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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
...whether the stories are true or not... |
I've never heard anyone deny them, Deno.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
How quickly we forget sometimes...
The week in Mexico
November 23, 2008
El Rosario shooting: Baja California's violence reached down to El Rosario, south of San Quintin. A shooting last weekend killed three people in the
small La Mijita restaurant; the proprietor, Elsa Aguilar Gerardo, 43, was mortally wounded in a hail of bullets and died in a Tijuana hospital.
And....who was responsible? and could any of you been in the cafe? |
From time to time we still hear about "Mafia" hits in places like New York city, and at one time "hits" were fairly common, but nowadays you don't
hear too much about the "Mafia" although organized crime does exist, and the "Mafia" is still around. Just look at the article below a acting crime
boss was just convicted of murder, racketeering, conspiracy and other charges only a couple of months ago.
However, I don't recall at any time in the present or the last couple of decades anybody warned about the dangers of visiting New York restaurants
especially Italian restaurants because there was just a shooting in a restaurant and the tourists could be next.
Those types of warning never occur with violent large cities like New York City. Now to be fair there use to be lots of warning about the subways in
New York late at night. And I got to tell you. I"m a lot more scared of hopping on a subway in New York than walking the streets on Mexico! I'll take
Mexico anytime of the week than jumping on a NYC subway late at night, although New York is a lot more safer than it use to be.
But I don't recall anybody yelling warnings to stay away from NYC because of the violence and the muggings of the past or present. What you certainly
never heard was to stay away places as far away as Phoenix, Arizona because there were a few violent incidents in NYC, yet this is what happens all
the time when Americans are talking about certain destinations in Mexico. For examples you'll here about a killings in Tijuana, and the "alarmist'
types will warn you about keeping away from Mexican cities like Cancun because of a few violence incidents that happened over 1000 miles away in the
border city of Tijuana.
A Mafia hit story:
_______________________________________________
Acting crime boss convicted in NYC gangland hit
(philstar.com) Updated May 17, 2011
NEW YORK (AP) - A tough-talking New York City mobster who's already serving a life sentence for attempted murder was convicted Monday in a death
penalty case accusing him of ordering a gangland killing to cement his rise to power in the Bonanno organized crime family.
read the rest here:
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=686990&pu...
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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Woooosh
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So when the US press reports crime in New York City, tourism to NYC is not impacted. But when the US press reports crime in Mexico, tourism to all
points in Mexico is severely impacted. Why is that? Could it be people trust the press in the USA to tell them what crimes are taking place in the
USA and they accept that risk- whereas they don't believe the crime reported in Mexico is the "whole story" upon which to base risk?
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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mcfez
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
...whether the stories are true or not... |
I've never heard anyone deny them, Deno. |
Ya ya DENNIS...I shot myself in the foot here. My inner thinking was really "whether the stories are true or not concerning the stuff over in the
areas of Pakistan". Just call it a brain malfunction. Stunning to happen 
To clarify....the accounts coming out of Mexico is correcto
Txs for keeping me in check. Deno
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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wessongroup
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Thanks Woooosh.. a good point on the issue... as it relates to "media" on ones actions..
However, don't think we will be taking any vacation to Pakistan ... just saying..
Would love to go... as it has some really beautiful country ... and the old "silk road" which would appear to still have a great deal of "value" as it
always has...
Check this place out and choose Pakistan's flag .. one fella had some really great pictures of his country... http://www.pbase.com/world
Had hoped upon retirement to be able to travel to all these places... however things change... so I look... at everything ... but thank God for
computers and that others share.. I have enjoyed a lot which I did not get to "go"to and physically see...
Was always an outdoors guy... worked and played outside most of my life.. and miss it very much...
Have fun... I do ...  hope you enjoy some of the pictures and maybe make some friends... I have ... in various countries.. folks are
great ... most folks love to share their country with others...
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by wessongroup]
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
So when the US press reports crime in New York City, tourism to NYC is not impacted. But when the US press reports crime in Mexico, tourism to all
points in Mexico is severely impacted. Why is that?
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I think it has a lot to do with the fact that people feel more vulnerable when traveling to an area where they don't speak the local language,
understand the culture and generally feel like outsiders looking in. Add increased reports of crime and that becomes their tipping point to just avoid
Mexico all together for many.
News reports of crime in NYC just make people change the way / times they move around town IMHO...
