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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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There is a lot of truth there Mr. Goat.
I like this graphic. http://costoftaxcuts.com/
And, as pointed out earlier, the last GOP President to leave office without raising the federal deficit as a % of the GDP was FREEKING Nixon. Every
Dem. until Obama has been able to bring it down a little. Trying to pay for two GOP wars which the Republicans conveniently forgot to count as part
of their budgets has been quite a challenge. If the conservatives had PAID for the invasion of Iraq instead of borrowing the money from the Communist
Chinese, President Obama's accomplishments could look much better.
I have to admit that I get a little peeie when these days it seems damned hard to find ANYONE who will ADMIT they voted for GW Bush. Who do they
think did this Patriot Act stuff? The Christian Dominionist voting machines weren't able to do THAT much in 2000. And, have you noticed that three
of the main folks involved in throwing the 2000 election have died young in strange accidents? And the guy who had the voting machine with the paper
trail, died 48 hours after he announced it was tested and ready!
When we finally learn the truth; Well, some of us already assumed.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
So Boxer is a fascist? Or is she a real left wing liberal? She cannot be both.
Personally, I see this as an attempt to prevent scofflaws from fleeing the country without paying what they legally owe.
The no passport required to flee the US is a bogus argument simply because fleeing to Mexico or Canada does not get you to an extradition-free
country.
As for the Senate and budgets and Obama, let's focus on a couple of hard facts. Number one, although the Dems have a plurality in the Senate, it is
not enough to prevent filibuster. And that is the treat the Repubs have made at every turn. Add to that the fact that Mitch McConnell went on record
after the Obama election saying that the number one priority of his party was to ensure that Obama was not reelected. McConnell and Boehner have
worked long and hard at that; the welfare of the nation be damned. |
That is not the reason.
Call your Democratic senator and ask them why they won't bring forward a budget.
Harry Reid is protecting some of his flock from the scorn of their constituents if they attempt to pass a budget that is not serious and continues
huge deficits.
That is why the budget Obama put forward, got dumped on arrival with ZERO democratic votes. No one wanted to touch it for fear of voter backlash.
Paul Ryan puts forth a budget and is hung from the yardarm for being serious about the spending.
It's unfortunate the liberal Senate is not. |
Please explain where the revenue will come from to cover more tax cuts for the rich? How does this cut the deficit? It doesn't...just more right
ring rhetoric to appease the simpletons and reward the one percent. |
Less taxes and less regulations would lead to a more robust economic growth, which in turn would lead to a growing revenue stream.
A growing revenue stream with LEVEL or reduced spending, would end the cycle of year to year deficits.
No amount of taxation, on one section of taxpayers alone, will do anything to bring the cycle of "hope and change" deficit spending under control.
When you have to resort to personal insults like the Hook did, you have lost all your credibility to have an adult conversation.
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What should the tax rates be? How many jobs will be created? What specific regulations will create more jobs? Didn't Bush and the Republican say
exactly the same thing....and what did we get....well I suppose it all depends on your income bracket.
How about if we go back to the rates during Reagan? Sorry if you took offense to my remarks but I stand them.....
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
So Boxer is a fascist? Or is she a real left wing liberal? She cannot be both.
Personally, I see this as an attempt to prevent scofflaws from fleeing the country without paying what they legally owe.
The no passport required to flee the US is a bogus argument simply because fleeing to Mexico or Canada does not get you to an extradition-free
country.
As for the Senate and budgets and Obama, let's focus on a couple of hard facts. Number one, although the Dems have a plurality in the Senate, it is
not enough to prevent filibuster. And that is the treat the Repubs have made at every turn. Add to that the fact that Mitch McConnell went on record
after the Obama election saying that the number one priority of his party was to ensure that Obama was not reelected. McConnell and Boehner have
worked long and hard at that; the welfare of the nation be damned. |
That is not the reason.
Call your Democratic senator and ask them why they won't bring forward a budget.
Harry Reid is protecting some of his flock from the scorn of their constituents if they attempt to pass a budget that is not serious and continues
huge deficits.
That is why the budget Obama put forward, got dumped on arrival with ZERO democratic votes. No one wanted to touch it for fear of voter backlash.
