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Author: Subject: Turtle egg harvesting. Wrong!
Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 11-10-2010 at 04:42 PM


Now Bajafam, don"t get your "panties in a Bunch"!!

From the very start this Thread has been over the Nuts who fall for the Bull Puckey of the groups which seek money by playing on peoples fears.

I have lived a much different life than you,Born 2 years before FDR became President watched the REA gettingstarted, watched my Dad work for a Buck a Day. went thrgh Rationing of Sugar and stuff, Graduated from Hi School and became a Hobo for 2 and Half years.

Spent 38 years on the Sea of Cortez and then along comes a bunch of College Graduates and a Phoney Sacto news Story telling everyone "The Sea of Cortez is Ruined""
Then the Endangered Species Bunch. Different thing happen and just as the thing with the Vaguita the words used try to Pin all of the problem on the Commercial Fisherman,
I have yet to see anyone Hollaring about the Giant Squid being Endangered.

We are part of this Plant, if we are engaged in elimating a Specie for Food or Income, then we are just in the Survival of the Fitest line of Happenings.

It is not Honest for People to play on others Fears just to get their money for their own use!!

The same thing goes for the likes of the AARP. Playing on peoples Fears and then using their money to promote Socialism. What a Shame.

Since I beldive in a Supreme Being I guess that I have it better than you, I have Faith that things in Nature have a way of Balancing out.
We cannot save the Plant to be as we hope it will be for our Grandchildren.
As it looks now days they will be loaded on DOPE and not care about the difference we tried to make!!

Yopu cannot Control the Future! Look what happened to the Greastest Generation . Just look around you.

Skeet
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bajafam
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[*] posted on 11-10-2010 at 05:19 PM


I guess I have a different view than your "everything sucks, so who cares" way of living. Perhaps I am naive in thinking that I can make a difference....that I can teach my children to teach others to make a difference....that the choices I make on a daily basis DIRECTLY effect all of the above. Perhaps.

Really? No one cares that the Giant Squid is endangered?
The Sperm Whale does. It is it's main source of food. Who cares about the Sperm Whale? Well, the Orca eats it and we all know how much $$ Shamu brings in...you get the picture...we are all connected. What we eat, eats something else, and so on and so forth. Destroy one link and the damage is done.

Just because people are fearful (huh?) of environmentalists...doesn't mean that those groups are preying upon them for their own financial gain. There must be some retrictions and regulations on the killing of these creatures....just think what would have happened had Scammon been successful in eliminating the grey whales? Think that would not have made a difference?

Since you believe in a Supreme Being, as you proclaim, then you understand the "fear of God" and the punishment for gluttony (the over-indulgence and over-consumption of anything to the point of waste), greed (inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs or deserves, and pride(a desire to be more important than other things) all of which are quite descriptive of the many folks current view on subjects such as this. Nature does have a way of balancing out...or at least it did before we sped up the process with our flippancy. I'm sure that your Supreme Being (as I apparently do not have one?) is not pleased with what is being done to this great blue and green planet. Perhaps that is the reason you say that all our grandchildren will be too doped up to care....coincidence? I think not. The future generations are the ones that will have to pay for the failures of the so-called "Greatest Generation". It's time for Generations X,Y, and Z to wake the F up and start doing something....and that starts with admitting that there is a problem. I am proud to be a part of these generations...hopeful, determined, and not willing to accept that the world is doomed and we're just biding time until we cross over to the other side anyway, so who gives a chit? I live here now..my kids live here now. And I don't want to live on a dead planet in a bubble (seen Wall-E? It's all too real for those with an attitude like yours). Personally, I don't want to be forced to live on a spaceship waiting for the day when the Earth is re-inhabitable.




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Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 11-10-2010 at 05:35 PM


Fam:
I certainly do not think that you will be here to see any effect the "Endangered Speces have on this plant.
Now if you were a Mexicano Family that had been fishing for a living the past Hundred Years and a Bunch of Nuts tried to take you Fish and Income away "i wonder how you would feel about their Grandchildren????? Or their Chidren?? or themselves who have to Eat!!!
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[*] posted on 11-10-2010 at 05:43 PM


I could care less if I am here to see it....that's the point!! It's not about me! Or you!!

And if those Mexican families aren't taught/restricted/regulated to fish sustainably....they will out fish on their own. No one is taking away their fish and the income that you speak of is fed by US greed...and the desire for all things exotic to stuff in our faces. The people of Bahia Asuncion, Punta Abreojos, Bahia Tortugas and all points in between make a fine living with their world recognized sustainable fisheries. Why can't that work elsewhere?




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Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 11-10-2010 at 06:16 PM


Baja fam:

Why can't you work else where?

Leave the Mesxcano alone!!
Go back to the States and try to save wome of the DOPERS!!
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[*] posted on 11-10-2010 at 06:21 PM


Mexico is my home too and the birthplace of my son.



