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24baja
Senior Nomad
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Location: Grants Pass Oregon/Bahia de Los Angeles
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Mood: Wishing we were in BOLA
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As did we. We will never forget and that day still brings tears to my eyes, I relive the horror everytime I see the photos or video. Connie &
Brett
| Quote: | Originally posted by dizzyspots
lost 343 of my brother firefighters
RIP and Godspeed
we WILL rememember AND learn! |
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
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This to appear in tomorrow's Washington Post. By Ted Koppel.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09...
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
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Bajahowodd, I have seen Priest, Ministers and Rabbi stand up and speak out when they see that some wrong is or has been done badly to those in their
communities. However, I have not seen one of these Iman in New York or anywhere else go on record saying how much of what these terrorists are doing
are so wrong. If you know of just one then I stand corrected but I sure know of none! Remembering Those That Were Killed! Take Care and Travel Safe
bajafun777
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baitcast
Super Nomad
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Location: kingman AZ.
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I to have been waiting for some response from the whole Islamic community but have seen nothing as yet??
Nothing but silence?
Rob
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
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On a certain level, it is weird. Not sure whether the US press hasn't gone after such stories, or whether there is a certain reticence on the part of
the local imams. My feeling is that for some reason, the lazy press has not gone out to find these people. This brings me to the imam behind the
Cordoba House. He has been actively outspoken on this issue. He has even worked with and for the us government. His project is not a mosque, but
rather a community center containing multiple spaces for prayer and reflection for people of all religious faiths. Not to mention it will have a gym
and basketball court. And, there has been a Muslim prayer facility right in the area since before the towers were built. I cannot be more offended
that certain hateful interest groups have coined the term "Ground Zero Mosque". It has been done to only incite those with hate or fear in their
hearts. Geez. Even closer to the actually World Trade site are a McDonald's, a Burger King and a ta ta bar. None of which, apparently besmirch the
memory of the fallen???
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by baitcast
I to have been waiting for some response from the whole Islamic community but have seen nothing as yet??
Nothing but silence?
Rob |
And just how many Muslims do you know in Kingman?
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schwlind
Nomad
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I have spent the entire day watching broadcasts about the most horrific attacks, I dare say, that America has ever endured. ... and have wept many
bitter tears...
While Islam may not be our enemy... time and again events have shown those who are undoubtedly our worst enemies are of the Islam faith...
May God bless all those who perished that infamous day... bless and keep all their family and friends...and may God send to an infinite hell those who
were responsible and who continue to pursue this fanatical hatred.
We will never, ever forget!
God bless America and all her peoples...
Linda
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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HowOdd ?
Cannot be MORE Offended over the protests against the Ground-Zero Mosqueteers ? Nothing could offend him more ?
Now, THAT's Interesting and sort of, Well, Weird. For someone not even involved to have reached the LIMITS of Offense over that issue.
But, it begs the question, WHO gives a RattyAss whether he's that offended and to what extent will his feeling offended have any effect at all over
the issue ?
AND, there's no statistical evidence that ANY sponsors of McDonalds or TitBars have applauded the destruction of the World Trade Center.
[Edited on 9-11-2010 by MrBillM]
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The Sculpin
Nomad
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Perhaps the silence of the imams and the muslim community is more akin to the ritual of shaming - to speak of it is to acknowledge it, and to then
lend it credence, and then legitimacy. Granted, I have never heard this sentiment expressed but it may be so deep rooted in the islamic community that
it is not easily expressed. As for our worst enemies there are many, and muslims certainly do not hold a special place in that crowd. Last, having no
religion in my life, I find it rather amusing that the different faiths are willing to extend this battle to the alleged afterlife by condeming
everyone to hell. This is a particularly human form of lunacy!!
Whoa there, Cowboy - pull back on those reins!
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
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Thank you Sculpin. If anyone took the time to read Koppel's article, they just maybe might understand what's going on here. Bin Laden is out there
somewhere gloating.