Paul Ryan puts forth a budget and is hung from the yardarm for being serious about the spending.
It's unfortunate the liberal Senate is not. |
Please explain where the revenue will come from to cover more tax cuts for the rich? How does this cut the deficit? It doesn't...just more right
ring rhetoric to appease the simpletons and reward the one percent. |
Less taxes and less regulations would lead to a more robust economic growth, which in turn would lead to a growing revenue stream.
A growing revenue stream with LEVEL or reduced spending, would end the cycle of year to year deficits.
No amount of taxation, on one section of taxpayers alone, will do anything to bring the cycle of "hope and change" deficit spending under control.
When you have to resort to personal insults like the Hook did, you have lost all your credibility to have an adult conversation.
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It is hopeless, as he will say you just watch Fox News (who have liberals and conservatives for balance)...
I have never been hired by a poor person. Rich people are the ones who create jobs for us that doesn't come from tax payer dollars... ie. the real
economy. I also know that if I do what it takes, in America I could become rich, too... WE are an equal opportunity country. |
A couple of questions for the professor....
So which socioeconomic group prospered the most in the last 10-20 years? Answer: the rich. How many more tax breaks do they need? Put a number out
there instead of rhetoric.
Next, who pay the salaries of teachers, judges, fire fighters, soldiers, meat inspectors, social workers, astronauts.....? Answer: taxpayers. If we
cut taxes, how do we pay for these services? Or are you suggesting we eliminate these jobs and just continue to reward the rich?
DK-how have you prospered under the Republican plan?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Try and follow me, Zac... last time:
1) People who are out of work don't pay taxes.
2) Businesses will not commit to growth and hiring when the future tax rate is being threatened to INCREASE (as this regime in control wants).
3) More people working brings in MORE money than raising the taxes on the fewer businesses... which will put the business under or at least keep them
from hiring more people.
Example:
In California, run my liberals... businesses are closing or leaving for other states with lower taxes and fewer regulations.
In Texas, run by conservatives... businesses have been growing and hiring.
Quiz:
Which state has more tax money coming into the treasury (to pay for teachers, firemen, good roads, etc.)
a) The state with the higher corporate taxes.
b) The state with the lower corporate taxes.
Take as much time as you need... but if over 3 seconds, I worry.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Try and follow me, Zac... last time:
1) People who are out of work don't pay taxes.
2) Businesses will not commit to growth and hiring when the future tax rate is being threatened to INCREASE (as this regime in control wants).
3) More people working brings in MORE money than raising the taxes on the fewer businesses... which will put the business under or at least keep them
from hiring more people.
Example:
In California, run my liberals... businesses are closing or leaving for other states with lower taxes and fewer regulations.
In Texas, run by conservatives... businesses have been growing and hiring.
Quiz:
Which state has more tax money coming into the treasury (to pay for teachers, firemen, good roads, etc.)
a) The state with the higher corporate taxes.
b) The state with the lower corporate taxes.
Take as much time as you need... but if over 3 seconds, I worry. |
I asked three simple questions...... Again how has the Republican party
helped you in the last 10 years.....
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1603
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
Member Is Offline
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Pretty easy to separate the "Tax Dollar Parasites" from the "Tax Dollar Producers" on this thread. And no, paying taxes on a tax dollar derived income
is not the same as paying taxes with money actually gained by producing wealth. Most tax dollar parasites have never signed the front side of a
payroll check, so have no concept of how wealth is actually produced.
Of course , just as in nature, some parasites are needed to service the requirements of the producers. The problem now is the parasites have
proliferated beyond the ability of the producers to support them. Somewhat the same situation as the insects sucking the lifeblood out of the northern
Caribou herds periodically.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Zac, I was BUSY during the years when the Republican were in a majority in congress. On one income, I was able to provide for my kids and I... I DO
NOT SEEK OR WANT HELP from a political party... I want America to prosper because of FREEDOM.
When excessive taxes are dropped, when rediculous regulations on business or property are removed, when congress doesn't mess with free enterprise
going beyond their constitutional duties (to protect us from force or fraud)... then we ALL prosper.
The Republican party helped me, by staying out of my way and out of my customer's way to allow us to grow and be more free and prosperous.
