others as is their choice.
Demonstrating the division of power, and interpretation, an altercation occurred reportedly in the last weeks where Military confronted Ministerial
Police for illegal activity and a police man who was named Juan Carlos was shot and subsequently disappeared. We also know that there are serious
problems with failures to respect the law throughout many divisions of the enforcement of law and these failures are being confronted by both citizens
and in many cases opposing forces of enforcement.
Please do not blame me for any of this, I have never been given a ticket for illegal behavior in Mexico, I am a legal person and I only responding to
support those who have been or will be targeted for extortion.
Finally, I remind you that corruption will always exist but those criminals who pursue illegal behavior will always back down in fear if you stand up
for yourself, remind them of the law as it exists and refuse to pay mordida on the spot. And if you do break the law, accept the ticket and be on your
way to pay it immediately.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
goat we agree on this one... now how about that... |
I understand from your post wessongroup, that you find it more suitable that Ministerial Police officers who find a senior fellow and his wife parked
at the beach with a registration sticker days or weeks out of date, should without question be arrested and taken to remote police stations, and held
in prison with their car impounded until such time that they can pay $400 or $1000 for their release? Or worse?
I find your interpretation to be misguided and more likely either you fail to understand the circumstances which allow and encourage false arrest,
kidnapping, extortion and which threaten the very well being of our compatriots here and threaten the only remaining economy of Baja-tourism by
threatening the tourists inappropriately.
Now, in the words of my grandmother which I hope you can correctly interpret, "you crazy old timers ought to get your head examined"!
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What you "understand" my post to goat to be, is not up for a restatement, and for you to characterize as you find convenient..
The statement is that I agreed with goat on one post.. my previous post states that I have one too, (an old car which I keep down here in Baja) but
that I keep the registration current in California along with insurance in both the United States and Mexico... we have an FM2.. which is all we need
at this point in time..
As for the "law"... that appears to be written "State by State" per Jesse... and of course will be interpreted differently by each Municipality and
then differently within each Municipality due to any number of conditions.. which one would expect..
With that in mind.. I would prefer to error on the side of my ease of mind and just have the car properly registered and currently insured and with
proof in the glove box..
In that manner... this entire discussion and finger pointing does not occur. I have been stopped and my current registration and insurance verified on
site by the Police Officers in one case and the Army in another, in Mexico.. and we have SENTRI on both vehicles we have in Mexico.. along with
registration and insurance.. just thought it would be a lot easier, to carry my Passport and FM3 with me at all times ... in Mexico and now in the
United States... plus my new passport has a chip in it so they know where I am most of the time...
One can do what they wish.. I prefer to go my route... as for Granny, God bless... but, lets see what happens to HER if she is stopped driving her
vehicle without current registration and proof of insurance while driving in the United States.. believe traffic infractions are classified as
misdemeanors, have not been associated with Traffic Enforcement in a very long while .... any others join in on current penalties for driving in the
Untied States..... with invalid registration, and no insurance coverage, and lets throw in being in the States on a visa from Mexico.. how would it be
treated...
Class A Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class A misdemeanor may include a fine up to $10,000, or imprisonment for up to 9 months, or both; however, for a repeat offender,
the term of imprisonment may increase up to 2 years.
Class B Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class B misdemeanor may include a fine up to $1,000, or imprisonment for up to 90 days, or both; however, for a repeat offender, the
term of imprisonment increase up to 2 years.
Class C Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class C misdemeanor may include a fine up to $500, or imprisonment for up to 30 days, or both; however, for a repeat offender, the
term of imprisonment increase up to 2 years.
Thats from the States, simple Google.. seems about right .. not sure on Mexico...
And the word picture of an old couple on the beach enjoying a sunset... and then being thrown against their car... spread eagle, with guns drawn..
cuffs slapped on... Please...
Would offer that may be true, but find it really hard to imagine it to be an on going policy by most of the local police.. if so.. how long would it
take for the word to get out... not long one would think.
Would also offer that the position of tell the arresting police officer what the law is.... yeah, why don't you tell him he needs to shine his shoes, shave a
little closer and his gig line isn't straight ...
Have at big guy... every one has their approach to problem solving... and reading "posts"....
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by wessongroup] |
Referencing California law as it applies to Californians is not relevant, what would be a more accurate comparison is a new arrival to the USA who is
a foreigner with a foreign plated vehicle. Do you know the law in that case as is relevant, yep, the individual has a period of time following his
arrival to become legal and any ticket is actually a warning otherwise known as a fix it with no actual fine due unless the individual fails to
comply. I believe the time frame is ten days or two weeks- I don't recall the specific period. But my point should be clear to you.