To get a little more specific about Ground Zero, I'm not so sure than any or many Nomads ever lived in Manhattan. I did. It is a somewhat narrow
island that runs 14 miles from top to bottom. It is densely developed and densely populated. Anyone who lives in Manhattan would attest to the idea
that a block is a country mile. There are distinct neighborhoods, coupled with neighborhood rivalries. My point is that given a couple of blocks, the
neighborhood changes. That said, fact is that those who seem to be drumming up the biggest protest don't live anywhere near Manhattan. Mayor
Bloomberg, a Jew, has and is supporting this project. On the other hand, Rupert Murdoch, an Australian, who only became a US citizen so he could
acquire TV stations because US law won't allow foreigners to own broadcast facilities, is a primary fomenter of hate and fear. Methinks that Murdoch
is guilty of sedition, at the very least. Friends, its all about money. The rich folks want to keep fomenting fear and anger amongst the middle class,
as they pick your pocket. Never could understand poor and middle class folks voting Republican when it is, on its face, against their own self
interest. But a good advertising campaign obviously works.
If any or all of you truly despise Bin Laden, then, you need to stop a useless and ultimately self-destructive campaign against Muslims, in general.
Anyone really believe that lunatic cult leader in Gainesville has something relevant to say?
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estebanis
Nomad
Posts: 279
Registered: 11-11-2002
Location: Stuck North of the Border. They won\'t pay me
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
[Edited on 9-11-2010 by Pompano] |
Lisa Frost my good freind and co-workers daughter was on that second aircraft. She was coming home to Los Angeles with 2 degrees from Boston
University.
RIP
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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I think Koppel hit the nail on the
head, if there was ever anything more tragic than 9-11 it was our response to it that squandered many more lives and drove our country towards
bankruptcy. Our government played right into OBL's shamelessly transparent plot by sending thousands of our youths to their deaths and wasting
trillions of dollars. Was he brilliant? Or were we stupid?
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Location: on the bayou
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Yea, just turn the other cheek. That'll get us slapped again. Fact is, a large portion of the muslim world hates any and everybody that will not
submit to their rule. Untill the rest of the muslims get rid of those sorry SOBs, they are enablers and accomplises. This will all come to a head when
Iran builds a nuclear weapon.
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monoloco
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Nobody's talking about turning the other cheek. Instead of going after the people responsible for 9-11 we diverted our attention to Iraq which was a
secular Sunni country. Now that we have turned it into a chiite government they will be more closely aligned with Iran to our detriment.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
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Location: Rosarito & California
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bajahowodd, I see some of your points and would even consider the possible shame thing, except numerous Muslims here along with Imans were claiming
our government did this to the twin towers to provoke anger towards the Islamic religion. Now, that just really angers a lot of people and takes away
the shame feelings to which I really doubt they had in the first place.
I know and have worked with Muslims and your right some good and bad like in all ethnic groups. However, most religions that I know of do not prompt
you to go out and kill non-belivers of their religion, especially using terms like infidels. I also know of no other religion which writings say their
heaven will reward you with a large number of female virgins for killing others.
Thus, I will keep the thought that this is a cult religion that has tried unsuccessfully to dominate and seeks to kill large groups of people in order
to make their religion the only one present. Now, I do not think anyone can say that America encourages such things towards any religion not of
Christian thinking, so a religion that encourages killing is just wrong. This is my opinion and stance on this, to which I will not waiver. However,
I defend your right to think differently just not if it seeks to kill me,LOL. Take Care and Travel Safe------------------ bajafun777
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Koppel is just another leftwing journalist. These guys will turn on a dime. If our country had conducted WWII the way this so called war on terror is
being conducted we'd still be fighting Germany and Japan.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Koppel is just another leftwing journalist. These guys will turn on a dime. If our country had conducted WWII the way this so called war on terror is
being conducted we'd still be fighting Germany and Japan. |
If you don't agree with the editorial you should
say why instead of just dismissing the writer as another 'leftwing journalist".
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Sunman
Nomad
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Back on to the original topic, I attended a 9/11 remembrance ceremony and flag retirement ceremony today at a local VA home. The event was attended by
veterans young and old, active duty from all branches of service as well as local emergency services personnel (all branches, fire, police, CHP, etc.)
Quite a touching event and not a dry eye in the house (Taps gets me every time!)
