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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Thanks for the support. Doug gave me the option of deleting or editing my post, he didn't force it upon me and I think he too was confused what the
uproar is about. I chose instead to give a clarification and encourage your responses, which I hope Doug finds acceptable. I was threated with
legal action over my YouTube video as well. Mexico is what it is and no good deed goes unpunished. I agree that finding buyers should be the
developers priority and restoring investor's trust by straightening out the land title legal issues for Rosarito is a necessity.
The only person I regularly tick off prefers to complain directly to Doug in U2U's rather than post her arguments and debate them in forums. Such is
the state of our NOB journalists. This board is designed to accommodate discussion of these type issues and our free speech and the freedom to share
our opinions here is how we learn what is happening around us. I have an undergraduate degree in Economics and the supply and demand of real estate
markets is of personal and intellectual interest to me- so I talk about it and discuss it. So what?
So who is investing in this new construction here in Rosarito Beach when there is no current demand and more profitable locations exist? The Mayor of
Rosarito says only 100 sales took place in 2010. There must be 500 finished new empty condos and another 500 units in unfinished rusting hulks. And
now people are building yet another new condo project and they wonder why we tend to "think outside the box" when confronted by these economic
deviations? Having more money than brains is not a common problem down here and it confuses me. It confuses everyone who goes into business to make a
profit.
Let me know when it's safe to come out of hiding in Colorado, or when ski season ends- whichever comes last. 
[Edited on 3-23-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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lookingandbuying
Nomad
Posts: 102
Registered: 3-15-2010
Member Is Offline
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Good stuff
Personally, I want to get a hold of whatever these developers are consuming cause it sure must put your mind in a state of euphoria. I too have a
background in finance/economics and all the supply/demand...guns or butter stuff just does not add up when you look at the supply versus the demand
features in the Baja area. I keep hearing over and over that this developer or that developer has a lot of money and they feel the market will be
coming back (soon?) and they want to be positioned to take advantage of the opportunity when that happens. SURE!!
Just like the original tower by Calafia that sat empty for a decade or more before the "market" came back. Can it at all be possible that they
actually made any money on this tower after all of the carry and operating costs. I once saw an interview with Steve Wynn where they asked him if was
was happy that he built the 2nd tower "Encore" next to the Wynn in Las Vegas. He answered hell no!! I would have never built this knowing what I
know now but we were in the thick of it and I just could not stop and leave an empty tower next to my original one. At least he was honest.
What do developers do best? They build developments! And, rest assured they will build and build and build as long as there is money given to them
to do so. Whoever the "money" people are that are providing funds to the developers in Baja must be high on the fumes coming down from the hills.
This is not a business model, at all. Who on this board would pay $300k for one of these places? No one? Well I am sure going to be interested in
watching the completion and sales of this building and others along the corridor. 
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krafty
Super Nomad
Posts: 1052
Registered: 8-23-2010
Member Is Offline
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perhaps they are completing NAOS in anticipation of the convention center being done. Hotel instead of condos?
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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lookingandbuying: The Grupo Aries condo tower near my house (Playa Linda Rosarito) was finished in 2008 and has never been occupied- I am guessing
for land title reasons. They have a crew of people that maintain it daily and after it sitting almost three years empty- it takes a lot of work and
money to keep it in showroom condition. Talk about diminishing returns. They obviously have money to burn and no bank note outstanding. They wanted
$500K for each half-floor unit for the very short time they had them up for sale.
All these developers think theirs is special and deserves top dollar. One good project in Rosarito, Gardenhaus (a "green" townhouse development east
of the toll road) has a billboard that says their prices have been dropped from $159K to $99K. $99K for a good walk-to-the-beach townhouse in
Rosarito Beach seems just about right to me, not $500K. Oh I'm sorry... NAOS has renamed this area Riviera Baja. When crime happens there, they
still call it Tijuana. lol
And yeah, it seems these "enlightened" people at NAOS think they are very special indeed and smarter than everyone else. With organic food in their
restaurants Rosarito Beach has magically become "Riviera Baja". I don't see any condo prices listed though. I'm sure some Nomad will know them.
http://www.rosaritonaos.com/
[Edited on 3-24-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by krafty
perhaps they are completing NAOS in anticipation of the convention center being done. Hotel instead of condos? |
That could be smart actually. Or a Condotel project like Torres tried to pull off. But the sales materials look like condos for sale. The new
convention center is close, but still a shuttle bus ride away- not really conventioneer walking distance. Not sure Torres would appreciate the
competition to his Rosarito Beach Hotel which is only running 50% occupancy. You'll note the convention center made real construction progress only
after Torres left office.