When they began spending (like democrats) during the Bush II second term, and he (not a fiscal conservative) didn't veto their bills... they got voted
OUT (2006 mid term)... From 2007+, when the democrats were in control of congress... and demanded banks to loan money to people who obviously couldn't
repay the loans (Dodd, Frank ammendment)... it all started going down the crapper... for the first time my business started dropping every year...
Put Republicans back in control of the senate, and we may finally get a budget passed...
Now, answer my quiz.. a or b ?
[Edited on 4-6-2012 by David K]
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
So Boxer is a fascist? Or is she a real left wing liberal? She cannot be both.
Personally, I see this as an attempt to prevent scofflaws from fleeing the country without paying what they legally owe.
The no passport required to flee the US is a bogus argument simply because fleeing to Mexico or Canada does not get you to an extradition-free
country.
As for the Senate and budgets and Obama, let's focus on a couple of hard facts. Number one, although the Dems have a plurality in the Senate, it is
not enough to prevent filibuster. And that is the treat the Repubs have made at every turn. Add to that the fact that Mitch McConnell went on record
after the Obama election saying that the number one priority of his party was to ensure that Obama was not reelected. McConnell and Boehner have
worked long and hard at that; the welfare of the nation be damned. |
That is not the reason.
Call your Democratic senator and ask them why they won't bring forward a budget.
Harry Reid is protecting some of his flock from the scorn of their constituents if they attempt to pass a budget that is not serious and continues
huge deficits.
That is why the budget Obama put forward, got dumped on arrival with ZERO democratic votes. No one wanted to touch it for fear of voter backlash.
Paul Ryan puts forth a budget and is hung from the yardarm for being serious about the spending.
It's unfortunate the liberal Senate is not. |
Please explain where the revenue will come from to cover more tax cuts for the rich? How does this cut the deficit? It doesn't...just more right
ring rhetoric to appease the simpletons and reward the one percent. |
Less taxes and less regulations would lead to a more robust economic growth, which in turn would lead to a growing revenue stream.
A growing revenue stream with LEVEL or reduced spending, would end the cycle of year to year deficits.
No amount of taxation, on one section of taxpayers alone, will do anything to bring the cycle of "hope and change" deficit spending under control.
When you have to resort to personal insults like the Hook did, you have lost all your credibility to have an adult conversation.
|
What should the tax rates be? How many jobs will be created? What specific regulations will create more jobs? Didn't Bush and the Republican say
exactly the same thing....and what did we get....well I suppose it all depends on your income bracket.
How about if we go back to the rates during Reagan? Sorry if you took offense to my remarks but I stand them..... |
I never take offense at folks comments or opinions...
What I do take offense is that your lowered yourself to insult millions of people, including me, who happen to think different than you.
Just like the Hook...he got on his knees and slid along the gutter of personal insults to make a point. Shame on him and shame on you.
Your opinion is fine....to slither in the gutter while tossing insults, only limits the conversation, rather than advance it.
Take no offense ok?...just stay out of the insult gutter and your opinions might carry more weight.
I have no clue what the tax rates should be and have zero inclination to fire up a calculator to find out.
However I do know that when 50% of taxpayers pay ZERO income tax, that just might be problematic in the grand scheme of things.
You can school yourself on what regulations might deter growth. I am not here to school you and provide you fodder for some liberal talking points.
However, if you care to ask a business owner who relocated out of CA for tax and regulation relief, you may come across your answers.
In case you didn't realize it or won't, Bush was sailing along just fine, despite a couple of wars and a natural disaster.
When the house came down, it was not a Bush's doing.
Does the housing bubble crash ring a bell? Remember Acorn storming bank exec's homes to demand they loan to deadbeats? Remember Barney saying Fannie
was fine? Remember members of the black congressional congress (liberals) going nuts that blacks should get a home loan...even though it was plain
they could not afford the payments?
When you speak of taxing the wealthy as a solution, and you don't address that 50%, who pay ZERO income tax, then it's game over and your just playing
partisan politics.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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SPOT ON, David K. Bravo!!!!!! It's not more "help" we are looking for, or more regulations, it's FREEDOM to pursue success!!!
I will never understand why that is so hard to understand by some.