Furthermore notice the number of foreigners with out of date registration who are not ticketed at all in California, because they have a legal right
to a period of time.
Lastly, in reference to explaining the law to police, we were discussing demonstrating the law to Municipal transit police who are not quite so well
versed in their law as California officers are comparatively. In either case, I wonder why I have not received a ticket in nearly a lifetime but I am
periodically pulled over and questioned yet you are certain that my clearly written advice is of no help?
I will gladly accept a ticket for an infraction. Somehow when I explain the law as it is to a CHP and tell them I understand they could site me
specifically where I broke the law, they have always sent me on my way sans ticket, likely because I am respectful and honest, as I urge you all to
be. Yes, I have many tools to this game and I would gladly share them, but it seems few will listen, so be it.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Just as a tip, here's a tool that always works anywhere when you get pulled over, change the subject to food, the police will always forget what he
was doing.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Which chief? The Commandante of Transito? Was it either Juan Carlos or Celso? Was it a Malecon Tourist Chief, Antonio? Who are you referencing?
Certainly the chief is not in the position of threatening and extorting visitors for on the spot fines in the area of $400 which is what we are
defending ourselves against.
Though yes you point out the divisions of authority of La Paz are not coordinated nor consistent. In the case we refer to, if a person properly
communicated their legal position and were ticketed, that would be fine. The MP will not ticket when they threaten on the spot mordida. With ticket in
hand one would arrive at the Transito and go to the window to make your case before the judge and it would be dismissed or reduced to a reasonable
level, likely 30 pesos. If not one would visit the Federal office for support and get an order to follow the federal law.
Again, Jesse, you would never do this, nor ever have you been in the circumstance of being illegally incarcerated or threatened with unrealistic and
absurd fines and having your car impounded or burned by the MP, which would require you to defend yourself.
Please, you would object to me explaining to you what happens to a Mexican national in equally odd circumstances.
Ad please do not fault me for knowing the law and responding in a calm reasonable manner to unreasonable threats to my family and well being.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid] |
Lic Frine Cota Zuņiga, the boss of all of those guys you mentioned, and the lawyer in charge of all matters concerning the La Paz PD.
All you have is an interpretation of the law, if it gets some people out of trouble, fine with me, but i wouldn't accept it as fact.
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why are you arguing with me about a well known law which affects millions of people and is respected throughout the country except perhaps by you,
why?
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid] |
I am not arguing with you, i am just relaying what the boss who is also a well known lawyer said, people are free to make their own informed desitions
based on the info provided.
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slimshady
Nomad
Posts: 291
Registered: 9-3-2008
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People tend to leave their heads at the border. We can all agree that we can not drive a vehicle anywhere in the USA without proper registration and
tags. However some of think that it is ok to drive around mexico without all the proper docs and tags just becuase it is mexico.
Some people do it because they feel that law only applies to the U.S. some will just pay the mordita, and some just want to save money.
Regardless since we Northern brothers stick out why would anybody want to give the cops any reason to pull us over and pay the mordita. Yet people
still complain about the corruption even though they are skirting the law themselves.
Not all traffic stops are illegal and paying the mordita is ten times better than paying any citation you would recieve in the U.S..
So either update your registration, register in South Dakota, or don't drive on public roads.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Who said that?
| Quote: | Originally posted by slimshady
However some of think that it is ok to drive around mexico without all the proper docs and tags just becuase it is mexico.
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It's not what I think. Mexican immigration told me it was the proper procedure. My car was plated in Oklahoma. At the time, the state required annual
inspection. You think I was gonna drive 3,000 miles each year to keep the tags current when Mexican immigration law said it wasn't necessary?
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
goat we agree on this one... now how about that... |
I understand from your post wessongroup, that you find it more suitable that Ministerial Police officers who find a senior fellow and his wife parked
at the beach with a registration sticker days or weeks out of date, should without question be arrested and taken to remote police stations, and held
in prison with their car impounded until such time that they can pay $400 or $1000 for their release? Or worse?
I find your interpretation to be misguided and more likely either you fail to understand the circumstances which allow and encourage false arrest,
kidnapping, extortion and which threaten the very well being of our compatriots here and threaten the only remaining economy of Baja-tourism by
threatening the tourists inappropriately.
