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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
I'm a socialist by nature. |
Shame on you.
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Bajatripper
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Actually, I believe in many of the aspects of socialism and am proud of it.
When it comes to things such as health care and education, I think society is way further ahead if they are provided "free" of charge.
And if you support the present economic system in place in the US, you, too, approve of socialism. But not your run-of-the-mill socialism that
benefits all of society, but rather, one targetted for the benefit of the wealthiest in our nation--who are allowed to practice the principles of
capitalism at their convenience but then switch to socialism when it comes time to "share" the loses from their economic gambles.
But you are smart enough to know that this argument has no end. I just wanted you to know I have no shame when it comes to such things. But I could
call it "Regulated Capitalism" if it would make it easier to swallow.
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monoloco
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Bajatripper, you might appreciate this:http://www.truth-out.org/the-collapse-globalization68839
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Cypress
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
Actually, I believe in many of the aspects of socialism and am proud of it.
"Regulated Capitalism" if it would make it easier to swallow. |
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mtgoat666
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
I'm a socialist by nature. |
Shame on you. |
denny:
what socialist programs pay your pension?
i won't listen to your criticism of socialism or social programs until you get off the dole.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
denny:
what socialist programs pay your pension?
i won't listen to your criticism of socialism or social programs until you get off the dole. |
Dole???? That would be something I don't deserve. I earned the union pension and was forced to pay into Soc Sec. I had no choice.
The VA Disability? Now, Goat. You really don't want to have a discussion about what I've traded in comfortable sanity for a few bucks. You really
don't.
Nor do I.
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grizzlyfsh95
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While I'm by no means rich by US standards (enlisted military pensions don't pay much), I know I have more than the average Mexican living in La Paz
and I don't mind subsidizing the less fortunate. I'm a socialist by nature
You did 20 years of a "not much to do" job, are double dipping from the money collected from those who actually paid taxes, from a country that
provided you an opportunity to actually excell (which you chose not to do)...and you are "proud to be a Socialist"? Who's money do you think pays for
all of the "FREE" stuff you want? Who do you think pays you now? Wanker
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mulegemichael
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we're not here cause it's cheap...we're here cause we love the culture; the pace,the interaction,the extended families, the resourcefullness of it's
residents, the response one gets from a wave or a smile in passing....we engage folks because we like folks...i think no matter WHERE one is, he'll be
recieved on HOW he is...applies to baja...applies to anywhere
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mulegemichael
we're not here cause it's cheap... |
True story. I often hear the question, "How do the Mexican people afford to live in their own country."
Well...they have an advantage, such as we have as well, when living here. We don't have to deal with a mortgage. It makes a world of difference in
money management.
None the less, "Mexico on five bucks a day" is ancient history.
I'm not sure if that has anything to do with what we're talking about here, but ....uhh.... what was I saying?
.
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by DENNIS]
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95
You did 20 years of a "not much to do" job, are double dipping from the money collected from those who actually paid taxes, from a country that
provided you an opportunity to actually excell (which you chose not to do)...and you are "proud to be a Socialist"? Who's money do you think pays for
all of the "FREE" stuff you want? Who do you think pays you now? Wanker |
Ahhh, yes, I've been waiting for you. Given your propensity to shoot off your mouth without knowing any real facts about me--other than I'm a
free-loading military vet (who was sent to the first Persian Gulf War to keep the oil flowing so that people like yourself could make "good use" of a
system financed by the efforts of people like me and turn it into a personal gold mine--why bother?
You are probably another one of those "self-made" millionaires. Isn't Capitalism grand? But, for a real challenge, why don't you go to some place like
the Philippines, penniless, and show how you can prosper by your own resources in any system. Now that, my man, would impress me.
PS
FYI military members pay taxes too.
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by Bajatripper]
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mulegemichael
we're not here cause it's cheap...we're here cause we love the culture; the pace,the interaction,the extended families, the resourcefullness of it's
residents, the response one gets from a wave or a smile in passing....we engage folks because we like folks...i think no matter WHERE one is, he'll be
recieved on HOW he is...applies to baja...applies to anywhere |
You are right, in describing the attitudes of some of the people who have relocated to Mexico. But, as much as I wish it weren't true, other expats
are here precisely because it's cheap and, saddly, they don't give a damn about the culture or people and wouldn't dream of interacting with the
locals--unless it was to give them instructions on how to perform the tasks they were hired to perform.