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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 11:57 AM


I am glad skeet is posting again and hopefully he won't be too frustrated. This issue is an emotional one but it took my first hand observations of cause and affect to change my mind. I am still shell shocked over it. I a lot of these same arguments against skeet that are here but now I find myself defending him. Skeet I guess this is just something we have to learn on our own.

This vaquita subject is interesting so I looked it up. What I can conclude is this: the natural habitat of the vaquita was severely reduced (area-wise) by the damming of the Colorado river. This damming was done to divert its waters to irrigate farmland in the USA and probably to harness some electricity too. The marine life that has commercial value has been less affected however it continues to be harvested. Shrimp collection methods (trawlers) and gillnets have severely reduced the already damaged population of the vaquita.

So how will this creature be saved? By creating a biosphere reserve which will severely affect the quality of life and limit the rights of the Mexican fishermen who depend on the area. This is another example of the limitation of the freedoms of a third world countries citizens in order to solve a problem that was created by another richer nation. Elitism at its finest.

There is big money in this and that beautiful colorful sign in an above post was likely paid for the big foreign foundations. Our marine park isn't financially supported by very much Mexican money it is mainly supported by big foreign funds. This is an indirect violation of article 33.

Wanna save the vaquita? then let the CO river run free and stop buying Mexican shrimp. Like I said before its up to the USA consumer to change this, not the Mexican fishermen who unfortunately will end up paying the price.
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 12:35 PM
....in your dreams


Abuse it and it goes away. Just like your kids you abused. The wife. The friend. The food chain. Abuse it and it gets all used up. It goes away.

Old growth Redwoods - 3% remaining!

The North Pacific right whale- a species that it may be too late to save.

Fertile soil - over use (destruction) was responsible for the decline of the Mesopotamian, Persian and
Roman civilizations, and in more recent times, contributed to the Great Depression.


*Cod has been an important economic commodity in international markets since the Viking period (around 800 AD)
*17th and 18th centuries, the New World, cod became a major commodity, creating trade networks and cross-cultural exchanges.
*In 2000, WWF placed cod on the endangered species list.
*In 2010, Greenpeace International has added the Atlantic cod to its seafood red list. "The Greenpeace International seafood red list is a list of fish that are commonly sold in supermarkets around the world, and which have a very high risk of being sourced from unsustainable fisheries.
*That cod you are having as "fish n chips" or the McDonald's Fish sandwich....is not Cod anymore...they ran short of it!

Over use, mismanagement, I don't give a damn altitude....don't work in this world. Change is needed.

Yeah...it all looks just swell at the Sea Of Cortez.......in your dreams



[Edited on 11-11-2010 by mcfez]




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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 12:49 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Since I beldive in a Supreme Being I guess that I have it better than you, I have Faith that things in Nature have a way of Balancing out.


mo-skeet-er:
god does not exist. faith in a fictional characters and stories are not a rational basis for decisions on managing natural resources.
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Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 12:50 PM


No McFez In my past 38 years living and fishing and observing, and studing the Great Sea of Cortez.

You are as Full of chit as a Xmas Turkey!!

I would suggest that if you would like to give your Life for an Endangered Specie go ahead by all means.

But for a Human being to take and Control the Lives of other people , such as the mexicano Fisherman, all in the Bull chit"Save it for my Children" is the most Stupied and Dumb thinking anywhere.

Just think, If possible, what would happen if a bunch of you Nuts got control of the Water on the Colo River. First thing you would do is Blow up the Dams, then How would the people who eat contiune to do so??

That is the way your Generation is, Just Plain Dumb!Look at you Smoking DOPE and killing your Children and nobody trying to change it, but a whole bunch out there trying to get people to send them Donations to save a Whale.

Start taking care of your Children. Dummies!!
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 01:03 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
No McFez In my past 38 years living and fishing and observing, and studing the Great Sea of Cortez.

You are as Full of poop as a Xmas Turkey!!

I would suggest that if you would like to give your Life for an Endangered Specie go ahead by all means.

But for a Human being to take and Control the Lives of other people , such as the mexicano Fisherman, all in the Bull chit"Save it for my Children" is the most Stupied and Dumb thinking anywhere.

Just think, If possible, what would happen if a bunch of you Nuts got control of the Water on the Colo River. First thing you would do is Blow up the Dams, then How would the people who eat contiune to do so??

That is the way your Generation is, Just Plain Dumb!Look at you Smoking DOPE and killing your Children and nobody trying to change it, but a whole bunch out there trying to get people to send them Donations to save a Whale.

Start taking care of your Children. Dummies!!


Thank you very much for your response. A arousing laughter of your ludicrous words put tears in my eyes.

You made it very clear to most readers here that you lack having the capacity for thought and reason especially to a high degree.....you are not invested with much intelligence.

