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Santiago
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$1670 later....... UPDATE
Last year I put teflon slicks on my trailer and simply launch the boat by getting the trailer wheels just to the water, then punching the excellerator
and slaming on the brakes - zip, the boat scoots off the bunks into the water. My truck rear wheels get a little wet but hubs are out of the water.
Earlier this month while driving to BOLA we heard the slightest of ticking sounds coming from under the truck. We launched in low tide and retrieved
in high tide in the early afternoon, always keeping the hubs out of the water. However, there was one retrieve during a fairly low tide where water
got halfway up the rear wheels.
On the drive home the slight ticking sound was still there. I took the truck in when we got back to my local shop who looked up my service histroy
and noted that in March when I had my front brakes done that the rears were nearly ready. Oh, must need new rear shoes, $200 estimate or so, come back
in an hour. Half hour later the shop owner calls me and says that my rear seals have blown, oil has saturated the shoes and drums and that everything
must be replaced: drums, shoes, seals, better check the differential also. $500-600 now. Half hour later I get another call: we decided to check the
fronts as you had no rear breaks for quite a while and the pads and rotors are below spec and both need replacing. Huh??? just had them done in the
Spring. $1220 now. Fine, do it all, first rate, I live in my truck.
I pick the truck up just after closing time, Saturday night, and in backing out my foot goes all the way to the floor, have to pump the pedal to get
pressure. I go get the shop owner who says they must have forgot to bleed the brakes completely, can I bring it back first thing Sunday morning and
they will re-bleed the brakes. OK, I'm there at 9:00am Sunday and they bleed the brakes and get no bubbles. Turns out the master cylinder is bad.
All this gets replaced and $1670 later my truck stops just fine.
Here's my questions:
1. How in the world does the master cylinder go out at just this very time? They claim they saw a little brake fluid below the Master cylinder.
2. Do you think saltwater got in the rear axle? There was no sign of it in the differential.
3. Why would both the right and left side seals let go at the same time?
4. Do I need to find a new shop?
[Edited on 10-24-2010 by Santiago]
11-14-10 Update:
OK. I went and got all my old parts and took them to 3 independent shops and the dealership where I bought the truck. Here is what I THINK I know:
1. Everyone said that the seals started leaking months before I went to Baja in October. Since I had the front pads replaced in the spring and the
rear brakes checked (no sign of oil then), most were guessing late-spring/early- summer. The reason for this belief is that the amount of oil on/in
the rear drums/shoes and the fact that the front rotors/pads were below spec. No way that could happen in a 1000-mile trip from BOLA to Norcal, most
on the freeway. Saltwater did not cause this. Why both seals started leaking is anyone's guess.
2. Only one independent shop would say they would 'try' to clean the rear drums and even then they would not guarantee no problems. Liability issues.
One hard questioning about this, most shop owners said if this was their vehicle, they would clean and turn the rear drums but check them weekly to
make sure oil was not coming out of the metal and reducing braking. After a month or two they would then deem them safe. Not worth it for a customer
and liability issues.
3. The cost for all the work I had authorized is near the top of the normal range in my area.
4. No one can come up with any reason why the master cylinder failed at this time. The shop foreman of the dealer, one of the largest in NorCal,
says they do 4 or 5 of these complete rebuilds per week and they have never had a MC failure during the work. And yet, he was hard pressed to come up
with a way they could have caused it to fail. He said that the new MCs are not bench-bled or even tested on the bench anymore but on the truck.
Best we can come up with is shear bad luck or literal sabotage by the shop/tech.
O well, a lot of this research just raised more questions.
One thing I was surprised by is the nearly unanimous agreement that getting the rear hubs in water, even saltwater, has nothing to do with seals
failing. Of course, there are other reasons not to do this, but seals aren't one of them, at least with the 4 shops I went to. Maybe shops in coastal
towns will have a different opinion.
[Edited on 11-14-2010 by Santiago]
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wessongroup
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All good questions.. Wow...
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Cypress
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The answer to one of your question? Yes, you need to find a new shop.
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bajafreaks
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Sounds like you got ripped off, and those prices are crazy.
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monoloco
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This doesn't happen to be a Ford?
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Santiago
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2007 Chevy K1500. I had the rear seals go on my Tundra 4 years ago.
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captkw
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as a 50 yr young master mechainic(BOAT TECH) and still have to work on tow units....FIND A NEW SHOP!!!!
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BAJABAILADOR
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find a new shop
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fishingmako
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The dollar amount seems a bit hi? but on the other hand brakes etc. you had done on a truck can get pricy.
Here is my question, you should have known when a guy is charging these kind of dollars and wants you to come back on a Sunday, why would he not due
that right then? wonder if it was all you had for tranportation.
That right there would have told me the guy may be a flake.
