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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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Just heard the Radio show out of san Diego
yesterday, that an angler onboard the Excel Sportfishing
boat out San Diego 3 weeks ago fishing the
Cedros Isle area, reported the boat caught and kept 7 blacks up to 300#, when cleaned at least 1 contained roe
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
Just heard the Radio show out of san Diego
yesterday, that an angler onboard the Excel Sportfishing
boat out San Diego 3 weeks ago fishing the
Cedros Isle area, reported the boat caught and kept 7 blacks up to 300#, when cleaned at least 1 contained roe |
Yup, the sporties still take them in Mexican waters. When you are fishing those reefs, you are going to get a few of them, almost
every trip. I don't think they are targeting BSB, but a guy spending $800.00 to $3,000.00 for a longrange trip is going to keep them for sure.  Excellent meat, and a memorable fight on light tuna/jurel tackle. The pictures of
the wholesale slaughter of gigantic groupers will never be duplicated,  I hope!
They have made a great comeback in both Florida and California through no take laws.
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dean miller
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Posts: 456
Registered: 1-28-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a
500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun;
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Ken,
Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????
Every one on this board would like to see them
sdm
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dean miller
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a
500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun;
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Ken,
Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????
Every one on this board would like to see them
sdm |
dean please help me understand what enraged you so much about my post. Do you doubt the existence of any old photos showing spearfishermen standing
next to a large dead BSB hanging on a hook, or is it that you don't think any of them weighed 500#?
++Ken++
carpe diem!
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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For a start, just look at many of the pictures in "The Sea Of Cortez", Ray Cannon's masterpiece, which is sitting on my coffee table in La Mision. The
rape and plunder went on for years! Both fishermen and divers were responsible.
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dean miller
Nomad
Posts: 456
Registered: 1-28-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
| Quote: | Originally posted by dean miller
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a
500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun;
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken,
Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????
Every one on this board would like to see them
sdm |
dean please help me understand what enraged you so much about my post. Do you doubt the existence of any old photos showing spearfishermen standing
next to a large dead BSB hanging on a hook, or is it that you don't think any of them weighed 500#?
++Ken++ |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you are going to quote or preserve history do it correctly
THE World SPEAR FISHING RECORDS:
1953 Herb Sampson Costa Mesa 172-1/2 pounds
1954 Jack Prodanovich San Diego 310 pounds
1954 Wally Potts San Diego 401 1/2 pounds
1956 Ron Church La Jolla 464 1/2 pounds
1960 John ( Jack) Dudley Scotsmans cove,Orange county 480 pounds
Current and last and final record
Bob Stansberry-San Clemente Island 518 pounds.
So where is your pictures? of the spear fisherman with a 500#+ BSB ???
I would really like to see it and I an certain others would also like to see this 500 # + BSB...
sdm
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by whistler
Remember ,the only reason these villages exist is because of commercial fishing and that includes gill netting. |
Is this really true? If so, it is all the more reason for conservation. All the more reason for limits...and to enforce conservation laws on the
Seiners and Gill Netters. The laws are in place. It is stupid to overfish until the villages are dead.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by whistler
Yes,it is true.The coperativa was officially founded in 1948.
Google " punta abreojos,la times". click on "swimming against the tide of overfishing".
They manage their fishery quite well if you ask me. |
Whistler,
This string is talking about Black Sea Bass - Mero.
The L.A. Times article was written in 2002 and only addresses the Punta Abreojos Lobster Industry. I will take your word for it that the Punta
Abreojos fishing cooperative are being good stewards for the Lobster Industry.
However, the rest of the article paints a bleak picture of the Mexican fishing industry overall. We have witnessed the depletion of Bahia Concepcion,
in the Sea of Cortez. We have witnessed the Shrimp Boats, Seiners and Gill Netters doing the same to the Sea of Cortez around the Mulege area.
Are you saying that the Mero in Abreojos is plentiful enough to withstand a tournament that targets them? My only challenge to you is: How do you
know? Do you live there? I will not refute a qualified answer. Your qualified opinion is valid and I will not pursue it further. It will be up to
others to accept it, or not.
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
Posts: 13237
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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Hi all - this is a can of worms and I still don't know if the mero should be protected here or if they are doing just fine .. seems like we are so
close to California that what works there should be true here too ????? I don't fish at all, but I wd hate to see such a beauty of a fish be fished
out ....
the coop here never fishes mero commercially. Perhaps they have no one to sell it to? They rigidly control lobster and abalone as to size and numbers
caught. But mero does not enter into the question. Nor any yellowtail or other fish, as far as I know.