Now, in the words of my grandmother which I hope you can correctly interpret, "you crazy old timers ought to get your head examined"!
|
What you "understand" my post to goat to be, is not up for a restatement, and for you to characterize as you find convenient..
The statement is that I agreed with goat on one post.. my previous post states that I have one too, (an old car which I keep down here in Baja) but
that I keep the registration current in California along with insurance in both the United States and Mexico... we have an FM2.. which is all we need
at this point in time..
As for the "law"... that appears to be written "State by State" per Jesse... and of course will be interpreted differently by each Municipality and
then differently within each Municipality due to any number of conditions.. which one would expect..
With that in mind.. I would prefer to error on the side of my ease of mind and just have the car properly registered and currently insured and with
proof in the glove box..
In that manner... this entire discussion and finger pointing does not occur. I have been stopped and my current registration and insurance verified on
site by the Police Officers in one case and the Army in another, in Mexico.. and we have SENTRI on both vehicles we have in Mexico.. along with
registration and insurance.. just thought it would be a lot easier, to carry my Passport and FM3 with me at all times ... in Mexico and now in the
United States... plus my new passport has a chip in it so they know where I am most of the time...
One can do what they wish.. I prefer to go my route... as for Granny, God bless... but, lets see what happens to HER if she is stopped driving her
vehicle without current registration and proof of insurance while driving in the United States.. believe traffic infractions are classified as
misdemeanors, have not been associated with Traffic Enforcement in a very long while .... any others join in on current penalties for driving in the
Untied States..... with invalid registration, and no insurance coverage, and lets throw in being in the States on a visa from Mexico.. how would it be
treated...
Class A Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class A misdemeanor may include a fine up to $10,000, or imprisonment for up to 9 months, or both; however, for a repeat offender,
the term of imprisonment may increase up to 2 years.
Class B Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class B misdemeanor may include a fine up to $1,000, or imprisonment for up to 90 days, or both; however, for a repeat offender, the
term of imprisonment increase up to 2 years.
Class C Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class C misdemeanor may include a fine up to $500, or imprisonment for up to 30 days, or both; however, for a repeat offender, the
term of imprisonment increase up to 2 years.
Thats from the States, simple Google.. seems about right .. not sure on Mexico...
And the word picture of an old couple on the beach enjoying a sunset... and then being thrown against their car... spread eagle, with guns drawn..
cuffs slapped on... Please...
Would offer that may be true, but find it really hard to imagine it to be an on going policy by most of the local police.. if so.. how long would it
take for the word to get out... not long one would think.
Would also offer that the position of tell the arresting police officer what the law is.... yeah, why don't you tell him he needs to shine his shoes, shave a
little closer and his gig line isn't straight ...
Have at big guy... every one has their approach to problem solving... and reading "posts"....
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by wessongroup] |
Referencing California law as it applies to Californians is not relevant, what would be a more accurate comparison is a new arrival to the USA who is
a foreigner with a foreign plated vehicle. Do you know the law in that case as is relevant, yep, the individual has a period of time following his
arrival to become legal and any ticket is actually a warning otherwise known as a fix it with no actual fine due unless the individual fails to
comply. I believe the time frame is ten days or two weeks- I don't recall the specific period. But my point should be clear to you.
Furthermore notice the number of foreigners with out of date registration who are not ticketed at all in California, because they have a legal right
to a period of time.
Lastly, in reference to explaining the law to police, we were discussing demonstrating the law to Municipal transit police who are not quite so well
versed in their law as California officers are comparatively. In either case, I wonder why I have not received a ticket in nearly a lifetime but I am
periodically pulled over and questioned yet you are certain that my clearly written advice is of no help?
I will gladly accept a ticket for an infraction. Somehow when I explain the law as it is to a CHP and tell them I understand they could site me
specifically where I broke the law, they have always sent me on my way sans ticket, likely because I am respectful and honest, as I urge you all to
be. Yes, I have many tools to this game and I would gladly share them, but it seems few will listen, so be it.
[Edited on 5-24-2010 by gnukid] |
You might want to have your Granny read over things before you post...
I did not supply California law.. (said it was a short Google for what is a misdomeanor) and I also asked the question, what would happen? to an
individual who was stopped in the United States.. I asked for individuals with Traffic Enforcement experience to help out... as I have not been
involved in Traffic Enforcement in a very long while...
As for how many, illegal drivers are in California.. had nothing to do with any point I made rather a rethorical statement about the issue as seen
from a potential driver in the United States driving without valid vehicle registration and proof of insurance.. and again, that was directed at your
Granny...
