Iflyfish
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Mexico's Growing Middle Class
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mexicos-middle-class-is-...
Iflyfish
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CortezBlue
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Very interesting read.
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Kalypso
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The same information is covered in great detail in the book Maņana Forever? by Jorge Castaņada
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bonanza bucko
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The Mexican middle class is growing whie ours is shrinking.....wonder why?
BB
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Iflyfish
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I have spent considerable time in Queretaro and recently in Panama and can attest to the growth of the middle class in both countries and in
conversation with friends in both places it is clear that this trend exists throughout Latin America.
The unknown is whether or not the growing Mexican middle class can address the underlying structural problems of corruption and nepotism that exist on
all levels of government and commerce. If it is not able to do so then the current boom will be self limiting. In the mean time it looks to this
writer that Latin America is a good place to be investing.
I think that Baja is a bit late to the table but one can certainly see the huge influx of consumer goods now available and the improved quality of
Mexican produced goods.
A major problem of course is the ongoing battle between the cartels for lucrative trade routes. It would appear to this writer that either a
compromise with the government, a process that would no doubt involve picking winners and losers in this turf war, or legalization of drugs in the US,
a third rail politically, would be the only real game changers in the current wack a mole game being played out on Mexican streets. The outcome of
this will also have a major affect on commerce and safety in Mexico.
The cartels have huge quantities of cash that could be infused into legitimate enterprise if some solution can be achieved. As long as the economy of
drugs is underground it is difficult to tap in some other way besides laundering, a very wasteful enterprise as witnessed by the abandoned building
projects in Baja.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
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Wonder why Latin America is booming while the US struggles?
In WWII the US and it's allies had destroyed the production capacity of the two great powerhouses in the East and West, Japan and Germany. There was
therefore little competition for the goods and services produced in the USofA. The USofA engaged in numerous wars, an arms race and deregulated the
banks and wall street so that a massive house of economic cards could be built in a time of decreased manufacturing base. NAFTA has also opened up
trade as never before and now Mexico is free to engage in the manufacture of goods that it was not by treaty allowed to do.
The USofA will rise out of this near Depression and will be leaner and more productive and will continue to produce quality goods that will continue
to be in high demand. Innovation is still a very strong suit for the USofA
Iflyfish
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bonanza bucko
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I agree with all of that, Flyfish.
Here in Baja we are seeing the natural product of decent transportation which is being produced by the new road from Puetecitos to Gonzaga Bay. New
and quality building...not the start and then abandon building of the Mexican past....is sprouting up all over the place and there is at least the
strong expectation of prosperity in the population. As you said, however, that will come only if the "commerce" is not drugs.
Last spring we flew from Frankfurt, Germany to Athens, Greece over the Balkans. Looking down at those sad lands you could see poverty and the reasons
for it....the road all were crooked, unpaved and hard to use....they followed the canyons and river beds and the distance between towns was pretty
much doubled from the "as the crow flies" distance. It was obviouls that the "leadership" there cared not one bit about the people who lived there.
BB
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Wonder why Latin America is booming while the US struggles?
In WWII the US and it's allies had destroyed the production capacity of the two great powerhouses in the East and West, Japan and Germany. There was
therefore little competition for the goods and services produced in the USofA. The USofA engaged in numerous wars, an arms race and deregulated the
banks and wall street so that a massive house of economic cards could be built in a time of decreased manufacturing base. NAFTA has also opened up
trade as never before and now Mexico is free to engage in the manufacture of goods that it was not by treaty allowed to do.
The USofA will rise out of this near Depression and will be leaner and more productive and will continue to produce quality goods that will continue
to be in high demand. Innovation is still a very strong suit for the USofA
Iflyfish |
Your summation is interesting and I'm in agreement with most of it (although I would have mentioned that our allies manufacturing base was also
destroyed, but you imply it when you mention the US alone emerged from WWII with its industrial infrastructure intact).
But I am curious about those treaties that have kept Mexico from pursuing its manufacturing potential until NAFTA came along. Which would those be?
I'm also wondering about the quality goods the US will continue to manufacture once this most recent economic crisis is resolved since the empirical
evidence suggests otherwise if we continue to follow our current trade policies.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: |
...to Athens, Greece over the Balkans. Looking down at those sad lands you could see poverty and the reasons for it....the road all were crooked,
unpaved and hard to use....they followed the canyons and river beds and the distance between towns was pretty much doubled from the "as the crow
flies" distance. It was obviouls that the "leadership" there cared not one bit about the people who lived there.
BB |
Actually, what ails those regions has little to do with crooked roads following rivers and much to do with the current world economic order--but I
agree that their leadership has helped much in the process of getting to where they are today. International power brokers (often called "investors"
or "transnational corporations") look for local elites (or often, promote their own among the local people) who can be recognized as the leaders of a
given region/people by the powers-that-be and are then used to assist in raping the lands/local economy while enriching these local elites and, of
course, their international sponsors. But such exploitations are never sustainable, and we are now witnessing in those regions what such "development"
produces as its end result.
