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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Igor, it is beautiful... Do you know if it is mentioned in Harry Crosby's Cave Painting books at all? The very same types of figures are in other cave
sites, but I didn't see any photos exactly the same (in his newer edition). Oh, and not to worry... if I find it in a book, I won't disclose the
location on Nomad.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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Here's a picture in slightly different lighting conditions, and a different angle:
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Have seen rock paintings in various places. Can it be that they're ancient versions of modern graffito? Nothing more, nothing less? I think maybe the tribes could produce someone with a little more artistc
ability. Most of those rock drawings could have been done by a 5 yr. old. They
could chip rocks into fine arrow heads and tools but only make stick drawings?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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It is believed (by some) that the great murals were created by a race of giants who lived on the peninsula before the Cochimí Indians the Spanish
interacted with from the 1500's to the 1800's.
It is possible that it was an early advanced race or tribe that had time to kick back and paint between hunts. The Cochimí that the Jesuits interacted
with were pretty primitive and ate bugs, the second harvest, swallowed meat on a string only to pull it out and pass it to the next guy to have a
taste... None would be seen doing anything artistic.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19918
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The Cochimí that the Jesuits interacted with were pretty primitive and ate bugs, the second harvest, swallowed meat on a string only to pull it out
and pass it to the next guy to have a taste... None would be seen doing anything artistic. |
the jesuits were so narrow-minded that they saw the world through a pinhole,... jesuit recollections like those above are mostly hogwash.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
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Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Baja California Rock Art Dated to 7,500 Years Ago
John Roach
for National Geographic News
July 17, 2003
The giant rock art murals that grace the walls of hundreds of shelters and caves found in the hardscrabble hills of the high sierra in Baja California
Sur, Mexico, date back as far as 7,500 years ago, according to data from an ongoing study of the area.
The ancient dates for the paintings cast little light on the mystery of who made them and why, but it suggests that whoever the painters were they
came well before the Aztecs established their culture in central Mexico in the 12th century A.D.
"Once we did the dating and got to know how old they are, we were surprised by their antiquity because they look so fresh, so well preserved," said
Alan Watchman, a geoscientist and Australian Research Fellow at the Australian National University in Canberra and co-leader of the study team.
The paintings are of giant humans and animals, mostly done in red and black but also in white and yellow. The human figures are static, but the
animals bound in herd-like movement across the rock-wall canvases.
Harry Crosby, an author and Baja California rock art expert in La Jolla, California, suggests that the paintings might represent a sense of "us and
them" with the humans painted to depict how they dealt with each other in a static manner but with the animals as "food on the hoof."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/07/0717_030717_bajarockart.html
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The climate in the area was likely different 7,500 years ago and may have afforded the people time to make the paintings.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Igor, do we have any idea how many different indigenous people lived on this part of the continent?
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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The Lascaux paintings in France are said to be 32,000 years old. Primitive people had been making art for a long time before the period of occupation
of Baja by these mysterious people.
The production of "sacred" objects which require more of a culture's resources than seems justifiable is common even in more modern man. The book Ken
recommended suggests that it may have taken 100 man centuries to build a cathedral, yet it actually housed and sheltered no one! It isn't a stretch
for me to accept that Baja aboriginals might have gone to extraordinary efforts to decorate their own cathedrals.
[Edited on 4-21-2012 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Igor, do we have any idea how many different indigenous people lived on this part of the continent? |
No idea. In fact I'm learning from you guys. The links of windgirl and taco de baja have been very edifying. I am happy to read that all of these
sites are slowly being preserved for National Heritage. Unfortunately my cave is not within those boundaries. Hopefully, in some small way it will
arrest development that's scheduled through there. But I have little understanding in how such battles are fought, Anyway, it's just wishful thinking.
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windgrrl
Super Nomad
Posts: 1336
Registered: 9-2-2006
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http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/baja.html
...gives a brief description of indegenous tribes in Baja. If you "Google" Cochimi, a simple map of tribes pops up.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Igor, do we have any idea how many different indigenous people lived on this part of the continent? |
No idea. In fact I'm learning from you guys. The links of windgirl and taco de baja have been very edifying. I am happy to read that all of these
sites are slowly being preserved for National Heritage. Unfortunately my cave is not within those boundaries. Hopefully, in some small way it will
arrest development that's scheduled through there. But I have little understanding in how such battles are fought, Anyway, it's just wishful thinking.
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When the way comes to an end, then change. Having changed, you pass through.
~ I-Ching
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Gypsy Jan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4275
Registered: 1-27-2004
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Mood: Depends on which way the wind is blowing
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Ancient Mysteries and First Civilizations
I recommend the novel, "The Charlemagne Pursuit" by Steve Berry.
It offers a lot to think about.
http://tinyurl.com/6t8reoe
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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these articles only explore fairly recent history. I was thinking of long before the 1500's.
| Quote: | Originally posted by windgrrl
http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/baja.html
...gives a brief description of indegenous tribes in Baja. If you "Google" Cochimi, a simple map of tribes pops up.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Igor, do we have any idea how many different indigenous people lived on this part of the continent? |
No idea. In fact I'm learning from you guys. The links of windgirl and taco de baja have been very edifying. I am happy to read that all of these
sites are slowly being preserved for National Heritage. Unfortunately my cave is not within those boundaries. Hopefully, in some small way it will
arrest development that's scheduled through there. But I have little understanding in how such battles are fought, Anyway, it's just wishful thinking.
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bufeo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 793
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Member Is Offline
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I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread (with the exceptions that are probably obvious). Thank you again SJJ for starting it.
Allen R
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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For some reason my mind keeps going to this goya painting.
It, of course, has nothing to do with the subject matter. Except that the raised arms generate the same tension and vulnerability I feel in the mural.
[Edited on 4-21-2012 by Skipjack Joe]
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yukonrob
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 2-23-2011
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The pictures remind me (alot) of Mesa del Carmen, very very similar.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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I wonder if this is not a "natural" pose for a human in some form of stress or transport. I had never thought much about "wringing of hands" until one
day I watched a slow motion mini-disaster occur in front of me. As the 4800 pounds of shelving came off the lift gate and into my neighbor
contractor's brand new store front, I realized I had been wringing my hands in helplessness. It was an involuntary reaction in front of my crew, I
assure you.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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