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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
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If the Sea of Cortez is so Bad, Tell me , where did the present Great Number of Sardines come from
I have seen that same Operation on the Sea of Cortez for 40 years. Why do the Sardines keep coming back by the Millions??
why do we have cycles of Great Fishing like over on the Pacific coast as last year??
I am referring to the Sea of Cortez not Off shore of Monterey Calif, where supposedly the oceans Sardines were all caught 50 years ago.
Just keep in mind that many{Not all} of these Spokesman are Thieves!! They like to get People upset so that those People will send them Money so they
can go on Trips.
Merry Christmas
.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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Been fishing BCS since 1986. Statistically, using my personal experience and observations as a sole random sample, I have only seen a marked
reduction to fishing over the years, especially over that last five years.
I came to the Baja to fish because the waters off Southern California had very little decent fishing in the late 80s, you know, sand bass, calico
bass, lots of mackerel, some barracuda, occasional (and I do mean occasional) yellow tail, some ling cod, and fair to good bottom fishing. The
fishing was so so then and there and I bought a 15 ft skiff to fish the waters off Orange County, Ca. That turned out to be a waste of time and a
waste of money as the fishing just deteriorated from there. I stopped fishing those waters altogether around 1995 as fishing was so poor, it was
simply a waste of time and gasoline. Stored my boat and didn't use it for 15 years until last year when I took the boat to La Paz. Turned my
attention to fishing in Baja exclusively since 1995.
Last year fishing out of La Paz was a bust.
In the late 80s, it was common to limit out on 35 lb dorado out of Loreto in the summer. Now, it's been my observation that you're lucky if you can
catch Dorado over 12 lbs each.
30 years ago, buying fish in the USA in a super market, red snapper was the lowest costing fish, freely available everywhere, Halibut, salmon and sea
bass were a little more expensive but certainly affordable, catfish was a 'junk fish' (albeit dam delicious) and not even offered for sale, swai
fillet and pampano were no where to be seen in a super market. Today, red snapper and catfish is just as expensive as farmed salmon (farmed salmon
used to be $3/lb three years ago) at not less than $6/lb, the cheapest fish is swai fillet, halibut starts at $10/lb, scallops are $12/lb, sea bass
and lobster are astronomical. In short, sea food is getting a bit closer to being prohibitive in cost. The point being that the super market prices
are reflecting the continuing scarcity of sea food in general.
Keeping my eyes and ears open, hoping that fishing will improve in the Baja, but I can't see why it would. That's not the way this vector is going.
I am starting to look else where for fishing.... maybe Costa Rica.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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sardine
I can tell you for a fact that the sardine's where wiped out of the monterey bay and I have not seen one in that part of world or has anyone else for
over 50+ year's,,,yes skeet the clycles are true in just about all thing's in life,,but have little to do with the FACT that the sea of cortez is
almost a desert now compared to what is was a few year's ago and no I dont like bad,depressing crap....and I have never had a bad sunrise over the
sea unless I see a net boat as it get's light!!
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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I bet you own a hakapik too, Skeet
Cant read this post too clearly...why dont you add some more whale oil to that oil lamp of yours.
The Monterey Bay canneries failed after the collapse of the fishing industry in Monterey Bay in the mid-1950s, which resulted from overfishing.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If the Sea of Cortez is so Bad, Tell me , where did the present Great Number of Sardines come from
I have seen that same Operation on the Sea of Cortez for 40 years. Why do the Sardines keep coming back by the Millions??
why do we have cycles of Great Fishing like over on the Pacific coast as last year??
I am referring to the Sea of Cortez not Off shore of Monterey Calif, where supposedly the oceans Sardines were all caught 50 years ago.
Just keep in mind that many{Not all} of these Spokesman are Thieves!! They like to get People upset so that those People will send them Money so they
can go on Trips.
Merry Christmas
. |
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
It seems that as the writing on the wall becomes more clear in every language, the delusional become more fixated on miraculous salvation. Homo
sapiens is in measurably deep trouble and its likely there's going to be a pretty big die-off in that species fairly soon too.
Good for the fish, and the humans too for that matter. Perhaps if the more rational of our species survive to breed and thrive on a planet with fewer
demands on its resources, their slightly more evolved frontal lobes will help them decide to make the environment a bit more of a priority next time
around. This, in my opinion, would be a good thing.
At one point I thought that HIV would be natures way of trimming the numbers, but we were too smart for it! Now I think it will probably be starvation
pushed around by sectarian warfare. I hope I'm not around when our 8 billion piles of feces hit that earthshaking fan. Too bad it can't be all
Norman Rockwell into the 24th. century or so. |
Well said amigo! Well said! And in the face of this it is still possible to say "These are the good old days". Here is to your "good old days!"
Iflyfish
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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For over 40 years I have fished the Sea of Cortez. Owned and operated a Panga for 27 Years. Commercial fished with some of the pangeros.
Yes there is a decline of Fishing out of Loreto. 20 years ago there would be as many as 80 pangas getting bait out of Loreto, but the park came in and
many of those Old time Fisherman went elsewhere.