In fact, such economic theories as Dependency (Andre Gunder Frank) or World Systems Theory (Emmanuel Wallerstein) point out that when transnational
corporations go into developing nations, one of the first things they do (right after coopting the local elites) is improve the infrastructure
connecting sources of raw materials with newly-built port facilities. We saw this in Mexico in the early 1900s when a rail road was built to connect
the heartland of the nation's raw resources to our own southern border. President Marcos of the Philippines had a brutal 20-year dictatorship thanks
to this arrangement, too. His chief international sponsor: the US government.
What is best for the local people is NEVER taken into consideration in this type of development model. Any benefit they get out of it is nothing more
than a happy coincidence.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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805gregg
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You have to remember in Mexico earning $7000 a year is considered middle class.
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mes1952
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If you have any doubt about the Mexican middle class buying power, just go across the border to the Costcos, Walmarts, Petcos, Petsmarts, etc. and you
find that there are more Mexicans buying more products than Americans. I live in a middle class apartment building in Rosarito and half the
tenants/owners are Mexican. And most tourist destinations here in Baja are frequented more by Mexicans than Americans.
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J.P.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 805gregg
You have to remember in Mexico earning $7000 a year is considered middle class. |
7,000dls.
In Mexico maybe, Its hard to compare Baja to the Mainland.
I have lived in Baja N. for almost 9 years.
Every time I go shopping I notice the local population out shopping and it's impresive the monies they have at thier disposal . If I had to live on
7,000 a year It would be possible.
I find it hard to accept the attitude of some that compare the U.S. living standard to that of a foriegn country. it,s unrealistic and not fair to
the people of that land
Just stop and think why is their money worth more or less than yours. and go from there.
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805gregg
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Did you ever think that it might be the trickle down effect of the narco drug trade? Australia is booming, they are mining in western Australia for
the Chinese, some 5 billion invested by the Chinese. So a guy driving a mining dump truck is making about $10,000 per month, he buys, houses, cars,
services,etc., that money eventually makes it to the east coast, they have more money to spend, etc. Is the narco money helping to drive the Mexican
surge? I spent a few days in Mazatlan a couple of years ago, we were one of 2 US couples at the beachfront resort. The rest were alligator shoes and
belt wearing Mexicans, all driving large SUV's, middle class or drug money?
[Edited on 3-21-2012 by 805gregg]
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 805gregg
Did you ever think that it might be the trickle down effect of the narco drug trade? |
Yes, all the time.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Iflyfish
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This addresses the issue of how treaties, trade policies, etc. have affected the history of trade between the US and Mexico prior to NAFTA. It's a new
ball game.
http://american-business.org/536-maquiladoras.html
Iflyfish
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MitchMan
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I read once that La Paz has the highest per capita income in all of Mexico. Compared to 12 years ago, I am seeing more and more new big cars on the
streets of La Paz. Calibur of cars in the parking lots and on the streets of La Paz don't look much different that those in the US. In La Paz, they
are building more and more retail stores than ever before, certainly at a higher rate than in Orange County, California.
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
This addresses the issue of how treaties, trade policies, etc. have affected the history of trade between the US and Mexico prior to NAFTA. It's a new
ball game.
http://american-business.org/536-maquiladoras.html
Iflyfish |
Yes, it is as I remember from my readings. Mexico wasn't prevented from industrializing because of trade treaties signed with other nations. They DID
industrialize; it was called Import Substitution Industrialization (ISI). They were trying to compete with manufactured items from (most notably) the
US. Since they couldn't do it with a quality product, they tried to compete through pricing. Protectionistic legislation was passed that made imported
items much more expensive than what was made in country. The result was a market for the rich (imported items) and a market for the poor.
Of course, now, with open borders and all that, the two-market system is taking place at the source; manufacturers produce products for developed
nations and products for developing nations. The Nissan vehicles produced in Mexico for the home market have little in common with those made to be
exported from Mexico. For instance, the engines tend to be less performance-oriented and more utilitarian, using push rods instead of overhead cams.
The stereos, refrigerators, etc that are destined for the first world are a better product than what is sold locally. What I find most interesting is
that the price I pay for first-rate merchandise in the US is about the same that I would have paid for an inferior product in Mexico. Rich people
still have the option of importing their own stuff from abroad.
I won't even start with what is wrong with the NAFTA treaty, that's a whole 'nother subject. Lets just say that we have returned full circle to the
era of the Porfiriato, and it will likely end similarly.
[Edited on 3-20-2012 by Bajatripper]
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Bajahowodd
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Some interesting and perceptive comments in this thread.
From my perspective, there may well come a time in the not too distant future when the wealth of Mexicans and that of the US intersect, as one
declines and the other increases.
Everyone in the world needs "stuff". Someone has to make that stuff. In the past few decades, as manufacturing has increased in Mexico, it has
continued to decline in the US.
Fact is that the US middle class was late to awaken to what was happening, as jobs were continually being shipped offshore, simply because to
artificial housing and real estate boom (bubble) allowed people to substitute this ephemeral wealth for real wealth.
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Barry A.
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"real wealth"??? So, Howard, are you stocking up on Silver and Gold? 
Barry
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J.P.
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A few weeks ago I was in Ensenada shopping , we were at the Levi store , and I was shopping for a Levi jacket, which they didnt have. The clerk a nice
young man that spoke better English than I do told me that Levi's are now made in China and were harder for them to get, but that had all changed as
of a few weeks before and now they could import directly from China.
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