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
So when the US press reports crime in New York City, tourism to NYC is not impacted. But when the US press reports crime in Mexico, tourism to all
points in Mexico is severely impacted. Why is that? Could it be people trust the press in the USA to tell them what crimes are taking place in the
USA and they accept that risk- whereas they don't believe the crime reported in Mexico is the "whole story" upon which to base risk?
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by Woooosh] |
No Woooosh the casual tourists usually aren't paranoid delusional types that believe there is a news blackout on the real stories in Mexico about the
drug cartels and non stop violence. It's only the paranoid types that believe some sort of conspiracy is going on involving both governments, tourist
boards, media sources, and of course Sandra Dibble of the SDUT and other reporters who are supposedly under orders to impose a news blackout on really
what's occurring in Mexico.
The casual tourist believe the media reports about Mexico and already seen enough stories about the Mexican drug cartels, kidnappers, and very violent
cartel on cartel shootings in some places in Mexico.
The thing about the casual tourist is they don't know the details where exactly these violent events are occurring and they are not that familiar
with Mexico and so the ones who are scared off from visiting Mexico believe all of Mexico is dangerous, and they believe all of Mexico is a war zone,
because of the constant negative stories they were receiving the last few years.
Now if there are any violent news stories about New York city the people in the USA are more familiar with New York and probably been there a few
times, and maybe grew up around the area. The American tourist traveling to New York know how to put the gangland shootings stories in perceptive and
know their percentage of getting mixed up even as a witness in a gangland shooting is very low but they do keep their eyes open when traveling on the
subways late at night.
The good thing is not all of the American tourist have been scared off from vacationing in Mexico. The planes are still filled with American Tourist
flying to Mexican resorts, and that's a good thing, because Mexico is very safe for the causal tourist visiting Mexico for a one week vacation.
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Woooosh
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I think BajaGringo was onto something with the language barrier. It probably doesn't help that Mexicans are now in every city in the USA and many
Americans figure there is a reason why they all left Mexico. I'm sure the Mexican expats are badmouthing the security situation in Mexico left and
right at their places of work too- which also gives a negative perception of Mexico to Americans. It's a straight -from-the-horses-mouth thing. It
all adds up. Where there is smoke, there is fire.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
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When's the last time ya heard of 20 or so "tourists" kidnapped and executed.. in the States.
When's the last time ya heard and saw 6 guys laying by a fountain in downtown with their head's cut off next to them... in the States
When is the last time ya saw a body, with the head cut off ... hanging from the 405.. or the 5 or the... _________ in the States
When the last time ya saw a mass grave of over 150 people executed and buried in the Untied States...
When is the last time ya saw multiple DA's executed in the States...
When is the last time ya saw the incoming Head of the County's Sheriff Department ... being executed in broad day light ... that one I heard then
saw... in Rosarito ... while having my car worked on... about 125 yards from where I was sitting...
Not saying don't go... but don't p*ss down my neck and tell me it's raining...
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Roberto
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I would say yes. The kind of people who are going to stay away because of this kind of news won't differentiate.
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elgatoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
I would say yes. The kind of people who are going to stay away because of this kind of news won't differentiate. |
That's been my experience. I do not try to convince someone we know with reservations about the 'security' situation to travel down themselves but I
always volunteer to take them myself.
MAGA
marooons Are Governing America
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I think BajaGringo was onto something with the language barrier. It probably doesn't help that Mexicans are now in every city in the USA and many
Americans figure there is a reason why they all left Mexico. I'm sure the Mexican expats are badmouthing the security situation in Mexico left and
right at their places of work too- which also gives a negative perception of Mexico to Americans. It's a straight -from-the-horses-mouth thing. It
all adds up. Where there is smoke, there is fire. |
I have yet to hear other American claim Mexicans are coming to the USA because of drug cartel violence. Those types of stories are fairly new and
foreigners are smart to play the "danger" card in their home country when they are trying to gain permanent residence in the USA. It plays very well
to claim where you live is a war zone, and if you continue to live there you'll very life is at risk! ( say anything that will work seems to be the
motto)
Another way to use the scary stories to your advantage is do what that African maid who accused the IMF chief DSK of sexual assault. On the African
maid's "asylum application" she claimed she was gang raped in her home country and she couldn't go back! ( she later admitted that story was false) Of
course the federal officials that have to read these stories all day get bored, and nothing wakes them up better than to hear about rape fantasy and
they are more likely to grant the asylum after hearing a good story.
So I hope more Mexican immigrants take advantage of the drug cartel violence stories in the news to gain entrance to the USA, and a job. But how much
truth to their stories on "Asylum applications" is always going to be dubious at best.