I will have someone interpret the email the president of the abreojos coop sent me - if I understood it correctly, he is saying that they are
conducting studies now. But I really can't say if I got the real gist of what he was saying. My Spanish is really good, but this was slightly more
entailed than I can deal with.
Let's see if we can voice our opinions kindly. No one has to agree with anyone (isn't that a relief !! 
and
you get a lot farther in making your point when you do it with class. Especially if you STRONGLY disagree   
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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The destruction of any fishery is a sad thing to witness. In places once teeming with fish there's nothing. I'm beginning to think it's a waste of
time to point out the obvious. Gill nets, seines, even unlimited hook and line harvesting are taking their toll. Fishermen will wonder where the fish
went.
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
Posts: 13237
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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@whistler=will do. Juanchy is such a nice guy and joaquin has the the Cactus restaurant - do go there and have a seafood feast, if you havent
already. Their dad is very nice too. As are the sisters. All in all, a great family. Domingo is doing fantastic as well. MSG GIVEN TO JOAQUIN WHO
STOPPED BY THIS MORNING. HE SAYS HELLO BACK AT YA.
[Edited on 9-22-2010 by BajaBlanca]
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by dean miller
Ken,
Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????
Every one on this board would like to see them
sdm |
dean please help me understand what enraged you so much about my post. Do you doubt the existence of any old photos showing spearfishermen standing
next to a large dead BSB hanging on a hook, or is it that you don't think any of them weighed 500#?
++Ken++ |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you are going to quote or preserve history do it correctly
THE World SPEAR FISHING RECORDS:
1953 Herb Sampson Costa Mesa 172-1/2 pounds
1954 Jack Prodanovich San Diego 310 pounds
1954 Wally Potts San Diego 401 1/2 pounds
1956 Ron Church La Jolla 464 1/2 pounds
1960 John ( Jack) Dudley Scotsmans cove,Orange county 480 pounds
Current and last and final record
Bob Stansberry-San Clemente Island 518 pounds.
So where is your pictures? of the spear fisherman with a 500#+ BSB ???
I would really like to see it and I an certain others would also like to see this 500 # + BSB...
sdm |
dean I have no idea what you are talking about, and you don't seem to want to answer my question to help me understand. What do all these
spearfishing records have to do with my post? They seem to be supporting my position, not yours. You keep harping on me to produce pictures of
spearfishermen with 500#+ BSB as if none exist. You cite a 518# BSB shot by Stansberry. I assume someone took a picture of him standing next to his
big dead fish (after all, it is the "current and last final record"  ). I am not
sure I saw one of those pictures, but if I did, I would have been repulsed by it. So can we leave it at that? ++Ken++
carpe diem!
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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Thank you for your replies, Whistler! 
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dean miller
Ken,
Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????
Every one on this board would like to see them
sdm |
I'm repulsed by them ... and I'm a fisherman.
The idea of measuring one's worth by the size of the fish one brings in is repulsive to me.
It has nothing to do with food.
You'll notice that none of our well known anglers pursue this sort of fishing. It's usually someone from the midwest who rarely fishes the salt and
wants a trophy to bring home.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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I live there. #1 They manage the fisheries they control. #2 All fish caught in the tournament were processed by the coop for food.
Too bad that people who don't live there or are dependent upon the region for their livelihood or life are so critical.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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The people are dependent on Mero for their livelihood?
B.S.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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The Pacific villages of Abreojos, La Bocana, and Asuncion were included in the Biosphere and developed Co-opertives as a result of that. This was one
of the few Biospheres in the world that knew protection of local species was the target but that they had to consider the economic well being of the
residents as well. Unlike some of the stupidity exhibited by the Department of Fisheries in California, they knew that if they were too restrictive,
that people would go outside of the regulations and do whatever they had to do to make a living.
While the Coopertives may not directly control certain species, they have exhibited a pretty tight hand in controlling abuses and overharvest of the
other species also, as if they seemed to understand at some level the balance of what goes on in the sea. I had a person I know who was over at La
Bocana fishing for recreation, but part of what he did was to sell his fish when he returned to the other side. The people of La Bocana had welcomed
him and even invited him to guide in the area since he was such a great guide and fisherman, but when he took extra Grouper so that he could sell
fillets, he was told in no uncertain terms that would not be allowed or tolerated.