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by mulegemichael
we're not here cause it's cheap... |
Well...they have an advantage, such as we have as well, when living here. We don't have to deal with a mortgage. It makes a world of difference in
money management.
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by DENNIS] |
Dennis, be patient with me. I know I've already used up a year's worth of challenges, but I've got to add my two cents here.
Mexicans USE to not have mortgages and the associated payments that go with them, but that is no longer the case.
My wife, who is self-employed, bought a house using a loan that started out at 2,800 pesos a month. By the fifth year, the monthly payments had
increased to 3,900. Every year, on the anniverary of her purchase of the house, she could count on her payments going up.
The funniest thing about it is that, after five years of keeping current on her payments, she owed more than the original loan amount. I asked them to
explain how that was possible and never did get an answer beyond the equivalent of "because that's how it works." Furthermore, in the two months it
took me to gather the funds to pay off the debt, the total of the amount owed increased by about 2,000 pesos.
In La Paz, the places that are called "colonias" were usually built as you say, people first buying the land and then building on it as they got the
money to do so. But, in more recent times, we've been innundated by "fraccionamientos," which are usually composed of little cookie-cutter houses
located on really small lots. These houses are usually financed through some national (or international) finacial institution. A big difference
between here and the US is; here, if you work for a major enterprise or the government you qualify for "prestaciones," under the law which, in this
case, means that you get a lot of help paying the mortgage. So the only ones who feel the real weight of these mortgages are people who are
self-employed since they get no assistance in making the payments.
[Edited on 4-3-2011 by Bajatripper]
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DENNIS
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That's all true and accurate, Steve, although large scale financing still isn't available due to the extremely high interest rates. INFONAVIT housing
[government built and sold to low income clients] has long been available. I've seen a few of these developments, but never one that didn't turn
into a ghetto. Zero pride of ownership.
Point was, when Mexicans buy a house in the private sector, they reach in their pocket and buy it. Lots of in-family transactions taking place.
Sounds as though your wife got tangled up in "The New Credit Market." It's out there and largely unregulated, but word travels fast.
The absense of bank credit is one of the main reasons the Casas de Cambio exist. They make short term, secured loans at usurious rates.
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
That's all true and accurate, Steve, although large scale financing still isn't available due to the extremely high interest rates. INFONAVIT housing
[government built and sold to low income clients] has long been available. I've seen a few of these developments, but never one that didn't turn
into a ghetto. Zero pride of ownership.
Point was, when Mexicans buy a house in the private sector, they reach in their pocket and buy it. Lots of in-family transactions taking place.
Sounds as though your wife got tangled up in "The New Credit Market." It's out there and largely unregulated, but word travels fast.
The absense of bank credit is one of the main reasons the Casas de Cambio exist. They make short term, secured loans at usurious rates.
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And I thank you for your support (and amplifying remarks).
A couple of more observations on the difference between a colonia and a fraccionamiento in La Paz:
colonias were usually established in what were the outskirts of town and started with dirt streets, no sidewalks and probably no water, sewage and
lights in the early years. Lots had to be cleared, but were usually generous in size and relatively cheap. Houses often started off being made of
plywood or even cardboard before being replaced, one room at a time, with a permanent structure (in my neighborhood, we still have a few old wooden
houses that date back 60 or more years. These will be replaced by expensive houses in the near future as the kids sell off and relocate elsewhere).
Fraccionamientos, on the other hand, are built already hooked up to electricity, water and drains. Sidewalks and streets are already in place. BUT
boy, are those streets and sidewalks narrow and the lots small. And most are sold with a mortgage--and, in Mexico, interest rates don't seem to be
regulated. (I remember a few years ago Soriana advertizing cash loans with interest rates of 141 % annually. Try getting out from under one of those
loans.)
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