I watched while living in San Nichalos the Fertilizer boats take out all of the Sierra then the yellowtail moved out to deeper water{some Fisherman
never go out for enough from shore} where they are still lots of Fish on their Cycle.
Ckeck out the Size of the Yellowtail and yellowfin Tuna being caught on the pacific Side.3 years ago I fished Mulege and saw Fish like they were 20
years before that.
No, the fish are there, the others will be back just like the Tons of Sardines being taken now, the Tons of Squid taken in the past 5 years.
The Sky is Not Falling!!!. Global Warming is Bull Puckey!! I want my Grandchildren to grow up on their own and make their Decesions based on What they
see and observe, not what some Ward Churchill Type Liberal College Prof. may tell them in Class!!! Or some Sierra Club Nut may Publish trying to get
them to send in a Donation!!!!
I strongly urge anyone to go to the Sea of Cortez with a boat and start investigating the Fishing{Not just within a days ride of Loreto}, You doubfull
Nuts should go out to Mercanaries Reedf{35 miles on 030 out of Loreto} and come back and tell the Truth about what you found and Observed. But I must
say that in my experience most of the Talking Nuts like MC Fez cannot Produce when the going gets Tough!!
Merry
Christmas
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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So Skeet you're saying there are plenty of fish off shore and, correct me if I'm wrong, the inshore fishery is just going through a natural cycle and
at some point it will return without the help of greenies or enforcement of the laws? I hope your rants are correct because right now the inshore
fisheries SUCK. At least in my area.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Russ:
I fished Mulege 2 and 3 years ago and caught all the Fish I needed. I saw Bait on top with Tons of Yellowtail chasing the Bait, ever saw some schools
of AmberJack on top of the Water.
Pompano out of Conception sure seems to catch a ;lot of Fish and tells it right about the decline.
It will come back. It is in a Cycle The Sierra are showing up after being taken out 20 years ago.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Yep, "it's" a hard one to come to terms with .... that being, we have dominion over everything ..... and with this dominion comes a much higher degree
of responsibility over same ... and evolution is dynamic after all ..... can hardly wait for some "informed decisions" from world leaders on this one
..... just saying
[Edited on 12-18-2011 by wessongroup]
Skeeter, your part of the 1% er's ... that b scientist who don't conclude that "human's" have impacted our planet and some of it's "cycles" ...
[Edited on 12-18-2011 by wessongroup]
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
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Mood: Fish on!
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I can read truth into both perspectives- Yes cycles affect the fisheries and somtimes dramatically. Last year in Cabo was a great example, Dec/Jan
although not a great time to fish it was miserable, no pelagics around hardly at all because the water temps were 5-10 degrees cooler than usual, La
nina?, no bait? cycles do affect the fisheries.
And the other half of the equation is true also, and very simple but not necessarily easy to solve. More people create more demand for food and thats
only going to get worse. I also beleive we are slowly destroying our environment, with that being said, Mother Nature is also very resilient if given
a chance but the thought of getting everyone to agree on a plan isn't going to happen for awhile as long as large sums of money are at stake, greed is
a powerful motivator. Another strike against recovery is modernization of the industry, when a ship can take a couple scoops and wipe out an entire
school theres not much hope.
[Edited on 12-18-2011 by castaway$]
Live Indubiously!
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
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Mood: Fish on!
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| Quote: | can hardly wait for some "informed decisions" from world leaders on this one ..... just saying
If it is brought to their attention I'm sure congress and the senate will get right on it and the problem will be solved by.......................
[Edited on 12-18-2011 by wessongroup] |
Live Indubiously!
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3151
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If the Sea of Cortez is so Bad, Tell me , where did the present Great Number of Sardines come from
. |
As it so happens, sardines are one of MY clues for the health of the local environment, too. And by my reconning, the Sea of Cortez is in deep doo
doo. When I was a kid growing up in La Paz in the 1960s, there were so many sardines along the malecon that at times it seemed you would never see a
break in their numbers for the entire walk from the Puentecito (now Molinito Park) to the Navy Base that use to be at the other end of the malecon, at
Marquez de Leon. When we went fishing at the Pemex dock, there were always schools of sardine all around the dock and bait was never an issue. That is
no longer the case at either place. There simply aren't any.
But Skeet, you go right on ahead with your dream world of never-ending cornucopian bounty. You only make those who don't know you aware of your
failing mental faculties.
Sierra nuts, indeed! I find the Texas Nut much more entertaining.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
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I do beleive that Humans as well as Animals have impacted our Planet, Just do not Share some of the same Theories of the Causes.
Yes some of the Commercial Fishing does impact certain areas, but the Sea of Cortez is a very different Place where the Fish come and go. When we see
Photos of the Fishing Boats we do not stop and think that "Where did the Tons of Sardines come From????
I think that the "Greed FActor: in our Culture is far more Harmful than any change in our Climate.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3151
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I think that the "Greed FActor: in our Culture is far more Harmful than any change in our Climate. |
I will half agree with you there, Skeet. Climate change is coming on precisely because of the greed factor of man.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
Posts: 915
Registered: 11-26-2010
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Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
For over 40 years I have fished the Sea of Cortez. Owned and operated a Panga for 27 Years. Commercial fished with some of the pangeros.
