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vgabndo
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Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Bilingualism is GOOD for us!
I'm all for postponing degenerative mental disorder....
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/the-benefit...
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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DENNIS
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If all effort put into bilingualism was put into a more efficient unilingualism, I think the speaker would be more rich for his/her efforts.
The language itself would benefit as well rather than suffering for atrophy as it seems to be doing today.
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bent-rim
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Location: Marin County
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I've always admired people who spoke more than one language. I can never seem to put more than 4 to 5 words together of a foreign language. I have
friends in Europe that can speak multiple languages fluently and effortlessly. And their grammar is spot on in English.
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motoged
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To have another language is to possess a second soul...Charlemagne
Don't believe everything you think....
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Bajaboy
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Our kids will be entering school soon with dual immersion from kindergarten through eighth grade. It's a great and very sought after program.
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Iflyfish
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Kids are capable of learning multiple languages at the same time, I think that the figure I read is about five. They tend to be slower with language
production but when they produce....look out!!
We are born with some inate capacity to understand language structure and can hang many languages on that structure, placement of nouns, verbs,
articles etc. but loose the capacity for production of certain sounds after a certain age (5??), there may be linguists on this board with the
specifics. For instance Asian languages like Thai are monosylobic/ polyphonic, that is one phonym is given different accent and it has an entirely
different meaning. Pho is the ubiquitous peasant food of Viet Nam. How you pronounce that "o" is important to what the word means. If said one way,
with the "o" UP, it means the soup, if said in another way it means a specific female body part, I know this by having a teenage girl waitress blanch
and tell me I can't say that, when I tried again for the umteenth time to order the soup in Vietnamese. I still can't trill a decent R in Spanish and
doubt I will ever master it. The best I can do is make a sound that I am sure comes accross as though I am halking a luggie. We simply lose the
capacity to formulate required sounds as we age. This of course speaks to the importance of multiple language education in early childhood,
particulary with the monosylobic/polyphonic languages of the now not so Far East.
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vandenberg
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I'm Dutch born and didn't leave the Netherlands till I was 25. Am well educated in Holland and could converse in German fairly well. Dutch and German
languages are fairly similar, although folks cannot understand each other unless taught.
For some reason I always had trouble with Roman languages, almost like a mental block. Studied French for 6 years and still can hardly ask where the
bathroom is. Have the identical problem with Spanish. I have a brother in law who lives in Canada. He and my sister have a place in Dominica and vist
there for maybe 4 weeks a year. He carries on phone conversations in Spanish with people he knows there. And he ain't the sharpest knife in the
drawer. ( he doesn't know about this forum. :biggrin
Never had any problems with English. Makes you wonder. 
[Edited on 3-26-2012 by vandenberg]
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sancho
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I've gleened a certain low level working Spanish
travelling Mex, mostly by bus. I think the only way
one can get to reach any fluent point is to live SOB.
Heard the other day a fish oil pill is good for folks
of a certain age, I kinda remember when I was
young
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David K
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Since the public school are passing kids who don't know the importance of the American constitution, what President Lincoln did, how to add fractions,
or can spell in English... what make anyone think adding dual language education will make them better?
Spanish was taught in Jr. high, and was offered in high school for 4 years (4 levels) back in the 70's to those of us who were interested in it.
Sadly, the public school system has become something far different today... social re-engineering young minds into believing in government control and
how bad America is and explorers like Christopher Colunbus were... it is sickening.
Until they can teach the kids the basics (which they aren't very well), best not to make things harder on the teachers or the students with
biligualism.
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Bajaboy
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Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Since the public school are passing kids who don't know the importance of the American constitution, what President Lincoln did, how to add fractions,
or can spell in English... what make anyone think adding dual language education will make them better?
Spanish was taught in Jr. high, and was offered in high school for 4 years (4 levels) back in the 70's to those of us who were interested in it.
Sadly, the public school system has become something far different today... social re-engineering young minds into believing in government control and
how bad America is and explorers like Christopher Colunbus were... it is sickening.
Until they can teach the kids the basics (which they aren't very well), best not to make things harder on the teachers or the students with
biligualism. |
Study after study shows that kids who are multi-lingual score much better on tests and are more likely to attend college. And by the way, Columbus
did not discover the United States....
Increasing class sizes does though dramatically affect teacher effectiveness.
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David K
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I didn't say he did... I called him an explorer (he was also a map maker)...
If it makes kids learn the basics, then great. As it is now, (in some places) the kids can't even find where they live on a world map.
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DENNIS
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Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Study after study shows that kids who are multi-lingual score much better on tests and are more likely to attend college. |
I've been trying every way I can imagine to see how this would be valid and I come up with nothing unless the specific cultures in question are the
subject.
I mean....ten times ten is a hundred in all languages....I think.
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Bajaboy
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Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Study after study shows that kids who are multi-lingual score much better on tests and are more likely to attend college. |
I've been trying every way I can imagine to see how this would be valid and I come up with nothing unless the specific cultures in question are the
subject.
I mean....ten times ten is a hundred in all languages....I think. |
Benefits of Bilingualism (http://www.tcsd.org/education/components/scrapbook/default.p...)
