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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
      
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Dennis I have doubts that I will change much!
It is still snowing good , just came in from feeding the Horses and getting ready to pour myself a drink of Wine in my New Redneck Wine Glass!! A
little Gallo Red is good for the body.
Happy new year |
SALUD, Skeeter. Same for you and yours.
Please....don't ever change.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Skeet, take your preaching of MORALS, etc., and stick it where the sun don't shine. |
Skeet-------
Personally, I am not a religious guy, but I, for one like your preaching MORALS, if for no other reason than to remind us that there really IS such a
thing as "morals", and we all NEED to remember that.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, Skeet----and Roberto too.
Barry |
NO! We don't need reminding of an infantile interpretation of "Morals". We
are all adults here. If one is immoral, they bear that responsibility to society and eventually pay the consequences. We don't need no Texas
preachin'. |
Oh my. Toneart and I agreeing on something. Aside from infantile, I agree 100%.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Maybe ex-hippies living on welfair have time to hike for days and days? Not all of us have such disrespect for society to not work as much as we can.
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dk: people from all walks of life are go on multi-day hikes in wilderness areas: poor people, rich people, employed, unemployed, retired, liberal,
conservative, atheist, religious, etc...
last year i took 6 weeks vacation. being disrespectful never felt so good!
merry xmas to all! even to fulano and DK |
Goat, wrong target. He's talking about welfair. That's an event at the county fair. 
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
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Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
merry xmas to all! even to fulano and DK |
Why, that was very Christian of you, goat. Now say three Hail Mary's and quit your evil ways.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
      
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Doncha just love these family holidays?? Everyone's so gooey and nice.
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redhilltown
Super Nomad
  
Posts: 1130
Registered: 1-24-2009
Location: Long Beach, CA
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Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Saving if for WHO???
It is PUBLIC land... WE are the public! While there are a few people who break the rules (in all areas of life), there is no need to punish the rest
of us tax payers from enjoing the land we pay for, with repect.
Driving a 4WD or ORV on a dirt path or dirt road does 'not ruin' anything... I mean the road is already there (we cannot make new dirt roads on public
lands) for access to see and enjoy the area.
It is a great way to introduce the wilderness to everyone. Since tax payers have jobs, the use of a vehicle allows the experience in our limited off
time. Maybe ex-hippies living on welfair have time to hike for days and days? Not all of us have such disrespect for society to not work as much as we
can.
The desert is the most durable terrain on earth... a wind storm or flash flood or earthquake erases any trace of a vehicle being there. Closing down a
sand dune to dune buggies because you don't like the tracks they leave is as insane as closing down Snow Summit because of the tracks skiers leave! I
think the snow is prettier without the ski tracks on it... so we should ban snow boards and skis??? |
First of all Happy Holidays to all. Left/Right, High/Low, Green/Blue........ But DK, you are just flat out WRONG that "desert is the most durable
terrain on earth"...if anything, it is the most fragile. I can understand statements being made in the heat of the battle being skewed but you really
need to re-think this one. Everything in the desert is walking a thin line between life, death, and survival...any disruption can be costly. And this
is not to say you have some valid points that the land is public and should be used as such.
70 years later Patton's tracks are still evident in the California desert...had it been an alpine forest nothing would be seen...thousands of Mayan
sites are just gone (buried) because of the jungle taking them back. Chaco Canyon? Not so much...
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
      
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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"We have become great because of the lavish use of our resources. But the time has come to inquire seriously what will happen when our forests are
gone, when the coal, the iron, the oil, and the gas are exhausted, when the soils have still further impoverished and washed into the streams,
polluting the rivers, denuding the fields and obstructing navigation."
"I recognize the right and duty of this generation to develop and use the natural resources of our land; but I do not recognize the right to waste
them, or to rob, by wasteful use, the generations that come after us."
"Of all the questions which can come before this nation, short of the actual preservation of its existence in a great war, there is none which
compares in importance with the great central task of leaving this land even a better land for our descendants than it is for us."
"Spring would not be spring without bird songs, any more than it would be spring without buds and flowers, and I only wish that besides protecting the
songsters, the birds of the grove, the orchard, the garden and the meadow, we could also protect the birds of the sea-shore and of the wilderness."
Theodore Roosevelt, who was something of a conservative, while at the same time having rather strong "thoughts" about "Public Lands" and their use...
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
   
