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Author: Subject: How Mexicans Perceive Americans in Baja?
Gypsy Jan
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 02:05 PM
How Mexicans Perceive Americans in Baja?


This will probably start a flame war, but lizard lips, in my post about working through the inmigrado status, said that an official in his area had it in for him.

I do not know lizard lips personally, but, through his posts, I believe he is a pretty good guy.

But, we know local people in our area who refuse to work for an American married to a Mexicana.

It goes without saying that money is scarce, but they stay away.

Their name for him is "Senor Malo"

[Edited on 3-30-2011 by Gypsy Jan]




“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
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Gypsy Jan
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 02:20 PM
La Bamba Restaurant is Another Example


They closed down yesterday because they did not receive a liquor license from the City of Rosarito.

The owner, a retired tank commander in the U.S. Army, told us that they couldn't survive without a liquor license and that they confronted the city officials in Rosarito, calling them all corrupt after they were asked for $15,000 U.S. to facilitate the paperwork. (His throwaway comment was, "They didn't even ask for pesos.")

He said that they were told that they had caused the city officals to lose face.




“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain

\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna

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—Julius Caesar
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motoged
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 02:23 PM


Hmmmmm.....I guess it is not too wise to pee in the cornflakes you plan on eating....:light:



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Cypress
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 02:25 PM


I imagine they view them mostly as tourists with money to spend. The same way the locals in any vacation destination view tourists.
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Gypsy Jan
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 02:27 PM
Yes, Dave


I have edited my post. :lol: :lol:



“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain

\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna

\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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Dave
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 02:46 PM
Wanna hear something even more incredible?


Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
They closed down yesterday because they did not receive a liquor license from the City of Rosarito.

The owner, a retired tank commander in the U.S. Army, told us that they couldn't survive without a liquor license and that they confronted the city officials in Rosarito, calling them all corrupt after they were asked for $15,000 U.S. to facilitate the paperwork. (His throwaway comment was, "They didn't even ask for pesos.")

He said that they were told that they had caused the city officals to lose face.


When these folks bought La Bamba several years ago, the bar was there and the former owners were selling liquor. They were told a liquor license was in place.

Amazing.


:rolleyes:




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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 02:55 PM


We will never know how they really see us. You can't ask. Their culture of graciousness will never allow a real answer.
First of all, they don't like us as a people. We have oppressed them just a bit too long. Stole their land too.

Secondly.....personal relationships will only partially forgive those misgivings and you'll be treated properly by your aquaintenances. You probably will never be their friend. You may think you are....but you're not.

Last, but not least, the government through time has taught them to see us as their enemy. We cause all of their woes.
It's always easier for them to blame us than themselves, who are the cause of most of the problems.

So....that's my take on the situation.

One more thing.....it's always been more important to me how I see myself. I couldn't care less how they, or anybody else, sees me.
They ain't nobody.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 03:03 PM


All people are different. Some people come across as jerks, some are nice, some know how to smooze. Some people treat strangers differently than people they know. Your discussion of treatment of gringos by mexicans is pointless, because every situation is different.

But your Q is sure to start a flame war -- flame on you flamers!
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 03:06 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
They closed down yesterday because they did not receive a liquor license from the City of Rosarito.

The owner, a retired tank commander in the U.S. Army, told us that they couldn't survive without a liquor license and that they confronted the city officials in Rosarito, calling them all corrupt after they were asked for $15,000 U.S. to facilitate the paperwork. (His throwaway comment was, "They didn't even ask for pesos.")

He said that they were told that they had caused the city officals to lose face.


the fact that you mentioned he is retired tank commander seems to be irrelevant to the story. perhaps the relevancy is that he announces such to everyone?? (p.s. I have never met a tank commander - my only impression of one is George C Scott's portrayal of Patton)
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 03:14 PM


La Bamba got their liquor license and is indeed open for business-with a bit of help from his MX Friends......got some great deals too!
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Gypsy Jan
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 03:18 PM
Hi mtgoat


So maybe I am irrelevant.



“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain

\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna

\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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Bajatripper
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 03:27 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
This will probably start a flame war, but lizard lips, in my post about working through the inmigrado status, said that an official in his area had it in for him.

I do not know lizard lips personally, but, through his posts, I believe he is a pretty good guy.

But, we know local people in our area who refuse to work for an American married to a Mexicana.

It goes without saying that money is scarce, but they stay away.


[Edited on 3-30-2011 by Gypsy Jan]


Like anywhere else, it will depend on the person.

I have had to leave a (local) bar in Loreto because one guy had had a bad experience in the US, and, therefore, all Americans were bad in his eyes. While the bar owner supported me and was about to eject the guy, I knew where the guy was coming from so opted to leave myself since it was his bar.

And then, there are those who make their living off of Americans and will be your best friend--my stepfather attracted this type with uncanny accuracy, and worse, couldn't tell what they were all about.

But, overall, I think most Mexicans in Baja treat Americans in accordance to their behavior--an a-hole will be treated as such while polite people are always welcome.

As for those people who refuse to work for an American who's married to a Mexicana--it could be that who they are really refusing to work for is the Mexicana. Nothing like nouveau riche in their own country. Going from being poor and having nothing to suddenly being considered to be wealthy can cause some people to adopt an attitude of superiority with their countrymen--it seems quite common in places I've been.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 04:15 PM


This is going to be a really good discussion and there will be many, many, different views and personal experiences that nomads will offer to explain their views. Because of my work it has brought me to every state in Mexico and I have returned to each many times. I have also worked in 90 different countries in the last 14 years so I will tell you from experience the way I am treated once people know I am an American, and proud of it.