Higher academic achievement on standardized tests (Robinson, 1992; Cooper, 1987; Armstrong & Rogers 1997; etc)
Increased ability in English (Marcos, K., 1998; Dumas, L., 1999)
Beneficial to the development of reading abilities (D'Angiulli, et al., 2001; Diaz, 1982)
Increased general intelligence and IQ scores (Samuels & Friffore, 1979; Peal & Lambert, 1962)
Improved ability to hypothesize in science (Kessler & Quinn, 1980)
Higher SAT and ACT scores (Robinson, 1992; Cooper, 1987; Eddy, 1981; Olsen & Brown, 1992; etc.)
Improved performance at the post-secondary levels (Wiley, 1985)
Improved cognitive abilities (Curtain, 1990; Genesee & Cloud, 1998; Bamford & Mizokawa, 1991; Barik & Swain, 1976; etc.)
Enhanced memory skills (Kormi-Nouri, et al. 2003)
Increased problem solving ability (Stephens & Esquivel, 1997)
Improved verbal and spatial abilities (Diaz, 1982)
Increased cultural awareness and cross-cultural competencies
Expanded career opportunities
These benefits and more can be explored at the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages website, specifically:
http://www.actfl.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=4524
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DENNIS
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Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
These benefits and more can be explored at the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages website, specifically:
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In that case, I'll question their objectivity. Nothing supports robust funding quite like robust success.
Not saying I disagree, Zac. Just wondering why anyone would have better cognitive skills as a result of speaking and understanding more than one
language...unless, of course, the questions used to determine the benefits of bilinguality are asked in both languages.
Are they?
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DENNIS
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Quote: | Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
times ten is a hundred in all languages....I think. |
I don't know how far you've gotten into Spanish, but have you not noticed that it's changed the way you think?
In problem solving situations where there are multiple ways to possibly multiple solutions, I can see how the experience with another language would
increase effectiveness. |
I'm into it to the point that I feel qualified to ask who engages in self-talk in more than one language at a time?
Does it wash that a question asked in English which stumps the subject become more clear when asked in Spanish?
Give me one example that isn't culture specific.
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Bajaboy
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Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
These benefits and more can be explored at the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages website, specifically:
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In that case, I'll question their objectivity. Nothing supports robust funding quite like robust success.
Not saying I disagree, Zac. Just wondering why anyone would have better cognitive skills as a result of speaking and understanding more than one
language...unless, of course, the questions used to determine the benefits of bilinguality are asked in both languages.
Are they? |
Dennis, here is an oversimplified example...imagine exposing a child to only one syllable words versus a child who is exposed to unlimited words...who
will more likely succeed? Do you agree that children who read are more likely to succeed than those that don't? Seems pretty obvious to me.
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DENNIS
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Isn't it a result of culture amalgamation that has resulted in Spanglish? I believe the phenomenon is as much a quest for efficiency as a by-product
of sloppy cultural interchange.
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woody with a view
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two points:
when i was in a catholic school k-6th we had 30ish students to a classroom. i still learned to read better than my OB Elementary going buddies. i've
gone 1/2 way thru college but after that, success is determined by the individual. i feel good about what i have/haven't accomplished.
the first phrase i learned in Spanglish was, "como estas frijoles? = how you been!" :
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DENNIS
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Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Dennis, here is an oversimplified example...imagine exposing a child to only one syllable words versus a child who is exposed to unlimited words...who
will more likely succeed?
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Well....I doubt you would try to measure the IQ of a child by giving him/her a bunch of pegs with no holes to stick them into, so I think I can deal
with something more advanced than "oversimplified."
Quote: |
Do you agree that children who read are more likely to succeed than those that don't? |
Depends on what you mean by "succeed"........I suppose. Everybody can't have a PhD. They're relative evaluations. It's just like, "Everybody can't
be rich. In fact no one can be "rich" if there are no "poor."
Straying from the point.
Zac....I'm going to assume you have no foreign language skills....only for the sake of conversation.
You're a school teacher. Would you be at a higher level in your career had you been bilingual while learning your skills?
If yes....why?
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Bajaboy
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Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Dennis, here is an oversimplified example...imagine exposing a child to only one syllable words versus a child who is exposed to unlimited words...who
will more likely succeed?
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Well....I doubt you would try to measure the IQ of a child by giving him/her a bunch of pegs with no holes to stick them into, so I think I can deal
with something more advanced than "oversimplified."
Quote: |
Do you agree that children who read are more likely to succeed than those that don't? |
Depends on what you mean by "succeed"........I suppose. Everybody can't have a PhD. They're relative evaluations. It's just like, "Everybody can't
be rich. In fact no one can be "rich" if there are no "poor."
Straying from the point.
Zac....I'm going to assume you have no foreign language skills....only for the sake of conversation.
You're a school teacher. Would you be at a higher level in your career had you been bilingual while learning your skills?
If yes....why? |
I am not equating career success to language acquisition. I am merely relating to cognitive development. Would I be a better teacher if I were
multilingual? No question about it.
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