Not sure what the convention center has booked for events besides the given of the Popotla Artisans annual event. It will be interesting to see who
books it. The Mayor of TJ owns the Grand Hotel and they do convention business too- with a very nice hotel on site.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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When I read your original post Wooosh, I see nothing that directly slanders the NAOS project; you only stated the obvious and what anybody down here
with any common sense knows / suspects is going on. I do know folks who personally know the developers behind NAOS and they tell me they are well
established, well known business folks and are legit. They have deep pockets and they don't need buyers deposits to build / finish the project.
Maybe that is true in this case - they must have a marketing plan that is looooooooooooooooong term...
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
When I read your original post Wooosh, I see nothing that directly slanders the NAOS project; you only stated the obvious and what anybody down here
with any common sense knows / suspects is going on. I do know folks who personally know the developers behind NAOS and they tell me they are well
established, well known business folks and are legit. They have deep pockets and they don't need buyers deposits to build / finish the project.
Maybe that is true in this case - they must have a marketing plan that is looooooooooooooooong term... |
That building site has some interesting history too. I still think the developers are putting their marbles in the wrong place, regardless of how
many marbles they may have. Their webpage opens with the Calderon goal "Mexico to be World’s 5th Most Popular Tourist Destination by 2018" so maybe
this is their six year plan and they are from Mexico City. It's still not a good or smart plan in this economy. They say they have other NAOS
locations planned, so this may be the best option they have in Mexico- which is still rather hard to believe.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I still think the developers are putting their marbles in the wrong place, regardless of how many marbles they may have.
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Especially in these times we now live; I can think of lots of better returns on investment right now. They should have hired us as their economic
advisers - we would have settled for just a % of the net profits...
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krafty
Super Nomad
Posts: 1052
Registered: 8-23-2010
Member Is Offline
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Yeah, Rosarito is not a warm weather destination anymore, at least for the last year or so
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I still think the developers are putting their marbles in the wrong place, regardless of how many marbles they may have.
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Especially in these times we now live; I can think of lots of better returns on investment right now. They should have hired us as their economic
advisers - we would have settled for just a % of the net profits...
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I guess you don't need the competition in Abalone farming but I'd open a casino or two for them if they were legit. That type of investment I
understand, this one... not so much. 
Our Girl Maggie knows her print media and has the memory of an elephant. She gives a quick down and dirty on her site today:
"I doubt that they would be coming after Whooosh, this information has been out there for a very long time. I think the US froze some assets years ago
(at least real estate assets in the States), and of course the cartels are also involved with real estate in the States. That and construction
businesses are very popular with them, they can wash their money. Time shares were a biggie back in the 80's and 90's and of course the Hotel business
are also favorites. WTF, they are into everything.
I'm pretty sure other people have written about this, even Stratfor (whom you think or your buddies think is an anachronism) wrote about this many
years ago and nailed it. This is not a deep dark secret, not at all.
[Edited on 3-24-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Good news on the Rosarito land title issues. The topic of NAOS came up on another thread, and Ramuma53 chimed in on the legal status of NAOS. I hope
he turns this type information into a list for investors. The more legally titled, privately financed (instead of depending on advance deposits)
projects like NAOS there are... the more the Mexican government will invest in tourism, like for the Playas de Rosarito Malecon.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=50209&pag...
"El Oasis was originally sold to El Oasis, by Roberto Ballin De Leon, he acquired it from Moreno y Cia. Suscesores, the Daisy Moreno estate, they do
not have a National Land title, but they in the 1990 were being evicted by Ejido Maztlan and they contacted me and my technical team, we did the Ejido
Mazatlan basic documents study and found out that they had a virtual execution, their topographical plans were a bad joke and actually had absolutely
no land because their expropriation was against the Machado Family that had actually no land at all. We proved all those facts in Federal court and
won the case in favor of El Oasis, later the ruling was confirmed in Supreme Court.
About that property, even if they are still over National land, they only have to regularize by paying the nation and the property will be absolutely
clear, so I don´t think the investors have anything to worry about, they have a supreme court ruling backing up their right."
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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tiotomasbcs
Super Nomad
Posts: 1837
Registered: 7-30-2007
Location: El Pescadero
Member Is Offline
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All winter I've been partyn with Surfers/campers loaded with money/doares!? Lot's of green money and herbal warfare, verdad?! Quote You can't own
property, for the people!?/ Love and peace. Slow . very slo9w property sales here and it's great! Slam the door behind me>  
Flipper died years ago. Glad the tranquility has returned altho lots of foSale signs everywhere/! La Paz. I ddon't think so! Clueless and
thankful! Tio
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