Barry
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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You do have the freedom to pursue. Some made good choices. some bad... I am Happy. I made good choices. And I don't mind paying taxes ( I do resent
fraud, in government and business).
It might be harder today, and you might have to change career paths but the freedom to choose is still there. It did not go away.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
You do have the freedom to pursue. Some made good choices. some bad... I am Happy. I made good choices. And I don't mind paying taxes ( I do resent
fraud, in government and business).
It might be harder today, and you might have to change career paths but the freedom to choose is still there. It did not go away.
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I too don't mind paying taxes as long as everybody else is too. But like you, I am dismayed at the WAY the Govt. spends my taxes, on on what they
spend it on. "fraud" seems to be in the mind of the beholder. Many things branded as "fraud" today I don't think meets the definition as I understand
it. I have always been a "buyer beware" kind of guy. Do your homework, and remember what you learn.
Barry
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Taxes. I pay my share, fed, state, county etc. No problem. Glad to be able to. But!!!! I do have a problem with how my tax $$'s are spent. I can pee
my own money away!! Will possibly get some enjoyment out of it. Let me keep and spend my own money. Might even be able burn a dollar or two down in
Baja.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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Taxes. Some do. But as you look around with the unjaded eye, you might see some of the most vocal around you don't work enough to pay income tax or
evade taxes through under the table payments, they don't own a home so no property tax, and have no assets. Hence, only sales taxes... and oh do
they scream.
I have a problem with people like this...the invisible leech upon society.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Taxes. Some do. But as you look around with the unjaded eye, you might see some of the most vocal around you don't work enough to pay income tax or
evade taxes through under the table payments, they don't own a home so no property tax, and have no assets. Hence, only sales taxes... and oh do
they scream.
I have a problem with people like this...the invisible leech upon society. |
Me to. They also sell their food stamps at .50 on the dollar for cash. Now they can spend the cash on drugs, etc.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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But Cypress, they aren't all on food stamps. Some don't want that visibility
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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rts551, And?? They want to be invisible? Me too. But, I'm spending my own money, not the taxpayers.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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"The extent to which taxpayers underreport their gross income represents taxes that go unpaid every year. The IRS and the Economic Policy Institute
estimate the amount of taxes owed but not paid at $353 billion, equal to about 15% of the total taxes owed. These taxes not paid through our
“voluntary and timely” system of taxation are often known as the “tax gap.”" - The CPA Journal
Largest amount?
Underreported business income: $155 billion. This represents taxes owed by small businesses and self-employed individuals.
[Edited on 4-7-2012 by rts551]
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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BARBARA BOXER'S OFFICE WASHINGTON D.C. JANUARY 2002
"Hello, Barbara Boxer's office"
"Hi, I am a constituent calling about a problem that I am having with social security".
"Sir, you are not a female"
"No of course not"
"Are you a minority?"
No, I'm Caucasian"
"Are you gay"
"No"
"Then sir, I am afraid this office cannot help you".
"Is this Barbara Boxer's general office or a special minority branch office?"
"This is Senator Boxer's regular office sir"
"Then you cannot help me?"
"No I'm afraid not"
THIS IS SO HELP ME A WORD-FOR-WORD ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE (VERBATIM) TRANSCRIPT OF MY CONVERSATION WITH BARBARA BOXER'S OFFICE.
Dianne Feinstein herself stepped in almost immediately and helped me. Her staff was flabbergasted with my story.
BOXER CAN TAKE A FLYING LEAP AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED! SCREW HER AND HER DEMENTED POLITICAL ORIENTATION
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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ObamaBucks! that is the future!!!!
why are we all punching at each other? like a blind man in a swarm of bees? these F*ing politicians know if they make us hate each other, and hate
what we stand for that they will have a generation to enrich themselves. more so than the past generations.....
did congress REALLY need a law to say they could not trade securities based on the info they heard while sitting in on some meeting?
get the $ out of politics and your kids might have a chance.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Why didn't Zac answer me? Come on Zac, it is really easy and you know the answer...
Alas, I just will be glad when this nightmare on America ends... The world is counting on us to be the beacon of hope and freedom... it does no one
any good to have us slip into third world poverty.
It can get better even without lowering personal income taxes more, by lowering federal spending! Stop spending more than they take in, problem
solved.
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