First off, I treat everyone the way I want to be treated. I have to deal with police and governmental agencies, attorneys, and witnesses regarding kidnappings, murders, or anything else that has to deal with a life insurance investigation. I never kiss burro to get what I need and never pay mordida. All of my contacts with these people have been, for the most part, a very pleasant experience. Because I speak Spanish it opens doors. Mexican people will open up to you if you speak the language. There is mistrust initially and if you come across like a demanding fool you will be treated as such. If I have a honest discussion on what I need and am looking for I usually walk away with the information that I wanted. I always joke around and never get stressed out no matter how the person I am talking to comes off. If for some reason I am treated badly I just say thanks and go on my way and look for another door to open to get what I want.

I was thrown in Jail in a small town in Oaxaca for three hours for telling a judge that he was wrong. Big mistake and I failed the attitude test. He knew he was wrong but wanted to show me who he was. After I apologized to him he gave me everything I wanted. Ok, I kissed a little burro but had to in that case.

I use the same taxi drivers in Monterrey, Mexico City, Guadalajara and many of the smaller cities I go to only because I know they won't rip me off. For the most part taxi drivers are perfect examples of profiling people. I am at a loss in countries where I don't speak the language but in Mexico I know the games they play and they are experts at trying to get every peso you have in your pocket but that is for another thread. The drivers I have used for more than ten years call me at my home and wish me a merry Christmas and I get a birthday call as well. These guys are true friends and I treat them as such. I may need to use them all day long and tell them where I need to go and get a price set prior to heading out. If I think it may be a little to much we talk, get it straight then head out. I'll buy them lunch or sometimes we will go to their home for a meal when invited, which is often.

When Dennis said that the Mexican government has promoted a mistrust with Americans he is right on. My wife is Mexican and my son was born here in Ensenada. The teachers he has had have dealt with me on several occasions because the trash they have tried to teach my son about U.S. history and their take on what they think about Americans. What they teach now is much better but there will always be mistrust.

When my wife's family get together for a party my brother's in law call me P-nche gringo only as a joke. I in turn call them P-nche Mexicanos and several other choice words I have learned in the 24 years I have lived here. We all laugh and not once has there ever been an issue with me being who I am.

For the most part, everyone I come into contact with all over the world have all the dreams and fears I do but most important, they want and deserve respect.

Last June I had work in Haiti. Everything I said above does not apply to this country and I will write about my trip if anyone is interested.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 04:44 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
This will probably start a flame war, but lizard lips, in my post about working through the inmigrado status, said that an official in his area had it in for him.

I do not know lizard lips personally, but, through his posts, I believe he is a pretty good guy.

But, we know local people in our area who refuse to work for an American married to a Mexicana.

It goes without saying that money is scarce, but they stay away.

Their name for him is "Senor Malo"



I am married to a Mexicana, and live in baja full time. My experiences are exactly opposite as you describe.

That being said, I stay away from places were drinking takes place, unless it is at a wedding or party were my family/friends are present. Every fight, I have ever been in or around occured in the presence of alcohol, most of which occured in bars in Montana.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 05:54 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
I have had to leave a (local) bar in Loreto because one guy had had a bad experience in the US



Shame on you.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 05:54 PM


Frankly it all depends on the relationships you have and cultivate. I mean if your encounters with Mexicanos are centered around the services they provide for you, what do you expect. Do you invite locals to your parties? Do you discuss the things you discuss with your Gringo friends? Do you live in isolated semi-gated (or gated) communities?

And then there's the matter of how Mexicans are treated on the other side. Many, if not most, Americans keep to themselves and have what amounts to a racist attitude toward Mexicans. They are there because it's cheap, or they can do what they can't on the other side.

It all changed for me when I started working in Tijuana 2-3 days a week with a team of Mexican software engineers.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 06:02 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
And then there's the matter of how Mexicans are treated on the other side. Many, if not most, Americans keep to themselves and have what amounts to a racist attitude toward Mexicans.



Pure effing baloney. The cross border crap has nothing to do with a new relationship between two rational people. They stand in front of each other with no baggage.

Expats keep to themselves for their own reason.....they don't know how to communicate. It isn't a racist attitude.
It's dumbfounded confusion.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 06:12 PM


Right back atcha you old crank. Into your second box already?

The cross border crap has everything to do with it.

And oh yeah, how much Spanish do you speak?

But I won't be dragged into the dirt by your potty mouth. Don't know how to communicate? You better believe it. :lol::lol:
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 06:29 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
And oh yeah, how much Spanish do you speak?



Suficiente... y mas, cuando es necesesario. Quieres mas, pocho?
Digame. Su vida Mexicano es puro frauda. Un otro cabrón hombre sin pais.
Chupa que yo tengo in mi mano, cabron.
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[*] posted on 3-30-2011 at 06:30 PM


Mexican people of Baja in a very certain way are like anyone anywhere else. As a foreign guest in Baja, if you are humble in your heart with the requisite respect for the people and the privilege of being allowed to be a guest, and your heart is pure, the Mexicans will treat you rather well. I have experience this in every country I have ever been in actually, except for France, Paris specifically.

My big objection to my experiences in Baja is to the government agency personnel and so called professionals (attornies, accountants, real estate agents, bankers, notarios) whom I have paid money to and rarily if ever gotten professional competence. These buttheads have always cost me wasted money. But, interpersonally with all acquaintences and neighbors, the people of Baja are better than most and unusually inclined to help you when you need it. More so than in the USA. People in the USA are trigger happy letigious by comparison rather than being predisposed to being voluntarily helpful.

If you want to really know what it is like to be consistantly mistreated and disrespected without cause, take a trip to Paris. By the end of my trip, I was so resentful and angry, I went out looking for altercations to get into.


[Edited on 3-31-2011 by MitchMan]
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