Yes there is a decline of Fishing out of Loreto. 20 years ago there would be as many as 80 pangas getting bait out of Loreto, but the park came in and
many of those Old time Fisherman went elsewhere.
I watched while living in San Nichalos the Fertilizer boats take out all of the Sierra then the yellowtail moved out to deeper water{some Fisherman
never go out for enough from shore} where they are still lots of Fish on their Cycle.
Ckeck out the Size of the Yellowtail and yellowfin Tuna being caught on the pacific Side.3 years ago I fished Mulege and saw Fish like they were 20
years before that.
No, the fish are there, the others will be back just like the Tons of Sardines being taken now, the Tons of Squid taken in the past 5 years.
The Sky is Not Falling!!!. Global Warming is Bull Puckey!! I want my Grandchildren to grow up on their own and make their Decesions based on What they
see and observe, not what some Ward Churchill Type Liberal College Prof. may tell them in Class!!! Or some Sierra Club Nut may Publish trying to get
them to send in a Donation!!!!
I strongly urge anyone to go to the Sea of Cortez with a boat and start investigating the Fishing{Not just within a days ride of Loreto}, You doubfull
Nuts should go out to Mercanaries Reedf{35 miles on 030 out of Loreto} and come back and tell the Truth about what you found and Observed. But I must
say that in my experience most of the Talking Nuts like MC Fez cannot Produce when the going gets Tough!!
Merry
Christmas |
First: Merry Christmas backatcha.....
Second: You sound exactly like my 84 yo dad......almost verbatim in several sentences....
Third: I truly hope you're correct in your vision......
Fourth: Reality just does not match up to that vision....the polar ice melts, the production of green house gasses, the record population load of 8
billion humans on the planet.......and the best example I can think of....
When you have a petri dish and place some bacteria on it, they multiply until they reach the limit of their resources, then they crash....some survive
but that expansion phase never again repeats.....it is nature, it is natural, there are smaller cycles within the larger cycle.....but it's also
really happening.......
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Another point is one that the Sierra Club and other leftist organizations never mention, and that is that we humans are a natural part of this planet
just as much as the sardines and turtles.
Yes, we can eat until a species is reduced to a point that we eat something else... but, Nature is so far stronger than man ever gives it credit for
and the animal will return if it is meant to be.
One thing for certain is change... If you live long enough, things are going to be changing before your eyes... Sardines will disappear... and perhaps
come back again more than before... The weather will seem warmer for a few years, then we will have the coldest years...
We have changed our habits and have performed differently than the past as far as limiting our take of certain species, eco-management if it proves to
benefit our ability to take from the sea on a regular basis. The co-ops of Bahia Asuncion, Abreojos, etc. seem to have it down as a science. Great!
The main point here is to have some faith in Planet Earth, not blame humans for everything, and just do the best you can at living your life.
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Eugenio
Nomad
Posts: 206
Registered: 4-23-2008
Location: Navojoa, Son.
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I guess I'm out of step (as usual) on this board - to me motoged's post wasn't really about fish or climate change per se - it was about how we tend
to romanticize the simple life. As motoged says:
"The romanticism of the situation deteriorated as I recognized their "simplicity" was poverty and suffering."
Their congenial and welcoming character notwithstanding life has always been tough for Bajacalifornianos and mexicans in general. 100 years ago - 50
years ago - today - whenever.
But I'm probably wrong on all counts.
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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
Posts: 915
Registered: 11-26-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eugenio
I guess I'm out of step (as usual) on this board - to me motoged's post wasn't really about fish or climate change per se - it was about how we tend
to romanticize the simple life. As motoged says:
"The romanticism of the situation deteriorated as I recognized their "simplicity" was poverty and suffering."
Their congenial and welcoming character notwithstanding life has always been tough for Bajacalifornianos and mexicans in general. 100 years ago - 50
years ago - today - whenever.
But I'm probably wrong on all counts. |
It's been a conversation...with a starting point.......and it's own direction....and conversations evolve........right or wrong should not be goal of
a good conversation.....it's the development and sharing of ideas, thoughts and data......and thanks for your thoughts on this conversation...as well
as motoged for starting it........
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish on!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eugenio
I guess I'm out of step (as usual) on this board - to me motoged's post wasn't really about fish or climate change per se - it was about how we tend
to romanticize the simple life. As motoged says:
"The romanticism of the situation deteriorated as I recognized their "simplicity" was poverty and suffering."
Their congenial and welcoming character notwithstanding life has always been tough for Bajacalifornianos and mexicans in general. 100 years ago - 50
years ago - today - whenever.
But I'm probably wrong on all counts. |
You are probably right however the title "The fish are gone" tends to strike a chord with many since fishing is probably the top recreational activity
of many that visit baja.
Live Indubiously!
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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Seems to me that the old saying "if youre not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" applies here. Could someone explain why it's OK for
the tens of thousand of us "sport" fishermen (includes me) to brag about filling an icechest with fish when we only need to catch and EAT one, and why
it's not OK for a commercial boat to fill it's hold with tons of fish that will feed tens of thousands of
people?________________________________________________
Bob Durrell
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