Whenever I was fishing there, it was clearly understood that a person could catch a Mero while there and people even helped with GPS numbers and the
like but it was also clearly understood that more than one take would not be acceptable. So Blanca has hit on a really important issue here and one
does not need to be a knee-jerk Tree Hugger to see the dilemna faced by the officials. Do they allow Mero to be taken for the tournament (which has
won several tournaments in past years) or do they just say that is not an allowed species. I pretty much hate the whole tournament mentality anyway
which is a weekend party of testosterone ridden bragging and mentality which really proves nothing but who gets lucky on top of a little skill anyway.
So it would certainly be better for the fishery if they just limited it to Yellowtail anyway since they are migratory and not resident, they are much
more able to handle the small increase in pressure, whereas the resident populations of Grouper fishes and Meros are less capable of dealing with the
increase.
Thank goodness, this may be the last year of these Governor's Copa tournaments which were the brainchild of Agundez anyway. There have been lots
of abuses, several tournaments were cancelled because the local village or town was not in political favor with Agundez, and wonder of all wonders,
since money was involved there has been a lot of cheating and planting of fish from other areas.
[Edited on 9-22-2010 by Pescador]
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
The people are dependent on Mero for their livelihood?
B.S. |
I said the region Igor. You proposing to manage their region for them?
Or is it because you like to fish the region yourself? Maybe you should be restricted from Estero Coyote - A fish hatchery that you frequent.
[Edited on 9-22-2010 by rts551]
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bajajurel
Nomad
Posts: 276
Registered: 6-17-2009
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Fishing for fun
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Hi all, I have heard that Punta Abreojos is holding their fishing tournament this weekend and that MERO will be one of the fish included.
My request is 2fold:
1. I fyou are somehow related or know anyone in Punta Abreojos, please let them all know that this is not a good thing (assuming that you agree with
me on this).
2. Can anyone send me a link or information on why this species is protected ? I wrote to the fishing coop and I wrote to the governor but I need more
ammunition ie FACTS.
What I know: It takes 15 years for black sea bass to reach 150 lbs., the 300 lb. female has 6 million eggs, some of them reach the age of 200 years
(that was my "ahaaaaaaaaaaaa" moment, I told them these fish were as old as Mexico's Independence so they should be saved as a memento.
Any help wd be very appreciated. |
Hola Blanca,
We had a great stay at your place but left early as we were looking for yellowfin, wahoo, and yellowtail which did not show or were uncooperative.
First, there is not a lot known or understood about Giant Black Sea Bass other than it was disallowed in California because of the decline in
population. Here is an attachment to Calif. DFG that explains a little about the species -
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/status/giant_seabass.pdf
I have asked my friend who is a marine biologist at Scripps to find me some research information and I will post as soon as I get anything. From the
article linked above "Estimated growth-rates are six years to reach 30 pounds, 10 years to reach 100 pounds, and 15 years to reach 150 pounds".
Attached are pictures from the tournament and the largest was weighed in at 154 kilos (around 340 pounds). Roughly extrapolating the fish was 30 years
old or more.
I was in awe as I had never seen a Giant Black Sea Bass and felt it should have been measured and released as are other large fish in tournaments. I
don't see a need to take such a trophy so maybe we can all collectively work towards catch and release program to encourage conservation.
BTW - Second place was the lady that was staying at your place.
When I get the reply from my friend at Scripps I will post it on this thread.
Thanks again for your hospitality and see you next month.
Jerry
[Edited on 9-22-2010 by bajajurel]
bajajurel
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bajajurel
Nomad
Posts: 276
Registered: 6-17-2009
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Fishing for fun
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Hi all, I have heard that Punta Abreojos is holding their fishing tournament this weekend and that MERO will be one of the fish included.
My request is 2fold:
1. I fyou are somehow related or know anyone in Punta Abreojos, please let them all know that this is not a good thing (assuming that you agree with
me on this).
2. Can anyone send me a link or information on why this species is protected ? I wrote to the fishing coop and I wrote to the governor but I need more
ammunition ie FACTS.
What I know: It takes 15 years for black sea bass to reach 150 lbs., the 300 lb. female has 6 million eggs, some of them reach the age of 200 years
(that was my "ahaaaaaaaaaaaa" moment, I told them these fish were as old as Mexico's Independence so they should be saved as a memento.
Any help wd be very appreciated. |
more pics
bajajurel
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