Posts: 3879
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"... the land is public and should be used as such."
Used? And then what?
Used - AND TAKEN CARE OF for the next generation, and the generation after that. THIS generation, and our parents', were the WORST stewards of natural
resources, public and wilderness lands, including the marine wilderness and its species. Oh so short sighted, selfish and ignorant to believe what
you do has no impact. Do you know that even your dog peeing next to a creature hole inhibits that creature to come out and feed - it thinks there is
a predator lurking - and dies. Look around, learn and have respect. It is up to YOU, individually and altruistically, to do no harm. And maybe even
some action to improve, rebuild, regenerate, clean up.
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
 
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish on!
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Without population control you can't preserve anything. The world population is exploding and the demand on the environment and resources WILL
increase, pollution will increase and species will perish.
We are the "fruit fly's in the jar" experiment, eventually we will contaminate the entire planet and exhaust all of the resources, isn't that why we
are exploring space so we can find another planet to infect.
Humans are the most unpredictable and potentially destructive force on this planet, we all have our own agendas and and push for our rights to enforce
our opinions and desires.
I have been fortunate to live in an era where we could still enjoy nature and the bounty found there whether it is gathering food, enjoying the awe of
nature or the solitude that can be found but that is vanishing and I fear for my grandkids and there children, will it all be gone? or just available
in a cyberspace cloud of pictures and video.
No I don't have any answers but I do beleive it will have to start with population control and how do you do that?
Live Indubiously!
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
    
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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Mood: Optimistic
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castaway, those are just facts ...and so... useless in any discussion today. Lo siento, amigo...you're pee-ing into the wind.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
 
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish on!
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Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
castaway, those are just facts ...and so... useless in any discussion today. Lo siento, amigo...you're pee-ing into the wind.
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Yes they are just facts, and problems with no solutions, just as the rest are opinions. Guess i'm just another Ostrich.
Live Indubiously!
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
 
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish on!
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Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
castaway, those are just facts ...and so... useless in any discussion today. Lo siento, amigo...you're pee-ing into the wind.
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Yes they are just facts, and problems with no solutions, just as the rest are opinions. Guess i'm just another Ostrich.
Live Indubiously!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
   
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Gentlmen and Scholars, and you too DENNIS!
After spending so many years on the Sea of Cortez I have stated facts about "What I have seen and experienced while Fishing and diving".
I have watched and recorded many of the movements of Yellowtail, Dorado, Cabrillo Sardines, Sharks and yes Whales.
In my Humble Opinion I do not think that the Fish , if they go, will not return ,/ The poster that presented the Photo of the Million of Sardines
being taken just Proves my Point that "The Fish are still There!! So. comeon on down you Fisherman and have an experience of a Lifetime.
That said I must say that some of the Culture changes in the States has caused me Concern. That change includes the "Massaging of the Facts to prove
a Massagers Point." And I must admit that I am offended and dissapointed by these Actions by the Younger Generation.
I would hope that any of you who doubts go down and Investigate and understand what you find then tell the Truth. You will be the Better Person for
doing so!
Have a Happy New Year
Skeet/Loreto
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Not sure about population control in the real world. Meaning enforcing numbers of children.
But, it's clear that from the perspective of environment preservation, I agree with you. It's a losing (and one I have great trouble with) battle to
control access to the environment. Why does the government have the right to do that? The government is supposed to be made up of representatives, not
owners of what belongs to the people.
In the same way, calling this and the previous generation the worst stewards of the environment misses the fact that there are so many more of us. And
I can tell you, in comparison to much of the rest of the world, the US does a sterling job. People in Europe come here and marvel at our Parks. For
good reason. There is not real wilderness left over there. At least south of Denmark.
As far as fishing goes (the original topic), we cannot control folks like pangueros who fish destructively for sustenance. Maybe by educating them to
do something different, but that is questionable. Sportfishermen have no excuse. Taking more than you can consume is irresponsible and wrong. In my
opinion. Even catch and release is questionable in my mind. Many times I have caught a fish that could not be released and expected to survive.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
      
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Gentlmen and Scholars, and you too DENNIS!
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My most humble thank yous.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
   