It was humbling and made me proud to see such a tremendous turn out and to know that so many "regular folk" in our community DID NOT FORGET. As
Pompano's orginal post states, we should never ever forget the atrocity that took place on our home soil and also remember there are a host of evil
MF'ers just waiting for the chance to do it all over again. I can only hope that day never comes.
Today, I can truly say I have never been prouder of our resilience as a country and I think I'll raise my glass to that!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
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Why do I disagree with Koppel? He has no clue what the terrorist goals are. He built his whole opinion piece around a false premise. He's a reporter.
Reporters used to just give us the news, now they feel qualified to think for us.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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http://www.observer.com/2010/politics/untangling-new-intrigu...
Untangling the Bizarre CIA Links to the Ground Zero Mosque
By Mark Ames
September 10, 2010 | 2:36 p.m
<br /> (Getty Images)
+Enlarge
Getty Images
So far, the debate over the proposed Islamic center near Ground Zero has unfolded along predictable lines, with the man at the center of the project,
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, drawing attacks from the right painting him as a terrorist sympathizer with ties to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.
But meanwhile, links between the group behind the controversial mosque, the CIA and U.S. military establishment have gone unacknowledged.
For instance, one of the earliest backers of the nonprofit group, the Cordoba Initiative, that is spearheading the Ground Zero mosque, is a
52-year-old Scarsdale, New York, native named R. Leslie Deak. In addition to serving on the group's board of advisors since its founding in 2004 by
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, Deak was its principal funder, donating $98,000 to the nonprofit between 2006 and 2008. This figure appears to represent
organization's total operating budget—though, oddly, the group reported receipts of just a third of that total during the same time period.
Deak describes himself as a "Practicing Muslim with background in Christianity and Judaism, [with] in-depth personal and business experiences in the
Middle East, living and working six months per year in Egypt." Born into a Christian home, Deak became an Orthodox Jew and married a Jewish woman
before converting to Islam when he married his current wife, Moshira Soliman, with whom he now lives in Rye.
Leslie Deak's resume also notes his role as "business consultant" for Patriot Defense Group, LLC, a private defense contractor with offices in Winter
Park, Florida, and in Tucson. The only names listed on the firm's website are those of its three "strategic advisers." These include retired four-star
General Bryan "Doug" Brown, commander of the U.S. Special Operations Command until 2007, where he headed "all special operations forces, both active
duty and reserve, leading the Global War On Terrorism," and James Pavitt, former deputy director for operations at the Central Intelligence Agency,
where he "managed the CIA's globally deployed personnel and nearly half of its multi-billion dollar budget" and "served as head of America's
Clandestine Service, the CIA's operational response to the attacks of September 11, 2001."
Besides Pavitt, Brown and a third advisor, banker Alexander Cappello, the Patriot Defense Group is so secretive it doesn't even name its management
team, instead describing its anonymous CEO as a former Special Forces and State Department veteran, the group's managing director as a former CIA
officer experienced in counter-terrorism in hostile environments and the group's corporate intelligence head as a "23-year veteran of the U.S. Secret
Service who worked on the personal security details of former Presidents Bush and Clinton."
Leslie Deak and Moshira Soliman/ PanachePrive
Patriot Defense Group's primary business involves leveraging its government connections and know-how. The firm is divided into two divisions: one that
"focuses exclusively on the needs of the U.S. military and law enforcement communities as well as the requirements of friendly foreign governments,"
and a corporate division, which "provides business intelligence and specialized security services to corporate clients and high net-worth family
enterprises."
So, to recap: From 2006 to 2008, R. Leslie Deak worked as a "business consultant" to this super-secretive security contractor with ties to the CIA and
counterterrorism forces, and in those same three years he also donated nearly $100,000 in seed money to the foundation now advocating the construction
of the so-called Ground Zero Mosque.
Interestingly, during the same three-year period during which the Deak Family Foundation was financing the Cordoba Initiative, Deak also donated a
total of $101,247 to something called the National Defense University Foundation. The National Defense University is a network of war and strategy
colleges and research centers (including the National War College) funded by the Pentagon, designed to train specialists in military strategy. The
organization recently announced a November 5 dinner gala in honor of Defense Secretary and former CIA chief Robert Gates. Sponsors include Northrup
Grumman, Boeing, Lockheed Martin and...the Patriot Defense Group.