As to your approach, to help an ignorant Mexican police officer that "couldn't possibliy" understand something as complex as vehicle registration
requirements in his own country... shame on you ... I really don't think the Mexican people are as lame as all that... it is really pretty simple.. is
your car registered ? and do you have current proof insurance coverage? Please may I see it... not really that hard... and having need of a lawyer to
make sense out of this is like Obama talking about oil well leaks..
Gladly accept the ticket.. would hope so...... and guess we are just different in the way approach these situations ... never found it necessary to
"explain the law" to a Highway Patrol Officer in any State where I have been stopped ... they always seemed quite knowledgeable on it... Chapter and
verse...
Again.. one can handle the situation as one wants.. and see their are others posting with a more reasonable approach to this situation ... carry
current registration, and proof of insurance with you in your vehicle which you are driving and/or in control of...
I'm not a well know lawyer, but have the same suggestion... you can make your own informed decesion based on all available facts.. as it should be ...
Happy driving...
And slimshady.. ditto's also...
Funny how this is another reflection of what one shall have on their person when:
Someone is legally driving a motor vehicle in Mexico or the United States.. or should I use undocumented?
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gnukid
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Wessongroup, it seems you are having quite a different conversation than I thought I was having with you, I guess it's quite easy to be misunderstood
with electronic communication.
The conversation I was having is in regard to unreasonable extortion in Mexico.
have fun and good luck!
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wessongroup
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No worries... I would not want to undergo extortion.. here or anywhere.. on the same page with that one....
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gnukid
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Just to clarify for anyone who is completely confused:
There is a problem on occassion in Baja where police attempt to extort foreigners for outrageous amounts of money.
I referenced a packet of materials one should have on board which demonstrate you're legal which should help to avoid confusion. The packet includes,
copies of your dl, reg, fm-2 or fm-3, insurance, copy of article 106 section IV, sindacatura info and a simple sheet of questions about time, place
etc... Keep electronic copies.
I understand this is objectionable to many posters who conflate me suggesting having this packet as somehow wanting to get away with something
illegal.
I, repeat, encourage everyone to complete their reg, have a visa and insurance and dl and I encourage you to know the law, apparently very few do.
Good luck
[Edited on 5-25-2010 by gnukid]
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JESSE
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It appears we have another opinion, just talked to the head of Hacienda in town, and he agrees with Gnukid. So this is getting interesting and
confusing.
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Dave
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He agrees about what?
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
It appears we have another opinion, just talked to the head of Hacienda in town, and he agrees with Gnukid. So this is getting interesting and
confusing. |
And it shouldn't be confusing that any Mexican authority would interpret and/or enforce laws according to whim and profit. It seems to be
national sport. I don't know why the government even bothers to code them.
That said, IMO it's one of the attractions of living here. You pay for the right opinion and you can do anything.
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Marla Daily
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Goodness but what a floodgate was opened with my original post! We keep a car full-time at our home in Loreto, which has California plates, and is
registered every year in California for $5 as a "non-op." This status means the vehicle is registered, but it will not be operated, moved, towed or
left standing (parked) upon any California highway. We have Mexican insurance on the car, and by our interpretation of Article 106 we are within what
the Mexican law allows for the length of our FM2 and FM3 visas. The car we drive back and forth to Loreto is kept registered in California and is
insured both in California as well as in Mexico. Pretty simple.
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gnukid
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Hi Jesse,
Please do not put me in the middle of Zuniga and the Hacienda as having an opinion. I do not. I just follow the law printed on the government web
sites which is what I have stated here.
This is in response to the problem with extortion of mordida on the spot by MP under threat of kidnapping and incarceration for falsified charges.
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ncampion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
Goodness but what a floodgate was opened with my original post! We keep a car full-time at our home in Loreto, which has California plates, and is
registered every year in California for $5 as a "non-op." This status means the vehicle is registered, but it will not be operated, moved, towed or
left standing (parked) upon any California highway. We have Mexican insurance on the car, and by our interpretation of Article 106 we are within what
the Mexican law allows for the length of our FM2 and FM3 visas. |
To get Mexican insurance, you must have US insurance. Can you get US insurance on a "non-op" vehicle???
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slimshady
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Do you get tags too for the current year? California does not make it easy to keep vehicles in Mexico, thats why I registered it in another state
where I pay a third of the cost and no dam smog test every two years. It's Cal's loss.
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