But I think it's ridiculous to believe Mexicans are trying to immigrate to the USA because they fear drug cartel violence back home in Mexico. We got
somewhere between 12 and 25 million Mexicans in the USA, and most of them are here for jobs, and only a handful for "asylum" from the drug cartels.
I think what Mexican immigrants fear is starvation and they come to the USA for well paying jobs, or rather well paying if you compare the pay they
could earn here to what they could make in Mexico.
The reasons why Mexicans are almost in every state in the USA is because of jobs, jobs, jobs. Of course for the xenophobes, it's all about job
stealing and xenophobia.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
When's the last time ya heard of 20 or so "tourists" kidnapped and executed.. in the States.
When's the last time ya heard and saw 6 guys laying by a fountain in downtown with their head's cut off next to them... in the States
When is the last time ya saw a body, with the head cut off ... hanging from the 405.. or the 5 or the... _________ in the States
When the last time ya saw a mass grave of over 150 people executed and buried in the Untied States...
When is the last time ya saw multiple DA's executed in the States...
When is the last time ya saw the incoming Head of the County's Sheriff Department ... being executed in broad day light ... that one I heard then
saw... in Rosarito ... while having my car worked on... about 125 yards from where I was sitting...
Not saying don't go... but don't p*ss down my neck and tell me it's raining... |
Where have you been Wesson? Gov Jan Brewer said there were headless bodies in the Arizona desert!
A lot of time politicians and xenophobic haters will use divisive issues like Mexican immigration and Mexican drug cartel violence as wedge issues to
get elected on border states especially in places like Arizona have have a sizable population that fears immigrants or people who aren't like them the
most.
So what these types of haters and their ilk do is play up the violent newspaper articles in the media to keep it in the spotlight, and the newspapers
try to write things in their papers that will keep their readers keep buying their papers.
Later Gov Jan Brewer claimed almost all Mexican undocumented Aliens were drug mules! Shame on Gov Jan Brewer.
-----------
I understand Wesson that you are just afraid to go to Mexico even though you have a Mexican-American wife who could hold your hand.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup... don't think we will be taking any vacation to Pakistan ... just saying..
Would love to go... as it has some really beautiful country ... and the old "silk road" which would appear to still have a great deal of "value" as it
always has... |
I feel the same way about visiting the Holy Land. Would love to go back to Israel. Same thing about violence, media, perception... only they have
the religious overtones.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by JoeJustJoeI have yet to hear other American claim Mexicans are coming to the USA because of drug cartel violence.
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I was meaning that they won't go back home, not even for Christmas like they always used to. It used to be a pilgramage of sorts.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
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Don't know about AZ.. but, do know about Mexico ... is it your position that no headless bodies are have been found in Mexico.. is it also your
position that none of the examples I posted have occurred?
My post had nothing to do with immigration, .. and you talk about highjacking...
The post only dealt with reported "events" by the Mexican Press, and personal experience (oh, thats right you don't care for that) ... of terrible
carnage which is occurring in Mexico whether you wish to acknowledge...
On the Mexican press, which has the unique distinction of being the most dangerous place to be a reporter ... they have a higher mortality rate than
those in: Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan...
Now isn't that is a claim to fame.. HUH !!!
Thank God for the bravery, honesty and dedication of true reporters of Mexico's News.. they are a brave lot in my view... along with those that become
Mayors of town's for a week or two before they are killed, or their families are set upon by those that would do harm.. to get their way...
You should practice what you preach... just saying...
By the way they® kill priests too... and it's not for messing with children .... that should give ya a clue...
And for the wife, I took her to Baja.. the farthest down she had been was TJ (where her family came from) ... farthest we got was south of San
Antonio a few miles along the cost in a VW bus... in about 1969 .... camping out .. the two of us... did have a fear at all... in all my times down..
ever...
As I've stated my Dad started taking us kids down around 1950, when I was 8 years old.. didn't mind Mexican then and certainly don't mind them now...
By the way, our Ford Bronco is called "Brownie" my wife came up with the name... OH MY !!!
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by wessongroup]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I have yet to hear other American claim Mexicans are coming to the USA because of drug cartel violence. |
Many do. They escape the threat of kidnapping. You'll have to ask the Presidente de Tijuana why he lives in La Jolla, California.
Lots of wealthy Mexicans are NOB for the same reason...safety.
Kind of blows a hole in all the nonsense from the critics here that say the US is as dangerous as Mexico.
Ask a Mexican.