Deak also sits on the NDUF's board of directors, the chairman of which is Mark Treanor, the former general counsel for Wachovia bank from 1998 through
its collapse in 2008 and a major bundler of campaign donations for the McCain-Palin ticket in 2008. Wachovia, now owned by Wells Fargo, was recently
fined $160 million for laundering "at least $110 million" in Mexican drug money between 2003 and 2008, while Treanor was Wachovia's general counsel,
though the figure is likely higher since Wachovia admitted it didn't put any controls on at least $420 billion—that's billion—in cash moved through
its network of Mexico currency exchanges.
Which leads to another odd coincidence: Laundering money for drug lords is what brought down Deak & Co., the company run by Leslie Deak's father,
Nicholas Deak, years ago. The elder Deak, a former top intelligence commander during World War II for the OSS (the forerunner of the CIA), was the
founder of Deak-Perera, which became for a time one of the world's biggest foreign currency and gold dealers. But in 1984, a Presidential Commission
on Organized Crime accused the firm of acting as a money laundering operation for Columbia drug cartels, who reportedly brought sacks of cash
containing tens of millions of dollars into Deak's Manhattan offices. By the end of 1984, Deak & Co. had declared bankruptcy, and a year later,
Nicholas Deak was murdered in the company's headquarters at 29 Broadway by a deranged homeless woman.
After the firm went bankrupt and Leslie Deak was left on his own, the corporation was broken up and sold off in pieces. One company that traces its
beginnings to the defunct Deak empire is Goldline International, a business concern well known to fans of Glenn Beck as well as California
investigators. Goldline is to Glenn Beck what General Electric was to Ronald Reagan: The company sponsors Beck's TV and radio shows as well as his
touring act, and Beck is its public face. The Los Angeles County District Attorney's office, along with the Santa Monica City Attorney's office, are
currently investigating Goldline for defrauding customers by railroading gullible customers into buying their most debased products.
Speaking of Glenn Beck, it has been reported that Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, the second-largest shareholder in News Corp., the parent company
Fox News, which airs Beck's program, is also a major funder of Imam Rauf's projects, as Jon Stewart viewers heard all about last week.
Coincidences happen, of course. (For instance, Pamela Geller, the blogger who's become the leading voice denouncing the mosque project was once,
bizarrely enough, associate publisher of The New York Observer.)
But add to this array of unexpected connections the work of Imam Rauf on behalf of the U.S. government—which includes serving as an FBI "consultant"
and being recruited as a spokesperson by longtime George W. Bush confidante Karen Hughes, who headed up the administration's propaganda efforts in the
Muslim world—and a compelling picture begins to emerge. Bush's favorite Imam, with backing from a funder with connections to the CIA, the Pentagon and
the currency trading company that now sponsors rightwing firebrand Glenn Beck, proposes to build a mosque around the corner from the site of the most
devastating terrorist attack ever visited on America. In the name of "[cultivating] understanding among all religions and cultures," he puts forth a
project that offends a majority of Americans and deals a significant setback to the broader acceptance of Muslim-Americans. It's a little like Billy
"White Shoes" Johnson claiming the only reason he moonwalks after scoring a touchdown is to lower tensions on the football field and raise the other
team's spirits.
Whether the Cordoba Initiative ever gets its way with the Ground Zero Mosque, it may well have a lasting legacy at odds with its stated intention: By
damaging the very moderates and progressives who actually view New York, and the nation as a whole, as a tolerant melting pot, and strengthening the
position demagogues on both sides, it will almost certainly deal a setback to interfaith relations. It will also help to hobble the Democratic party.
Which just might have been the point all along.
Either that, or it's merely a coincidence that this controversy has erupted now, during crucial mid-term elections. In which case we can all go back
to what we were doing before—either denouncing the Park51 Mosque as an affront to Americans, or championing it as a symbol of our fundamental
rights-playing our accustomed roles in a drama that seems too perfect, somehow, to believe.
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