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"... the land is public and should be used as such."
Used? And then what?
Used - AND TAKEN CARE OF for the next generation, and the generation after that. THIS generation, and our parents', were the WORST stewards of natural
resources, public and wilderness lands, including the marine wilderness and its species. Oh so short sighted, selfish and ignorant to believe what
you do has no impact. Do you know that even your dog peeing next to a creature hole inhibits that creature to come out and feed - it thinks there is
a predator lurking - and dies. Look around, learn and have respect. It is up to YOU, individually and altruistically, to do no harm. And maybe even
some action to improve, rebuild, regenerate, clean up. |
" including the marine wilderness and its species."
Glad you included the Sea's in your informative post.
OLD information but relevant to the whole nature of things is that the U.S. conducted underwater nuclear tests (13.5 kilo-ton) off the Baja west
coast.
Although the impact on the fish not in the immediate vicinity may not have been too great I was really concerned about the mammalian population. What
this could have done to the ultra-sensitive whales particularly.
And, although we seem to have plenty of sea lions around, the San Diego sportfishing business, H & M and Pt. Loma, would sell tickets after deer
season to frustrated deer hunters to go shoot-up the seals on the weather side of North Coronado Island and watch them drop, dead or injured, into the
surf.
Not a lot of sport fish around that time of year and it paid the bills, kept the boats running.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
   
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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sea lions
hola,, sea lions are a major problem along the pacific coast and the are fed/regulated,,If you can call it that......mmmm ,,,nope its not regulated at
all unless you should shoot one,,then your ass is in doodoo,,around the monterey bay its a crisis,,but nothing is being done,,they sink,boat's dock's
and stink and are noisy,,ha,ha 2 year's ago a bunch of them crawed up on a NOAA boat and sumerged it deep enough the power heads took on water
(outboard's 300hp) but that was kept queit !!and you wonder if the feds'are trying to help the fish,,,not in my book !!!!K&T
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
     
Posts: 19923
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
hola,, sea lions are a major problem along the pacific coast and the are fed/regulated,,If you can call it that......mmmm ,,,nope its not regulated at
all unless you should shoot one,,then your burro is in doodoo,,around the monterey bay its a crisis,,but nothing is being done,,they sink,boat's
dock's and stink and are noisy,,ha,ha 2 year's ago a bunch of them crawed up on a NOAA boat and sumerged it deep enough the power heads took on water
(outboard's 300hp) but that was kept queit !!and you wonder if the feds'are trying to help the fish,,,not in my book !!!!K&T |
the sea lions are more deserving of the fish than you! it's their ocean. if you don't want sea lions pulling out onto your boat, then don't leave
your boat in their back yard!    
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
   
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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sea lions
hola, the only predator that they face ,is great whites and orca's when they are juvenile's,,,during the 60's the great whites wear hunted rather
freicly,,,so today we have a very bad problem of them be ovepopulated...if,you ,cant get a grasp on that,I will try and make it more simple for
you,,there is too many furbag's (sea lion's) and if your want argue with that,,nock,, yourself out .... K&T
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Pescador
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Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I find this discussion and the one previously where the libs and conservatives grouped up on their side of the line and took potshots at each other in
a way that reminds me of the Hatfields and McCoys. This is also a small example of what goes on in the battle for the mind and spirit of the whole
country at this point. Because civility is in such short supply, we really see the raw emotion of the split and no-one has even tried to bring it
back together. I am a student of history and found the same behaviors that split and divided people with the very same type of issues in our
relatively short history as a nation but the one issue that could always be counted on was a civility of the participants where even over issues of
slavery, which cruelly divided our country into a real civil war with bullets and death, there was a stronger attempt to understand the other side and
at least have some small point of agreement. Without that the country would have stayed divided after the Civil War and would have never come back
together again.
I am not totally sure that I have the same hope at this point. I get the chance to read 8 pages of poisoned thinking that has no understanding or
tolerance of a differing idealogy. Has the split gotten so far apart that there is no common ground of understanding. Surely those who spout the
diatribe of Global Warming have some idea that there are questions that need to be asked and that there have been misrepresentations that only made
the whole science questionable.
The same thing has happened here with people spouting that the fish are all dead and that the sky is falling while others report that things are
almost the same as always. None of that seems to hit the mark for those of us who spend 250 - 300 days a year on the water. But those of us who have
some experience and observation know that we also have a problem that gets worse every year and are actively looking for any solutions that make sense
and are realistic and ring true.
But as long as we never are able to come together in a spirit of civility and cooperation the outcome is doomed and will go nowhere anyway. Perhaps
that is the real objective afterall.
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