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rts551
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"On the drive home the slight ticking sound was still there. I took the truck in when we got back to my local shop who looked up my service histroy
and noted that in March when I had my front brakes done that the rears were nearly ready"
Santiago
If he looked up your service history sounds like you have been to him before.
What gives?
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Santiago
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This is a shop that I've gone to many times but this summer changed hands. I've got my oil changes, routine maintenance, brakes, belts, hoses, water
pumps etc etc for about 10 years. I called a few other shops last week and got estimates around $1500 for similar work so the cost seems in line for
my area.
My real question is about the saltwater - has this happened to anyone else? And is there any relationship to the MC going out and the other work?
Don't we all get our trailer hubs in the saltwater every single time? I've never had a trailer bearing go out on me and yet, the one time I get my
truck in over the hubs for maybe 5 minutes it causes all this? Seems way to coincidental to me.
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BajaBruno
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A 2007 Chevy pickup has rear drum brakes? My 2003 Chevy 2500 has disks all around and yours is much newer. Maybe, I suppose. I can say that I have
launched in the surge at Bahia Muertos many times where the trailer hitch was under water and have never had a problem with seals, rear diff., or
anything else. And because I was launching alone, it stayed underwater for 20+ minutes or so every time. I'm sure there are exceptions, but so far
saltwater has not been a problem for my Chevy.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Maderita
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A dip in saltwater should not have caused the rear axle seals to go bad.
Leaking gear lube will contaminate the brake shoes, which probably needed replacing anyway. Gear lube on the brake drums can be cleaned off, no big
deal. Perhaps your drums were worn beyond specs, requiring replacement.
Sounds pricey to me. Something is wrong with that picture, since you had the brakes done just a few months ago. That's why you should stick around
while the brakes are being disassembled and inspected. You can see for yourself what is really going on and avoid ripoffs.
Water above the hubs can be bad news, worse if it is above the axle tube's breather. The brakes aren't usually the problem. Serious damage occurs if
water gets into the differential housing and contaminates the gear lube. That could destroy the gears and bearings if not dealt with almost
immediately, resulting in a repair bill of $1K to $3K.
Seems highly coincidental that your master cyl failed at the same time. I'm guessing that they ran the reservoir low/dry when bleeding the brake lines
(easy to do if you're not keeping an eye on it). Then they didn't successfully bleed the M/C. Depending on the vehicle, some M/C's are difficult to
"bench bleed", best done with a vacuum bleeder.
Saltwater causes corrosion on the brake parts. Try to avoid getting them wet. If you do get saltwater in the drums, then hose them out with fresh
water at the earliest possible opportunity.
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captkw
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rear axle
hola/the rear axle vent should be vented up to the frame rail with a ckeck valve at the end of the flexible hose,way above the axle...I work on boats
,towing units and I think you might be well advised to seek out a shop where the guy knows somthing about what he should know to hang a sign out
front. boats are like women...most men love;em but are the most misunderstood......same with fishing!!!.....oops
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Skipjack Joe
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Can you examine the original master cylinder for worn seals or internal corrosion? If not, can you take it to a knowledgable mechanic and have him
evaluate it?
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Iflyfish
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If you have enough damiana in your margaritas you won't care any more.
Iflyfish
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wessongroup
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Man.. what a wealth of good information here ... ya can't beat it.. excellent thoughts and/or suggestions to solve a problem... thanks it all helps..
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Santiago
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Thanks guys.
Here's the explanation I got from the shop:
Saltwater got into the axle, then heated up to boiling causing pressure to build, blowing out the seals and coating the shoes and drums with oil. The
drums, for liability reasons, can not be turned and cleaned because the oil has penetrated the metal and the oil will eventually come out and cause
the shoes to become oily. They note on the repair order: "Possible wheelcyl leaking may have damaged master cylinder".
I will take all this info to a real brake shop and see if I can get any more info.
FF: What's damiana?
[Edited on 10-25-2010 by Santiago]
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larryC
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Jim
Maybe an extension on the trailer tongue would help so that you wouldn't have to get the truck in the water.
Just a thought
Larry
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dtbushpilot
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
Thanks guys.
Here's the explanation I got from the shop:
Saltwater got into the axle, then heated up to boiling causing pressure to build, blowing out the seals and coating the shoes and drums with oil. The
drums, for liability reasons, can not be turned and cleaned because the oil has penetrated the metal and the oil will eventually come out and cause
the shoes to become oily. They note on the repair order: "Possible wheelcyl leaking may have damaged master cylinder".
I will take all this info to a real brake shop and see if I can get any more info.
FF: What's damiana?
[Edited on 10-25-2010 by Santiago] |
I wasn't going to weigh in on this one because there are so many factors to consider when you are talking about mechanical failures but after I read
their description of the events that caused the problem I can say without a doubt that you need to find a new shop.....dt
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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