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wessongroup
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Ditto's... Dennis
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by wessongroup]
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | | Originally posted by JoeJustJoeI have yet to hear other American claim Mexicans are coming to the USA because of drug cartel violence.
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I was meaning that they won't go back home, not even for Christmas like they always used to. It used to be a pilgramage of sorts.
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So now even the Mexican nationals fear Mexico? Well I guess some do, but I bet most of them don't espeically if they go home frequently.
I have some Mexican-Americans in my family that thinks Mexico is dangerous too, and I have some that don't. The debates get interesting around the
dinner table.
But it would seem the people who visit Mexico the least or have never been there are the most scared, because the only thing they go on is the media
reports.
It just goes to show you that the media is more than doing their job. There are thousands if not millions of Americans that think Mexico is dangerous,
and will not travel there.
____
Wooosh I notice that you tend to think of only one reason why a event will or will not occur. For example you cite Mexican drug cartel violence as the
reason why many Mexicans aren't traveling back to Mexico. However, there are many factors why some Mexicans aren't returning back to Mexico:
First you have undocumented Mexicans that can't return to Mexico, because they will have to pay a "coyote" a few thousand dollars to get back in the
US, because the costs have gone up.
Second, you have the recession that hurts Mexican migrants as much as it does Americans. Mexican immigrants brought houses too and used them like
piggy banks, but they could no longer do that.
Third, they are many immigrants unemployed and can't afford to go back to Mexico, because they are looking for a job here in the US, and if they
continue to be unemployed there is no reason to return to Mexico for a visit because they might return to Mexico next year for good if they can't
find a job.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Don't know about AZ.. but, do know about Mexico ... is it your position that no headless bodies are have been found in Mexico.. is it also your
position that none of the examples I posted have occurred?
My post had nothing to do with immigration, .. and you talk about highjacking...
The post only dealt with reported "events" by the Mexican Press, and personal experience (oh, thats right you don't care for that) ... of terrible
carnage which is occurring in Mexico whether you wish to acknowledge...
On the Mexican press, which has the unique distinction of being the most dangerous place to be a reporter ... they have a higher mortality rate than
those in: Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan...
Now isn't that is a claim to fame.. HUH !!!
Thank God for the bravery, honesty and dedication of true reporters of Mexico's News.. they are a brave lot in my view... along with those that become
Mayors of town's for a week or two before they are killed, or their families are set upon by those that would do harm.. to get their way...
You should practice what you preach... just saying...
By the way they® kill priests too... and it's not for messing with children .... that should give ya a clue...
And for the wife, I took her to Baja.. the farthest down she had been was TJ (where her family came from) ... farthest we got was south of San
Antonio a few miles along the cost in a VW bus... in about 1969 .... camping out .. the two of us... did have a fear at all... in all my times down..
ever...
As I've stated my Dad started taking us kids down around 1950, when I was 8 years old.. didn't mind Mexican then and certainly don't mind them now...
By the way, our Ford Bronco is called "Brownie" my wife came up with the name... OH MY !!!
[Edited on 7-18-2011 by wessongroup] |
What are you talking about Wesson?
Regarding the brave reporters. Yeah a few Mexican reporters have been killed. Who would forget the "Zeta" reporter who was killed after reporting non
stop about Hank Rhon in the late 80's. But I haven't heard of too many stories about Mexican reporters being killed over something they wrote or
covered the last few years, and the reporters have been pretty much open about reporting about the Mexican drug cartels. The US border reporters I
doubt even go into Mexico to report, but I'm not sure? It seems many of the articles I read in the San Diego papers are Spanish translations that
have already appeared in the Baja papers.
Besides Wesson you have guys like Woooosh who are claiming a news blackout regarding Mexican cartel violence, especially on the US side. Woooosh isn't
the only one who believes there is some type of conspiracy news blackout o going on at the highest levels of government.
You even have the "alarmist" Baja bloggers upset about the so-called news blackout. And they're not always entirely wrong because some stories aren't
covered that maybe should have been covered.
So make up your mind Wesson: Are the reporters brave reporters risking their very lives reporting on the violent action of the Mexican drug cartel
violence? Or are the reporters on both sides of the border afraid of the Mexican drug cartels, but even more afraid of the corporate media bosses
that puts tape on their mouths of the reporters, and tells the Mexican, and American reporters and newpaper editors to not run anymore scary stories
about the drug cartels that's going to ruin tourism espeically US tourism to Mexico.
Wesson your wife has Mexican heritage but she only been down to Tijuana and some Baja trip in the year 1969! No comment, because this isn't the "OT"
area.
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