If I had the time...you be a great BN to troll.




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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 01:28 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
What I want is accruate and complete and Honest Science!!


but perhaps you only want science that agrees with your opinion....

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Spent 38 years on the Sea of Cortez and then along comes a bunch of College Graduates and a Phoney Sacto news Story telling everyone "The Sea of Cortez is Ruined""


damn college graduates!

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Then the Endangered Species Bunch. Different thing happen and just as the thing with the Vaguita the words used try to Pin all of the problem on the Commercial Fisherman,



Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
We are part of this Plant, if we are engaged in elimating a Specie for Food or Income, then we are just in the Survival of the Fitest line of Happenings.


well, if the vacquita or another fish species is saved by eco-liberal-fruit-nuts, and the local fisherman loses -- then perhaps the fittest has survived. you are OK with that, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
We cannot save the Plant to be as we hope it will be for our Grandchildren.
As it looks now days they will be loaded on DOPE and not care about the difference we tried to make!!


skeet, it's all about survival of the fittest. if dopers are fittest, it is right that they win, eh? perhaps dope smoking increases a persons fitness.
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 01:42 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by flyfishinPam Skeet I guess this is just something we have to learn on our own.

Agree. Have seen what's happening to the Sea of Cortez in other places and other times. The sportsfishermen will move on, but the small commercial guys, with a panga and gill net or two.. Where will they go?
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 02:01 PM


Pam>
As you and I both have learned about the many chnages, good and bad that happen to the Great Sea of cortez, we have experienced the good and bad such as the taking out of the Sierra. The Sierra are back. The taking out of the Squid, they are not back Yet!!.They will be!

Keep up the good Fishing and when those "Begging Donation Hunters come around" tell them to get lost!!
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 03:43 PM


I have been off the grid for awhile and haven't followed this thread fully.

But after reading the last page or so of posts, I wanted to suggest that if people on this board have doubts that Mexicans are also highly concerned about overfishing and over-exploitation of resources in the Sea of Cortez and are looking for remedies to these man-made problems (mostly created by large-scale, commerical concerns), that they should spend some time reading the first 3 issues of a new, regional environmental newspaper, available in both Spanish and English on the web:

http://www.meloncoyote.org

The last issue, from October is about to become available on the site as well (hopefully by the weekend).

Most of the articles, written by local people from the 5 states bordering the Gulf. have to do with concerns about the decline in the fisheries in the short lifetimes of most of the people involved. Or about the exploitation of natural resources at an alarming rate, or the loss of estuaries or...

[Edited on 11-11-2010 by ecomujeres]




http://www.lasecomujeres.org (Bilingual environmental education about Baja California)

Check out: http://www.meloncoyote.org (project of Journalism to Raise Environmental Awareness; a quarterly news bulletin for the Gulf of California Region).
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Skeet/Loreto
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 04:12 PM


ecomujeres:

Do you know if any of the people involved in these studies have ever been to Mercenarios Reef which is located 35 miles North East on a heading of 030 degrees??
Do you know if they have been there what was the re**** of their Visit??

Would appreciate an answer on this Thread if you get anyinformation.

thanks

Skeet
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[*] posted on 11-11-2010 at 10:26 PM


Quote:
Quote:
You made it very clear to most readers here that you lack having the capacity for thought and reason especially to a high degree.....you are not invested with much intelligence.


Anyone with 27 years in a panga is not likely to have many brain cells remaining. Now, with the Internet, one can bring ones delusions to the masses. Skeet's been providing free entertainment for over a decade and when he's no longer around, this will be a pretty boring place. Just look at the decline since JR's demise.

[Edited on 11-12-2010 by Sidamone]
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[*] posted on 11-12-2010 at 05:45 AM


Are Vaquita actually caught in shrimp nets? Never heard of a dolphin/porpoise caught in a shrimp net. Turtles yes, but dolphins? There is a turtle excluder device that's supposed to be effective. Matter of fact, aren't Mexican shrimp banned from the US market untill their shrimp fleet has turtle excuder devices installed? Bottom trawls are very destructive on juvenile fish. The doors and lead/chain lines have the same effect as a bulldozer on the seafloor.
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[*] posted on 11-12-2010 at 09:37 PM


Please refer to the page http://vaquita.tv for more info on the plight of the Vaquita...

Skeet...argh! I have no more words for you or to you. Enough already.




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[*] posted on 11-12-2010 at 09:42 PM
Lets keep this post going...


According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, one in four animals caught in fishing gear dies as bycatch (unwanted or unintentional catch). Tons of fish are tossed out because they're not what the fishing boat was after, have no market value, or are too small to sell. Bycatch often takes young fish that could rebuild depleted populations if they were allowed to grow up and breed. It is estimated that for each pound of shrimp caught in a trawl net, an average of 2 to 10 pounds of other marine life is caught and discarded as bycatch.



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